0-100 times wrong?
- Thread starter blkvzgo
- 71 comments
- 6,802 views
- 298
- Ghost_Drift1
- 298
- Ghost_Drift1
I have never ever seen a car mag test a car and it have a lower time. I watched a episode of 5th gear where one on the presenters. Got all the 0-100 times of a load of cars and did a test to see what there times realy where. Only the Ariel Atom got within 200th of a second to its time. and that is because when they rang Ariel, they told 5th gear that to test the 0-100 time of there car, they just lunged it down the road of the industrial estate where they build them. All the other company VW, Porche, BMW, Lotus. all said the same thing when they phoned them and asked why there cars dont hit 100km in the time they said it does. " Are cars are tested in a controled enviroment" basicaly meaning on a Dyno.
It realy isnt a conspiracy. 0-100 times are allways lower on paper than they are in real life.
What RPM you REV your eninge from? I think people in these tests usually dump the clutch at 3.5k to 4.5k RMP. In GT5P we all dump clutch at MAX RPM... too much wheel spin..
As well, it is really hard to do the 0-100 in real life with same car then what the official 0-100 states. You always get it second slower. Example, buy a new mustang GT, on their website it states you can go in low's 5.2, in real life, I doubt you can do that.
Usually, on what I know, Car tests , very by .5 seconds from magazine to magazine. Cold, heat, factors does make a difference.
- 2,073
- Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- mrvajj
- 4,555
- Australia
are you sure? I don't think so because sometimes in car test, the car is heavy and this effects the acceleration. yes, a heavier car will perform less well on a dyno but not as bad as a real 0-60. A veyron then should do 0-60 in half a second - and it doesn't.
I think when car manufacturers test cars, they take them to a place where the air is clean, the car has been warmed up and the moisture is just right.
- 298
- Ghost_Drift1
The first part of your post made no sence. It doesnt matter how heavy a car is on a dyno! All the car has to do is spin the dyno. But the part about the Veyron, it wont do it 1/2 a second due to gearing and the engine having to turn the wheels through its drive train, I.e Flywheel then gear box then drive shafts, then through the Diffs and finaly the power gets to the wheels.
It is not rocket science. Car manufacturers calculate their 0-100 times on dynos. when you try to do it in real life your times are off because you have to worry about traction, wind resistance, the weight of the car, and lots of other things that reduce the 0-100 times.
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- 7,582
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I forgot to mention that gear changes are slow on a lot of cars (like the F430 and 599)
The accuracy of the physics can't be an opinion, unless you mean that you think it's accurate enough, in which case I disagree.
To get the 599 to 60 in less than 4 seconds on S2 tires (which are too grippy laterally to be the car's real tires) I had to launch on an incline, if I tried it on flat ground, it was about 4 seconds (unless I used 2nd gear, which gets to 60 in about 3.8 sec). The 599 should break 4 seconds easily.
I also tested the Viper SRT-10, a car with no launch control or shifting before 60 mph
actual 0-60 in 3.9 sec (average Motor Trend time, see Speeding! 2003 aritle on website)
In game on N3- 4.7
In game on S2- 3.8
It might look like the physics are correct because of the S2 times, but the fact is that S2 tires hold way more lateral grip than the tires do on the real cars. Since traction is distributed almost circularly between all directions, this means that something is wrong with the physics. Either longitudinal grip is too low, or lateral grip is too high.
The accuracy of the physics can't be an opinion, unless you mean that you think it's accurate enough, in which case I disagree.
To get the 599 to 60 in less than 4 seconds on S2 tires (which are too grippy laterally to be the car's real tires) I had to launch on an incline, if I tried it on flat ground, it was about 4 seconds (unless I used 2nd gear, which gets to 60 in about 3.8 sec). The 599 should break 4 seconds easily.
I also tested the Viper SRT-10, a car with no launch control or shifting before 60 mph
actual 0-60 in 3.9 sec (average Motor Trend time, see Speeding! 2003 aritle on website)
In game on N3- 4.7
In game on S2- 3.8
It might look like the physics are correct because of the S2 times, but the fact is that S2 tires hold way more lateral grip than the tires do on the real cars. Since traction is distributed almost circularly between all directions, this means that something is wrong with the physics. Either longitudinal grip is too low, or lateral grip is too high.
- 1,915
I've noticed the Audi R8 is way too fast in the game.
- 4,555
- Australia
Yes I know the weight makes no difference on a dyno - sorry if I didn't convey the message properly. The point I was getting to was the point you made - all the car does on the dyno is spin it's wheels - and usually after the engine power goes through diffs and gearbox, it loses 25% of it.
If car manufacturers simply tested the car on the dyno for a 0-100 time, these times would be heavily exagerated - this was why I was saying the veyron (with supposivly now 750WHP after drivetrain) could spin the dyno to a virtual 100 in about half a second.
Car magazines have tested veyrons to 100 in 2.8 - 3.0 seconds on the road - not the dyno. I have been reading car magazines ever since I was 3 and this is the first time this topic has been raised.
- 133
- GTP_blkvzgo
I think it's a combination of high lateral grip and low longitudinal grip that makes the tyre modelling feel flawed, although I don't think it would be too difficult to fix for the full game.
There was also one more thing I noticed when doing time trials with recommended stock tyres (I don't have permanent internet connection on my PS3 so that's just about the only thing of interest I can do) is that front wheel drive cars are unwilling to lift-off oversteer, the only way you can throw the back end out a little is doing a scandinavian flick, so I thought the lateral grip was a little too high. Combine this with the fact that the cars don't accelerate as fast as they should (and it's not just the Integra, as Exorcet pointed out), there you have it - too high lateral grip, too low longitudinal grip.
- 454
- Australia
sorry my ill-informed friend......but your just plain wrong. Controlled enviroments for manufacturers means, their own testing facility with the car set up with optimum traction (ie tyre presures, just enough fuel in the tank,perfect weather conditions,maybe a stickier track surface etc) and a test driver who knows his **** and has practiced 0-100 thousands of times.
These attempt would be done with no changes to the driveline (gear ratios,exotic fuels) or tampering with the car.
Wieght has everything to do with the way a car acheives 0-100, from tractive effort being unsettled from the torque twist in the chassis to the way the rear suspention squats (front suspension lifts) under hard acceleration.
A dyno cannot replicate this.
You must be confusing this with fuel consumption testing (which is done on a dyno for obvious reasons!).
- 23,800
- Philippines
Too right. "Controlled conditions" always mean a test track, which usually has better traction than the street. This makes manufacturer times faster than what you can actually do on the road.
And because these times are done by manufacturer test drivers, they're mostly non-destructive, which is why they're slower than times set by some US magazines, which are done on the drag strip, often with a destructive clutch-slip launch or a a high-revving clutch-dump. Dumping the clutch hurts the car, but some manufacturer times are clutch-dumped, others are achieved with low launch rpms. Slipping the clutch, on the other hand, fries it completely after just a few launches, but some hacks don't really care... not their cars.
I find that dumping the clutch, you can either match manufacturer times or exceed them by a few tenths.
And launching on a drag-strip, as US magazines do, gives you better traction out of the hole. You can launch at higher revs, hook up faster, and get some amazing 60 foot times due to the extra layers of sticky rubber on the tarmac from numerous passes by other draggers.
And when you get to Car and Driver... they apply SAE corrections to all their times. Which makes them useless except for comparison to other Car and Driver times.
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You can't replicate these launches in-game because:
1. There's no way to accurately modulate the clutch without a force-feedback clutch.
2. You can't "feel" wheelspin.
3. You can't adjust tire pressure. Best launches are with tires at stock pressure or lower (better hookup). People complain of a lack of longitudinal grip versus lateral grip. Duh. This is because the tires are modelled based on what you might expect on the racetrack... higher pressures for less sidewall flex. Which is exactly what the others are describing. For drag racing, you want less pressure, for better hook up.
4. There is no "dragstrip" in GT5P. In other words, you won't find a "rubbered up" launch area. I don't know if PD replicates the extra grip on the racing line at real life tracks like Suzuka, but that's not going to help you on the straights.
5. Without a dragstrip, you're relying on hand-timing. Which isn't the most accurate way of measuring 0-60 times... not by a long-shot.
And because these times are done by manufacturer test drivers, they're mostly non-destructive, which is why they're slower than times set by some US magazines, which are done on the drag strip, often with a destructive clutch-slip launch or a a high-revving clutch-dump. Dumping the clutch hurts the car, but some manufacturer times are clutch-dumped, others are achieved with low launch rpms. Slipping the clutch, on the other hand, fries it completely after just a few launches, but some hacks don't really care... not their cars.
I find that dumping the clutch, you can either match manufacturer times or exceed them by a few tenths.
And launching on a drag-strip, as US magazines do, gives you better traction out of the hole. You can launch at higher revs, hook up faster, and get some amazing 60 foot times due to the extra layers of sticky rubber on the tarmac from numerous passes by other draggers.
And when you get to Car and Driver... they apply SAE corrections to all their times. Which makes them useless except for comparison to other Car and Driver times.
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You can't replicate these launches in-game because:
1. There's no way to accurately modulate the clutch without a force-feedback clutch.
2. You can't "feel" wheelspin.
3. You can't adjust tire pressure. Best launches are with tires at stock pressure or lower (better hookup). People complain of a lack of longitudinal grip versus lateral grip. Duh. This is because the tires are modelled based on what you might expect on the racetrack... higher pressures for less sidewall flex. Which is exactly what the others are describing. For drag racing, you want less pressure, for better hook up.
4. There is no "dragstrip" in GT5P. In other words, you won't find a "rubbered up" launch area. I don't know if PD replicates the extra grip on the racing line at real life tracks like Suzuka, but that's not going to help you on the straights.
5. Without a dragstrip, you're relying on hand-timing. Which isn't the most accurate way of measuring 0-60 times... not by a long-shot.
- 2,073
- Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- mrvajj
I don't know of a magazine that does 60 ft. times either, but I think the point was that if you could see the 60 ft. times the would be quick because of all the rubber (correct me if that's not the point niky). One thing that I always found interesting is that a lot of cars redline at 62 MPH in 2nd. I heard that it is so they don't have to shift again, which would add to the 0-60 time that they advertise. Also the only car mag I know of that doesn't adjust times to what they think it would be in perfect conditions is Sport Compact Car, which tells what the conditions are.
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