230 Years Later: Independence Day

[YSSMAN]

Today is officially the 230th birthday of the United States of America, as we officially signed the American Declaration of Independence all those years ago. Our independence from England was something in which our ancestors (or at least, some of our ancestors) fought long and hard for, and on this day, I ask you to think about the past and how times have changed over the years.

I'm interested to hear thoughts of not only Americans on our past and our future, but from Europeans as well. I often wonder how Europe, in particular England feels about the situation, and if France recognizes the American Revolution as a catalyst to the French Revolution as they teach us in America.

Thoughts?

...Oh, and Happy Independence Day!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Yeah, this place is a lot less free thanks to douche-bag control freak idiots with nothing else better to do, and greedy sue-happy worthless bastards.

But, it still beats living in France. Or Iran. Or Turkey, Or...

 

[TheCracker]

I'm interested to hear thoughts of not only Americans on our past and our future, but from Europeans as well. I often wonder how Europe, in particular England feels about the situation, and if France recognizes the American Revolution as a catalyst to the French Revolution as they teach us in America.

Actually in England Independence Day passes us by completely, apart from the odd mention at the end of the news occasionally. I don't even think that many Brits even see the connection the celebration has to do with our country. As a former 'empire' gains and losses come with the territory i suppose.

When i was younger my best friend was an American lad whose dad worked on the local 'NSA' base - Menwith Hill http://www.daelnet.co.uk/features/menwithhill/ (excuse the slightly anti-US tone to this site - it was the best link i could find)
Which is a small slice of civilian USA on British soil, i say civilian since there is absolutely no sign of military personnel there at all. Most Americans working on the base also lived there and sent their kids to the school there. My friends family lived 'off base' and the kids went to my school. When it came to July 4th the base held a huge day-long celebration party which i went to many times and absolutely loved it, it was fantastic - especially since it was so American there, yet in the middle of North Yorkshire.

 

[Roo09511]

Well first let me just say (regarding the previous post) "Holy **** Tiger Woods would be in heaven there...


Moving on.... Yeah, our country is being run like crap at the moment, but that's not much of a problem since this douchebag has only 2 more years. lol

 

[Kent]

Just want to say happy 4th!

Also, I want to say to all the world.
Regardless of your celebration time or day, I hope all of us can enjoy a day of nationalism.

Best wishes to all!

 

[ledhed]

As I drink my beer and eat my burgers I cant help but reflect on all the poor British dudes that lost such a wonderfull colony . well it takes a lot of beers to reflect...sometimes I eat pie after such meanigfull reflections.....then we blow stuff up and drink more beer because thats what independence is all about .Lots of pie and beer and its legal to shoot stuff and blow things up !

 

[YSSMAN]

Hotdogs, Bratwurst, Hamburgers, Steak, and BBQ Chicken are all on the menu tonight for my extended family cookout. What a great way to celebrate, added to the fact that we will be attempting to set our lawn on fire with those "dangerous" fireworks. Too bad we didn't go down to Indiana this year, as I have an itch for firecrackers right about now. Stupid Michigan fireworks laws...

Its been weird how the 4th of July worked out this year. Celebrations started last Friday and will go on through today, as I belive that is one of the longest celebrations I've had in a while.

Funny enough, we plan on wrapping up the night by watching some films made by our past overlords. Monty Python marathon anyone? Maybe I should switch that out for The Patriot and Independence Day...

 

[Poverty]

well know I understand what independence day is all about, us brits couldnt care less about. We dont really give a stuff about our won public holidays.

You guys seem to be enjoying your celebrations though, on another forum people are saying that its a BS day but atleast they get to have a doss.

 

[Delirious]

Not to intentionally turn this into a religious thread but...

What is your guys thought on that some say we came from britian because of religious persecution and wanted to have freedom of religion?

In one sense we could celebrate independence day in that we have religious freedom

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not so sure of it being a celebration of religious freedom, as the date between the founding of Plymouth and the signing of the Declaration of Independence were nearly 160 years apart. But I can see where you are comming from, but I think the importance of that fact has really been lost in the whole history of the American Revolution.

Given that by the time the Revolution occoured, most of the anger twards England had more to do with taxation and other unfair government practices in which the American colonies had no influence in.

The Revolution's importance today, celebrated by Independence day, IMO, is more or less to not only honor the "birth" of the United States, but to honor the men and women who founded this country 230 years ago. Men such as George Washington, Samuel Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Jefferson, John Penn, John Handcock, etc are truely those who should be honored on this day, as it is because of their bravery that our courntry exists today.

I think of it, generally, as the glory of the small group of men overcoming the odds against what was not only the greatest millitary power in the world, but also the addition of German hired soldiers. Our tactics were adjusted often to meet the demands of war, and we (ironically) were nearly considered terrorists for our tendancies to hide and fight instead of following the standard waves of fighting.

A great summation of events can be found on the Wikipedia's American Revolution Page.

...But I've always wondered, do they teach about the American Revolution in schools in Europe?

 

[xXSilencerXx]

I have always wondered if the Brits care at all that we celebrate beating them in a war. I mean I don't hate Brits I usually like them except when some of them go into bashing the US but overall they seem to be kool people.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've always wondered about the differences in how parts of history are tought between the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. Thngs like the French-Indian War, American Revolution, French Revolution, War of 1812, Spanish-American War, World War I and II, etc are all tought around the world.

I would presume it would often be done to glorify the past of one's country, but when you are the losing nation (not to pick on anyone here), how do you go though that?

 

[Wolfe]

I've always wondered about the differences in how parts of history are tought between the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. Thngs like the French-Indian War, American Revolution, French Revolution, War of 1812, Spanish-American War, World War I and II, etc are all tought around the world.

I would presume it would often be done to glorify the past of one's country, but when you are the losing nation (not to pick on anyone here), how do you go though that?

Well, if you want to get somewhat of an idea of how they would go through that, remember that we haven't won every war we've been in...just look at what we're taught about Vietnam, and the way we're taught it.

 

[TheCracker]

I've always wondered about the differences in how parts of history are tought between the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. Thngs like the French-Indian War, American Revolution, French Revolution, War of 1812, Spanish-American War, World War I and II, etc are all tought around the world.

I would presume it would often be done to glorify the past of one's country, but when you are the losing nation (not to pick on anyone here), how do you go though that?

Like i said in my earlier post, as a former 'empire' wins and loses are all part of it. I really wouldn't like to guess how many wars Britain has been involved in during the past 230 years. If you count our part in UN 'peace keeping' battles there's been 5 in my life time. The American War of Independance is one of many, many wars that get teached at UK schools - it doesn't really hold the same value to us as it does to you guys (Americans)

Europe has such a history of war between it's nations that have shaped (and keeps reshaping) our countries and their identities, that wars with countries in other continents are much less significant.

 

[Poverty]

I would presume it would often be done to glorify the past of one's country, but when you are the losing nation (not to pick on anyone here), how do you go though that?

All I can remember from my history lessons is that the Brits got bored of chasing the tear aways so just left them to get on with it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I can't even remember being taught about the American war of Independance And I don't think it is on the GCSE curiculum either.

What you have to realise is is that the British history is much more expansive than the Americans. We have everything from the Romans to the Normans to worry about invasion wise. Then we have our bloody civil wars to be concerned of and then the less violoent political stuff before we even reach the history of America. And quite frankly that is bypassed as we skip straight to the Industrial revolution and WW2.

 

[wfooshee]

. . . many wars that get teached at UK schools . . .

Um what else get 'teached' at UK schools? Perhaps, I don't know, . . .English?

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Reminds me of an interview I saw on a local news program, where a high school student was asked her plans for higher education, local college or travel. Her reply was travel, because "You can't [pronounced caint] get no education in Bay County!" Apparently so.

On topic, though, I like the Independance Day celebrations, the family gets together for food from the grill, Grandma's cookies and cake, and a boat ride to watch fireworks from the bay. Fireworks over the water is a completely different experience than elsewhere, with no foliage to absorb the sounds, and the booms echoing off of every craft around you. The boat ramp afterwards is a bit of a hassle, though.

As for celebrating a war and the defeat of the parent country, I don't think that's what it's about. It's a celebration of an advancement to a new form of government, one with periodic overthrows built in. We don't like the program, we change it. Different parts of the government keep an eye on each other, as well. The idea, which works amazingly well, is that power is distributed among those doing the governing, no one person or entity holds an inordinate amount of authority. People whine, people gripe about this person or that person doing a lousy job, or calling them names (like douche-bag from an earlier post), but the system seems to work.

 

[YSSMAN]

What you have to realise is is that the British history is much more expansive than the Americans. We have everything from the Romans to the Normans to worry about invasion wise. Then we have our bloody civil wars to be concerned of and then the less violoent political stuff before we even reach the history of America. And quite frankly that is bypassed as we skip straight to the Industrial revolution and WW2.

Certainly so, given that American has been around for a fraction of most of Europe and Asia. Many Americans (including myself) are fascinated with the "old world" and it's history, given not only the size and variety in what has happened, but the overwhelming glory that so many countries have been able to live through.

Funny, I've always wanted to go to Europe to teach American history, but I don't know how well that would go over...

 

[Danoff]

As for celebrating a war and the defeat of the parent country, I don't think that's what it's about. It's a celebration of an advancement to a new form of government, one with periodic overthrows built in.

As symbolized by blowing stuff up.

 

[Sting]

Ignoring time zones as this might be late, but Happy Belated 4th July to the Americans. Now onto the topic of European opinion on this that YSSMAN has brought up and the reason I am replying.

For the most part, the British are unaware that July 4th relates to us in the way that it does and just assume it is an American holiday like normal.

I for one, WAS taught about the American Revolution because when I used to live in Germany from the age of 9-14/15 I went to an international english speaking school, where the majority of students and staff happened to be American. In the 'Humanities' subject I think it were, was a combination of Geography and History, and at one point we were taught about the American Revolution, and events that transpired during the time such as the Boston Tea Party.

So I guess I'm one of the Brits that knows more about the American Revolution than most in the country, and it didn't really bother me to learn about it. Strong willed countries tend to prefer independance, and fair enough. The Americans fought for their right to independance, died for what they believed in so I guess fair enough.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Funny, I've always wanted to go to Europe to teach American history, but I don't know how well that would go over...

There's certainly an interest for it in the UK. There are plenty of documentries aired, for sale and published about the American Civil war. And I have watched a few about the war of independance aswell.

 

[Swift]

This day is always very emotional for me. Because I'm an American and because I was born in our bicentenial year

As symbolized by blowing stuff up.

That's how we gained our independence isn't it?

 

[ledhed]

I thought it was from eating charred meat and drinking beer...then blowing things up .

 

[FoolKiller]

I thought it was from eating charred meat and drinking beer...then blowing things up .

So, not only did a bunch of farmers defeat a trained military but they did it while drunk? 👍 GO AMERICA!!!

 

[Roo09511]

lmao. What a Country.

 

[Kylehnat]

As symbolized by blowing stuff up.

As was said in the bottomless fountain of wisdom (The Simpsons):

"The M-320: Celebrate the independence of your country by blowing up a small part of it!"

 

[YSSMAN]

Too bad firecrackers are illegal in Michigan, as I would have liked to re-create WWII or Operation Iraqi Freedom with some old GI-Joe toys. My friends and I used to do that all summer long, often times destroying not only some GI-Joes, but also the green and tan army men.

 

[FoolKiller]

Too bad firecrackers are illegal in Michigan,

They're illegal in Kentucky too, but a quick jaunt across the border can solve that problem in a jiffy. Take I-65 to exit 0 where you will find Powder Keg Fireworks.

I guess if local authorities actually attempted to stop the illegal firing of fireworks this sort of thing wouldn't happen, but I was able to sit out back and watch multiple neighbors launching fireworks.

 

[Zrow]

We crossed the state border and bought a bunch of fireworks. It's not legal here, but even if someone does actually complain, the cops will usually just tell you to wait a little bit and then go ahead.

 

[YSSMAN]

We just drive two hours due south to Indiana where damn near everything is either A) Legal or B) Cheaper.

Firecrackers and M-80s are usually the weapons of choise, but every time you get home you realise you didn't buy enough.