2024 Formula 1 Drivers threadFormula 1

[Jimlaad43]

You can't say Michael Schumacher is the GOAT. He got beaten by Nelson Piquet and Nico Rosberg when they were teammates, so they're better champions! He also got beaten by Irvine twice and If you don't see the difference between being beaten by Ayrton Senna or Eddie Irvine than it is probably time to end the discussion.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Tiago Monteiro was never outscored by a teammate and he scored a podium with the worst car on the grid. He wasn't handpicked by a dominant team to have a car built around him and he still finished ahead of his teammates 100% of the time in the WDC.

🐐ed.

Surely the GOAT becomes Giancarlo Fisichella? He won a race in a terrible Jordan car and then had the decency to not win the Drivers title when he had the fastest car, because apparently those championships don't count either.

🐐 🐐 🐐

 

[Liquid]

He won a race in a terrible Jordan car

And was so modest he didn't even accept victory that day.

 

[Jimlaad43]

And was so modest he didn't even accept victory that day.

Then burned the evidence afterwards. True GOAT behaviour only Pastor Maldonado could come close to

 

[Saidur_Ali]

"Nobody said Lewis Hamilton is the goat" yet I am getting all this backlash for saying he is not the goat. Okay then.

Statistically he can claim that title though, can you name anyone who has achieved more in F1? This is a matter of fact. However, you can have a opinion that Taki Inoue is the GOAT but that is a matter of opinion not backed up by any facts. Everyone is entitled to their subjective opinion, it is odd though you contradict your points you make against Lewis as it can be countered even to a greater extent to drivers you hold in higher regard. Who is the driver you rate the highest then?

Anyway, amazing that a driver past his prime as you say, managed to win two races last season and ended the season with the fastest race stint far ahead of anyone else. Great compliment in a way, that you consider him overrated that even when he is beyond his best, he can still set the best pace in F1. There are levels to being a 🐐.

Will be interesting to see how Lewis fares in Ferrari. I think it all depends on how well suited the car is to his style and how well Charles can perform to his strengths. Ferrari seem to be only team really coming up with like a whole new car for this year with big performance gains hinted at so hopefully it delivers the performance. Maybe it will reset Charles experience in the team advantage too as car could behave quite different but both should be more than talented enough to get up to speed quickly if the car is well-behaved.

Main car weakness was high-speed corners last year so if they can address that and add to previous strengths, they could have a great chance at the constructors and drivers title. McLaren and Red Bull sound confident in what they are doing though so going to be an exciting season with all the different driver line-ups and teams will be probably be limiting any upgrades, so starting off strong will be a big advantage on whoever gets it right.

only Pastor Maldonado could come close to

Meh, I replaced his seat.

 

[SPDN Stefano]

Guys. I MIGHT have gone a little bit overboard arguing my point today. Having said that, I genuinely do not believe Lewis Hamilton is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time. Neither do I think 40 year old Lewis will turn out to be an upgrade compared to Sainz and Leclerc. Is that okay with you guys?

 

[Jimlaad43]

All we would like to know is who DO you think is the greatest? We wish to test your metric and understand where the conversation has started from.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Guys. I MIGHT have gone a little bit overboard arguing my point today. Having said that, I genuinely do not believe Lewis Hamilton is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time. Neither do I think 40 year old Lewis will turn out to be an upgrade compared to Sainz and Leclerc. Is that okay with you guys?

You are free to think what you want. Will your opinion change if Lewis wins a title in a dominant way this year? Regardless of how well he does, he brings a lot of know-how and aura to the team. That could attract more engineers and they might work that little bit better together giving an edge that could make all the difference like he managed in some of his Mercedes years.

 

[SPDN Stefano]

In my humble opinion, Michael Schumacher is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time. So many brilliant drives. The guy damn near lapped the whole field in a mediocre car in Spain 1996:



YES, he 'lost' to Rosberg in a midfield car after he came back out of retirement at 41 years old due to pure boredom. I am aware of this. But holding that against him is like saying Michael Jordan isn't the GOAT because of his time at the Washington Wizards. People get old, so does Michael Schumacher.

 

[Pupik]

Well, Vettel is also nothing special. He was better than Mark Webber and that was it. Racked up a bunch of titles in a Adrian Newey car with a bad teammate.

Conveniently, all of the same above applies with Max Verstappen.

I'm guessing we'll never know who the GOAT is...

Juan Manuel Fangio is the undeniably safe answer. There's no "yeah, but what about ___" with anything he'd accomplished other than having to add his non-championship wins to his totals.

 

[Veinz]

Conveniently, all of the same above applies with Max Verstappen.

Except Verstappen has messed up the careers of quite a few team mates so far, and he's always in the conversation as the best driver in the field. Even when Vettel was winning his titles, everyone knew there were better drivers in the other teams.

 

[SPDN Stefano]

Fangio? Barely any drivers showed up to all the races during those years. Different times for sure.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Verstappen is well on the way to being in the GOAT conversation, but he needs a few more title first which takes time he just hasn't had yet.

At the moment the Hamilton or Schumacher debate is basically the F1 equivalent of Messi or Ronaldo. Both are the greatest and can be designated as such depending on whatever criteria you choose and you can't have a good debate over it because fans of one or the other will shove their opinion down your throat asich as possible and do everything to discredit the other's obvious record, talent and prowess.

Thankfully the Messi/Ronaldo debate was ended in December 2022 in Messi's favour. If Lewis gets a title in a Ferrari - undisputed 8>7 and only driver other than Fangio to win a title with three Constructors? Then it's game over and Hamilton would be the undisputed GOAT untile someone else comes and takes it over. Max would have a very good chance to do just that...

 

[Greycap]

Hamilton is the most successful ever, no doubt, but that tends to happen when having a championship capable car for ten seasons - something nobody else has ever had. Not to mention seven of them with a team mate that was kept at bay with either race strategy (Kovalainen, a full fuel load in qualifyings) or "Valtteri, it's James". After he lost both advantages Russell revealed him to be just an above average driver, very good, but not dominant by any means. He's lost to far too many team mates to really be the GOAT.

My pick would be Alain Prost. Four championships alone makes him a legend in the sport of course and they all came in the face of very hard opposition, but the only team mates he ever lost to over a season are Niki Lauda by half a point in 1984, and Senna. In fact Prost is the only team mate to ever have beaten Senna over a season which is pretty good proof of his status.

 

[Pupik]

Fangio? Barely any drivers showed up to all the races during those years.

He raced with five others whom eventually became champions: Ascari, Hawthorn, Brabham, Phil Hill, and Graham Hill. And of course, against his teammate Farina, who'd won the championship before him. Races were longer, cars and circuits much less safe, and while sometimes grids had 13-15 starters, there were also several fields with 25-30 entries. And they were driving for much smaller financial rewards...

...if you need some perspective, that's Aryton Senna raising Fangio's hand.

 

[McLaren]

Hamilton is the most successful ever, no doubt, but that tends to happen when having a championship capable car for ten seasons - something nobody else has ever had. Not to mention seven of them with a team mate that was kept at bay with either race strategy (Kovalainen, a full fuel load in qualifyings) or "Valtteri, it's James". After he lost both advantages Russell revealed him to be just an above average driver, very good, but not dominant by any means. He's lost to far too many team mates to really be the GOAT.

Spent 1 season working on the car than winning, 3rd best driver behind the Red Bulls, last season revealed he lost enthusiasm & was out the door anyway for Mercedes.


In more positive news, Angela Cullen looks to have returned to Lewis' side.

 

[Terronium-12]

This is exactly what Reddit discussion threads look like.

Spent 1 season working on the car than winning, 3rd best driver behind the Red Bulls, last season revealed he lost enthusiasm & was out the door anyway for Mercedes.


In more positive news, Angela Cullen looks to have returned to Lewis' side.

Look at Fred's face.

He knows he cooked hard. And with Angela back by Hamilton's side, who knows how much better things are going to be from hereon. Not much longer to find out either...

 

[Famine]

I MIGHT have gone a little bit overboard arguing my point today.

No "might" about it. Your abusive behaviour was entirely unnecessary, and some contrition and apologies would be considerably better than this.

Edit: lol

In my humble opinion, Michael Schumacher is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time. So many brilliant drives. The guy damn near lapped the whole field in a mediocre car in Spain 1996:

His stats are extremely inflated because of the fact that...

... Ferrari ...

... were in a league of their own for many years.

Of course, Schumacher already had a world title with another team and came into a team not on a good streak and helped turn it into a dominant force.

Waaaaaait a minute...

 

[Pupik]

This is exactly what Reddit discussion threads look like.

(As an aside, I'm always pleasantly surprised how civilized r/NASCAR is in comparison for discussion about its past.)

 

[Terronium-12]

(As an aside, I'm always pleasantly surprised how civilized r/NASCAR is in comparison for discussion about its past.)

Honestly, not the first time I've heard this.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Well, how does "the GOAT" lose to Button, Rosberg and Russell in the same car? He is only the goat to people who mindlessly look at statistics. For years it was literally impossible for him to finish lower than P2 because of his car.

Of course he is a good driver and he has a huge amount of marketing value. But the press is acting like the Messiah has arrived and Ferrari's troubles are over. There is no way 'past his prime Lewis' is going to be this huge upgrade compared to Sainz and Leclerc, if at all. The drivers were not the problem at Ferrari.

 

[-Fred-]

Well it was a terrible day to have eyes and the ability to read.

 

[Fezzik]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-drivers-who-swear-could-get-fines-and-points-deductions-say-new-fia-guidelines/10690725/

Oh this’ll go well. They’d probably also get fined if they took a vow of silence so maybe just play the yes/no game instead.

 

[AshenGraey]

Can they get rid of MBS? Cause I feel like they should!

 

[Famine]

Can they get rid of MBS? Cause I feel like they should!

€10,000 fine for you!

Article 12.2.1.f ISC: Any words, deeds or writings that have caused moral injury or loss to the FIA, its bodies, its members or its executive officers, and more generally on the interest of motor sport and on the values defended by the FIA.