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If you guys don't see the difference between being beaten by Alain Prost or George Russell than it is probably time to end the discussion.
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2024 Formula 1 Drivers threadFormula 1
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MagpieRacer
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Well it can't be Alonso as he was beaten by Hamilton and Button in the same machinery. Can't be Button as he was beaten by Hamilton and Alonso in equal machinery. Can't be Kimi Raikkonen as he was beaten by Coulthard and Vettel in equal machinery. Can't be Verstappen as he was beaten by Ricciardo in equal machinery. Can't be Senna as he was beaten by Prost in equal machinery. Can't be Prost as he was beaten by Senna in equal machinery. Can't be Fangio as he was beaten by Farina in equal machinery.
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Why do you keep saying Lewis beat Alonso? They finished equal in points despite Lewis being Ron Dennis' special project since childhood and McLaren being British. The odds were firmly stacked against Fernando in that situation. You guys are so chauvinistic, even if the points standing is a tie you give the win to the British guy by default lol.
Also, in which universe did Ricciardo beat Verstappen?
Guys, it is allowed to be "LH44" fans. I understand it. Just don't expect the rest of the world to automatically join you guys in proclaming him to be the goat. Because the fact is that he did nothing special.
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It's not really a tie if the tiebreaking criteria put Alonso behind. Also what other rookie did that to the defending champion? Name them.
You still haven't told us who the GOAT is by your one-statistic criteria
Roo
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No. Nobody's the greatest of all time. If you think someone is, name them or declare that nobody is, otherwise you're just trolling.
Quite probably.
Yet - and I say this as someone who isn't a Lewis Hamilton fan - you're still trolling.
If your issue is with the press, take it up with them. But you won't, because you know they'll ignore your - wait for it - trolling.
You make this too easy. Try harder.
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Largely because he did. Hamilton places ahead of Alonso in the official 2007 season F1 standings, which are based on the traditional "countback" method.
With an equal number of points, the next ranking criterion is wins. They had an equal number of wins, so the next ranking criterion is second-place finishes - which Hamilton outscores Alonso on by 5 to 4.
Similarly, one of Senna's championships saw him outscored across the season by Prost. In official standings, Senna won.
The question remains though: is it required for British people to be?
McLaren
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It's not controversial, just indicates you cherry-pick a stat that doesn't even hold weight.
Button & Lewis spent the 2010-2012 seasons together, with Lewis finishing ahead 2-1. Lewis defeated the reigning World Champion in 2010 in the same car.
Nico & Lewis spent the 2013-2016 seasons together, with Lewis finishing ahead 3-1 & his loss to Nico was by just 5 points coming off 4 straight wins; Nico would then retire.
George & Lewis spent the 2022-2024 seasons together, with Lewis finishing behind 1-2. It should be noted however, Lewis spent the 1st season doing a lot of testing. He would then go on to finish in 3rd the following season behind the Red Bulls that won everything but Singapore. This past season was the only indication of Lewis' slipping, although it became widely known then that he was leaving.
I don't know where you get Charles from. Charles has only beaten Lewis twice in his career in the standings & the Ferrari was unquestionably the better car than the Merc.
Your "Well you guys are just a 'x and y' and it's okay to be wrong" attitude is pretty telling & ironic, though.
MagpieRacer
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Last time I checked Lewis finished P2 in 2007 and Fernando P3 unless I'm missing something?
Ricciardo beat Verstappen in 2016 and 2017. By 32 points I must add, a proper thrashing.
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"Nobody is the greatest of all time". Are you a communist?
This is a F1 forum and the hottest topic at the moment is Lewis' transfer to Ferrari. What else are we supposed to talk about here? How am I "trolling".
"If you don't think Lewis Hamilton is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time, you are trolling". Insane.
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The 2016 & 2017 Formula One universes.
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Now who is trolling? Verstappen started 2016 at Toro Rosso. By the way, I never said Verstappen is the goat. I am not blinded by chauvinism like some of you guys.
MagpieRacer
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2017? Full RB season, also only did 4 races at STR in 2016. I know you never said that, I was answering your question with the respective universes that DR beat MV.
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You know how you just made up a quote and reacted as if someone actually said it? That's called a "strawman" - making up an argument nobody made in order to attack it - and is about as bad-faith as it gets. Although given your prior lack of engagement in the thread, it's on-form.
Pretty hard to draw any other conclusion than the fact you're just posting junk to get negative reactions from people, which is pretty much the definition of trolling.
McLaren
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Communism might be a word too much for you to be using b/c you seem lost on what the word means....
An argument no one said. Trolling is trying to make a statement based on easily disproved statistics or flat out incorrect (Charles & Lewis being in the same car) & then trying to counter with, "I get it guys, you're all Lewis fans. It's ok to find out I'm the smart guy in the room".
You've been here since October trying this line of posting? Damn, may not even make it to the season.
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"Nobody said Lewis Hamilton is the goat" yet I am getting all this backlash for saying he is not the goat. Okay then.
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As has been asked many times, in your opinion, who is?
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So if "nobody is the greatest" is a lie, then who is? Also who has actually said that last line?
At this point it clearly is trolling. This discussion has asked for you to back up your claims with counter points. As you say it's an F1 forum and as such we wish to allow people to say things like your first point and then back it up when questioned. So far you have doubled down on a take many users say is bad, made false or random claims about other drivers all while ignoring plenty of extenuating factors that a Formula 1 season and career has and also ignored answering a pretty fundamental question which would help us understand your reasoning.
Formula 1 has had so many different eras with different factors and career longevities. Lewis Hamilton is the "Statistical Greatest of All Time" so far.
The aim of Formula 1 from a driver's point of view is to score Pole Positions, Podiums, Fastest Laps, Race Wins and Championship titles. Lewis Hamilton leads, or is joint top, of 4/5 of those. Who else comes close outside of Michael Schumacher? And if you don't want to accept Hamilton is number 1, then he is number 2, a far cry from the...712th I think you are trying to claim he is?
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No, you're getting backlash for making stuff up, failing to engage, cherry-picking statistics, ignoring statistics, strawmanning, and general bad-faith posting.
It's okay to say Hamilton isn't the greatest driver of all time. Personally I think he's well in the conversation for it, but there will only ever be at-best broad consensus as to who is rather than an objective one - which is not communism (another bizarre one from you), but realism.
Odd nobody's mentioned Jim Clark yet, though he was beaten twice by Innes Ireland.
MagpieRacer
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You're getting backlash for not backing anything up, claiming that very obviously great drivers are "overrated" or "nothing special", haven't stated your criteria for the greatest nor thrown a name out there. Plus the blatant trolling.
AshenGraey
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I don't think anyone here is proclaiming Lewis to be the goat. I think anyone who has watched F1 long enough can see that he has done enough to be considered one of the greatest in F1, if not the greatest, but you are completely disregarding all of that. You say he is overrated, he's been beaten by his own teammates and he's nothing special. That's been your argument the whole time so yeah we also know that it is allowed to be an LH44 hater and that's ok. Just don't take away the guy's achievements just because you hate him.
The point still remains though as you've yet to answer the questions that have been asked....if Lewis did nothing special then who has? And who is the greatest of all time by your own metrics?
The point still remains though as you've yet to answer the questions that have been asked....if Lewis did nothing special then who has? And who is the greatest of all time by your own metrics?
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The whole point I am trying to make is that statistics don't paint the whole picture. By the way, what did I "make up"? It is a fact that Lewis won six of his seven titles in a extremely dominant Mercedes, losing another title along the way to Nico Rosberg. The only title he won outside of Mercedes should have gone to Felipe Massa if Renault didn't cheat in Singapore. These are facts guys, I am sorry.
By the way, English is not my native language. Why don't you guys try to hold a discussion in a foreign language and see if you get all your points across.
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Certainly not if you ignore the inconvenient ones.
As you've now rediscovered the capability of replying to my posts, you can answer - for the third time of asking - if it's required to be a fan of Lewis Hamilton if you are from the UK.
Moot point. The site's required language is English and you have chosen to engage.
If you're worried about your points being taken out of context due to translation issues then perhaps you should engage with that in mind, rather than making up quotes and ascribing them to people who never said anything of the sort.
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It is also factual that the FIA ignored its regulations in 2021 to take a title from Hamilton that's the facts I'm sorry. It doesn't change the fact that 2021 correctly says "Max Verstappen" on the Drivers Trophy. You have brought up the 2008 point twice now and been rebuffed for it.
Now for the 4th time of asking, who is the GOAT and why do all the other statistics that make Hamilton the GOAT not count?
Now for the 4th time of asking, who is the GOAT and why do all the other statistics that make Hamilton the GOAT not count?
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McLaren
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As was already brought up to you: It was 1 of their 4 seasons together & Nico immediately left the sport. How is that an argument against Lewis? Nico is the same guy who beat Schumy all 3 seasons, but there's zero reason to hold that against Michael's greatness.
If those are the "facts" that discounts 1 of Lewis' titles, then Lewis' title count is still 7 after the controversy in 2021.
Running to, "English isn't my 1st language" ain't holding water here. You've had no problem using your English to boast about how everyone's just a fanboy for Lewis & you're just too smart for everyone.
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Why do you keep dodging it? And it's not rhetorical.
Irrelevant ad hominem - your latest bad-faith posting style.
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I'm literally asking you a straightforward yes/no question. It's not rhetorical in any way, and you are dodging it.
Irrelevant appeal to authority.
