30D vs D80

[skylineGTR_guy]

I've been looking at the canon 30D for quite some time now, but nikon's new D80 has me interested as well, its seems very similar to the higher end D200 there are very few differences. Plus the price on the D80 is lower! But the canon from what I hear has better ISO performance which is important. What good is megapixels when its full of noise?

side by side comparison:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...yside&cameras=canon_eos30d,nikon_d80&show=all

D80 with 18-55 F3.5-5.6 $1,099.95
30D with 18-55 F3.5-5.6 $1,309.95

however photokina is coming up soon, perhaps its best to wait for canon's response?

 

[35mm]

Just wait for a complete review on the D80.
Bear in mind that if the D80 is like the D50 in the noise department, that will stop being a problem for Nikons, since noise in the D50 is very low and I don't see why Nikon won't do the same with the D80.
Also, let's see if the new kit lens (18-135mm) is as good as the 18-70mm was. If so, I think the D80 is the best choice (with a 18-200mm VR it would be even better...).
As for the new Canon (400D?), I guess you'll know its specs before you can get your hands on a D80.

Bear in mind that I am a sucker for Nikons.

 

[speedy_2]

Both are sweet cameras. But I'm liking the Timelapse recording feature of the D80. I'd be interested in trying that out.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Both are sweet cameras. But I'm liking the Timelapse recording feature of the D80. I'd be interested in trying that out.

The 30D is the timelapse capable one not the D80 but you need a pc and usb cable to do it, no idea why

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Just wait for a complete review on the D80.
Bear in mind that if the D80 is like the D50 in the noise department, that will stop being a problem for Nikons, since noise in the D50 is very low and I don't see why Nikon won't do the same with the D80.
Also, let's see if the new kit lens (18-135mm) is as good as the 18-70mm was. If so, I think the D80 is the best choice (with a 18-200mm VR it would be even better...).
As for the new Canon (400D?), I guess you'll know its specs before you can get your hands on a D80.

Bear in mind that I am a sucker for Nikons.

The D80 is basically the D200 but cheaper here is a comparo showing the noise at high ISO's

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra100/page28.asp

as you can see the 30D clearly shines when it comes to noise at high ISO

As far as I've heard and read the D80 will use sony's A100 sensor, here are some screenshots of the noise on the A100 compared to the 30D:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra100/page20.asp

as you can see increasing ISO increases noise greatly which will stink when you need that high ISO

 

[tait]

Are you sure about the d80 using the a100 sensor? I found a japanese website that compared the d80 to the a100 in a noise comparison and the d80 was 10x better; http://photo-cafe.jp/scoop/index.html
I resized the 1600 to a regular net size and see for yourself:

 

[Flerbizky]

What good is megapixels when its full of noise?

Exactly - Which is why I'll probably not go up until our current 4Mp camera dies a horrible death... Besides - Shooting in raw mode will allow for an A3 print in offset quality (if you do a little tweaking) - And I doubt I'll ever need that..

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Both of the kit lenses in the prices suck. You should (if you're considering a camera of that quality) look to buy it body-only and get a better lens. The Canon 17-85 F/4 IS USM lens is far better, although it's more expensive.

My personal opinion (and I'm bound to get shouted down for this) is that any given Canon and Nikon dSLR will be all-but-equivalent at any given price point. Certainly the differences between them will be adjustable post-processing. You should go to a store and buy the one you prefer, and hang its paper specifications.

See if you can rent them for a weekend each, and see which one you like best. Me, I'm a Canon person, so I'd say to get the 30D!

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Are you sure about the d80 using the a100 sensor? I found a japanese website that compared the d80 to the a100 in a noise comparison and the d80 was 10x better; http://photo-cafe.jp/scoop/index.html
I resized the 1600 to a regular net size and see for yourself:

The A100 thing is what was going around on DPreview and Fredmiranda forums.

quote from the review "It features a ten megapixel DX format CCD (the same we presume as used by Sony in the DSLR-A100), the metering sensor from the D50 and numerous other items taken or modified from the D200."

but the picture quality looks promising, thanks for finding that!

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Both of the kit lenses in the prices suck. You should (if you're considering a camera of that quality) look to buy it body-only and get a better lens. The Canon 17-85 F/4 IS USM lens is far better, although it's more expensive.

I was planing on buying just the body and a lens, but for the prices I found it was only about 80 bucks more to get it with the kit lens so I might as well get it. I was also planing to get the 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS while I save up for the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS

My personal opinion (and I'm bound to get shouted down for this) is that any given Canon and Nikon dSLR will be all-but-equivalent at any given price point. Certainly the differences between them will be adjustable post-processing. You should go to a store and buy the one you prefer, and hang its paper specifications.

See if you can rent them for a weekend each, and see which one you like best. Me, I'm a Canon person, so I'd say to get the 30D!

I'm still leaning towards the 30D, perhaps now canon will drop the price to be more competative but your right, reviews will only do so much, trying it for yourself is even better.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Both of the kit lenses in the prices suck. You should (if you're considering a camera of that quality) look to buy it body-only and get a better lens. The Canon 17-85 F/4 IS USM lens is far better, although it's more expensive.

I was planing on buying just the body and a lens, but for the prices I found it was only about 80 bucks more to get it with the kit lens so I might as well get it. I was also planing to get the 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS while I save up for the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS

So the 30D "Body Only" is $80 less than the 30D + 18-55? That's a really really bad deal. The 18-55mm lens is only £55 new, so you're really not getting any discount at all. Many of the UK retailers are literally giving away the 18-55, or adding as little as £7 to the Body Only cost.

I believe (but have no personal experience) that the gig is pretty much the same with the Nikon camera. Their kit lens is also of comparitively poor quality compared to other lenses in the range, and you would do better to source their 18-70mm separately.

Your post suggests to me that you're intending to use the kit lens as an interim measure while you save up for some quality glass. That's a good plan, but can I recommend you source a better lens second hand, and buy the camera as Body Only? If you go on to select the Canon, have a look at the Canon Digital Photography Forum. When you register, you get access to the Marketplace.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

So the 30D "Body Only" is $80 less than the 30D + 18-55? That's a really really bad deal. The 18-55mm lens is only £55 new, so you're really not getting any discount at all. Many of the UK retailers are literally giving away the 18-55, or adding as little as £7 to the Body Only cost. I believe (but have no personal experience) that the gig is pretty much the same with the Nikon camera. Their kit lens is also of comparitively poor quality compared to other lenses in the range, and you would do better to source their 18-70mm separately.

Your post suggests to me that you're intending to use the kit lens as an interim measure while you save up for some quality glass. That's a good plan, but can I recommend you source a better lens second hand, and buy the camera as Body Only? If you go on to select the Canon, have a look at the Canon Digital Photography Forum. When you register, you get access to the Marketplace.

here is where I was looking: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Ntk=all&N=0&minPrice=&maxPrice=&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

and here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...ci=6222&ac=&Submit.x=12&Submit.y=10&Submit=Go

according to this site the 18-55 lens is $139.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=351554&is=USA

meanwhile the 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS is $409.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=149629&is=GREY

so my total of body only + 28-135 =$1639.90
and body + 18-55 kit + 28-135 is only $80 more at $1719.90

then of course the big boy 70-200mm f/2.8L IS at $1659.95 brining the total to $3379.85
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=234444&is=GREY

but the big lens comes later Plus I'm ignoring things like a decent flash, tripod, CF cards, spare battery, shipping, carrying case etc.

I'll register on that site you gave me and see what I can find. 👍 That and see if there are any local used camera equipment dealers here since I've recently relocated to california.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

What do you like to shoot?

The 28-135 lens is a good one, but the 1.6 crop on the 30D will convert it to a 45-216 lens. If you are into landscapes, this will disadvantage you, because you'll be lacking on the short end. If not, you could just use the body + the 28-135, and save up for the 17-40L, which is an awesome lens.

Anyway, I would (personally) recommend you go for the 30D + 17-85 IS USM ($1,759.95) plus at least one card (Sandisk Extreme III totally rocks, you get 83 shots in RAW + JPEG fine per GB of card) and then add the 28-135 as soon as funds allow. Also, don't worry too much about getting spare OEM batteries - identical, but non-branded ones can be sourced much cheaper (again, see POTN for further info).

 

[Flerbizky]

What do you like to shoot?

The 28-135 lens is a good one, but the 1.6 crop on the 30D will convert it to a 45-216 lens. If you are into landscapes, this will disadvantage you, because you'll be lacking on the short end. If not, you could just use the body + the 28-135, and save up for the 17-40L, which is an awesome lens.

Does Crop differ from camera to camera ?... On my 1D, the Crop is 1.3 and I was told that was common...

I just want an L lense with imagestabilizer... /* Wanders off sobbing */

[Edit:] Just noticed - MyDigitalDiscount.com has very cheap batteries - Then ones I've bought for the 1D has none of the problems with the closing I've heard others have...

 

[GilesGuthrie]

The Canons with the APS-C sensors (20D, 30D, 300D, 350D) all have 1.6 crops. Don't know about Nikons.

I was under the impression that all the 1Ds were full-frame cameras? 5D is as well.

 

[Flerbizky]

The Canons with the APS-C sensors (20D, 30D, 300D, 350D) all have 1.6 crops. Don't know about Nikons.

I was under the impression that all the 1Ds were full-frame cameras? 5D is as well.

Nope - All 1Ds are 1.3..

Weird..

 

[GilesGuthrie]

The Canon UK site quotes the 1Ds II as having a 36x24mm sensor with a 1.0 crop. Odd.

Anyway, I'm never going to be able to stump up for one, so it's academic to me!!!

 

[Flerbizky]

The Canon UK site quotes the 1Ds II as having a 36x24mm sensor with a 1.0 crop. Odd.

Anyway, I'm never going to be able to stump up for one, so it's academic to me!!!

Me neither - I just got lucky...

I'll do a re-check and get back...

[Edit:]

According to DPreview.com -

EOS-1D - 1.3
EOS-1D Mk. II - 1.3
EOS-1Ds - 1
EOS-1Ds Mk. II - 1

As usual - I admit to being wrong... I suck - sorry.....

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

What do you like to shoot?

The 28-135 lens is a good one, but the 1.6 crop on the 30D will convert it to a 45-216 lens. If you are into landscapes, this will disadvantage you, because you'll be lacking on the short end. If not, you could just use the body + the 28-135, and save up for the 17-40L, which is an awesome lens.

Anyway, I would (personally) recommend you go for the 30D + 17-85 IS USM ($1,759.95) plus at least one card (Sandisk Extreme III totally rocks, you get 83 shots in RAW + JPEG fine per GB of card) and then add the 28-135 as soon as funds allow. Also, don't worry too much about getting spare OEM batteries - identical, but non-branded ones can be sourced much cheaper (again, see POTN for further info).

I like to shoot everything, I just want a nice rounded set of lenses. I want to start doing model photography and motorsports. Aswell as landscapes. I'm working on a gallery I can show you what I've done so far when its all done

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Me neither - I just got lucky...

I'll do a re-check and get back...

[Edit:]

According to DPreview.com -

EOS-1D - 1.3
EOS-1D Mk. II - 1.3
EOS-1Ds - 1
EOS-1Ds Mk. II - 1

As usual - I admit to being wrong... I suck - sorry.....

Well, there are more than just one '1D', so you're excused!! I did wonder if it was something that was enhanced with the MkII models. The 1Dn is only (!!) 12MP as well, isn't it? As opposed to the 16.7 of the 1Ds Mk II.

I like to shoot everything, I just want a nice rounded set of lenses. I want to start doing model photography and motorsports. Aswell as landscapes. I'm working on a gallery I can show you what I've done so far when its all done

Then you really need the 17-85 IS USM. That will give you a single, general-purpose lens to get you started, then you can make additional purchases as funds allow and need demonstrates. If you are looking for a lens to get you started in motorsports, go for the 75-300 F/4-f/5.6 USM lens. It's cheap as chips, and will cover you until you can get the 'daddy' 70-200L F/2.8 IS USM.

I'm about to buy the 50mm 1.4, for portrait work.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Well, there are more than just one '1D', so you're excused!! I did wonder if it was something that was enhanced with the MkII models. The 1Dn is only (!!) 12MP as well, isn't it? As opposed to the 16.7 of the 1Ds Mk II.



Then you really need the 17-85 IS USM. That will give you a single, general-purpose lens to get you started, then you can make additional purchases as funds allow and need demonstrates. If you are looking for a lens to get you started in motorsports, go for the 75-300 F/4-f/5.6 USM lens. It's cheap as chips, and will cover you until you can get the 'daddy' 70-200L F/2.8 IS USM.

I'm about to buy the 50mm 1.4, for portrait work.

I'll have to look up those lenses but for now its 3 am my time, I just finished the gallery, some minor coding glitches it seems, which locally is fine but one uploaded to the server it seems to gain a few unwanted characters...

you can take a look at my stuff so far and see what I've done till now. right now I just have a lowly fuji S5000

http://www.gtr.siteburg.com/

anyway, once I'm coherent again I'll do some more research on what to buy

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Some great pictures in that gallery, but I hate your host, with its ads plastered all over the place!

You've a good eye for an image, and you continue to demonstrate the undeniable truth that photography is more about the photographer than the equipment.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Some great pictures in that gallery, but I hate your host, with its ads plastered all over the place!

You've a good eye for an image, and you continue to demonstrate the undeniable truth that photography is more about the photographer than the equipment.

yes free host = crap but I forgot about the ads since I have firefox I dont see any.

blah I changed hosts to one with no ads

http://azskylinegtr.awardspace.com

 

[barryf1fan]

I've been looking at the canon 30D for quite some time now, but nikon's new D80 has me interested as well, its seems very similar to the higher end D200 there are very few differences. Plus the price on the D80 is lower! But the canon from what I hear has better ISO performance which is important. What good is megapixels when its full of noise?

side by side comparison:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...yside&cameras=canon_eos30d,nikon_d80&show=all

D80 with 18-55 F3.5-5.6 $1,099.95
30D with 18-55 F3.5-5.6 $1,309.95

however photokina is coming up soon, perhaps its best to wait for canon's response?

You could wait forever if you wait on the next "great" camera.
I have a 30D with kit lens (among others now), and would suggest not getting the kit lens... once you get into it you find it really is a "cheap" lens.
I'm new at this (photography) and am pleased with my decision to get the Canon. I'm not a fan of either brand, but...

My best friend has a D70s, and while it is a sharp camera the Digital Rebel XT is just a "feature" packed and is less than the Nikon. Also, the Canon lens are "all" driven by a motor in the lens and not the camera body. So even the cheap canon lenses have a AF drive motor. My bud has already had his camera back to Nikon because the drive (which is on the body) failed.

The other thing I really like about my camera (30D) versus his (D70s) is mine is metal body and his is a plastic body, may sound insignificant, that is until you have the opportunity to hold both in your hand.

Like I said I'm not a loyal fan to either... I just felt that spending the amount of money I was spending the Canon (to me) was the better "deal".

As far as the D80, per se, the one thing I can't understand is they are switching to a SD cards instead of the CF cards...
But, I'm sure they have their reasons.

I hope this helped, and my suggestion is don't buy anything until you have held both in your hand (really is a big deal) and don't get the kit lens for either (I wished I would have listened)

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

You could wait forever if you wait on the next "great" camera.
I have a 30D with kit lens (among others now), and would suggest not getting the kit lens... once you get into it you find it really is a "cheap" lens.
I'm new at this (photography) and am pleased with my decision to get the Canon. I'm not a fan of either brand, but...

My best friend has a D70s, and while it is a sharp camera the Digital Rebel XT is just a "feature" packed and is less than the Nikon. Also, the Canon lens are "all" driven by a motor in the lens and not the camera body. So even the cheap canon lenses have a AF drive motor. My bud has already had his camera back to Nikon because the drive (which is on the body) failed.

The other thing I really like about my camera (30D) versus his (D70s) is mine is metal body and his is a plastic body, may sound insignificant, that is until you have the opportunity to hold both in your hand.

Like I said I'm not a loyal fan to either... I just felt that spending the amount of money I was spending the Canon (to me) was the better "deal".

As far as the D80, per se, the one thing I can't understand is they are switching to a SD cards instead of the CF cards...
But, I'm sure they have their reasons.

I hope this helped, and my suggestion is don't buy anything until you have held both in your hand (really is a big deal) and don't get the kit lens for either (I wished I would have listened)

I actually got a chance this week to play with a D70s and a 30D with the 70-200 F2.8L IS Just messing with the features, snapping a few pictures, checking out the button placement etc, I liked the 30D a bit better it just felt to me like a more solid camera.

 

[barryf1fan]

It is a more solid camera (30D that is)... I'm not sure who (earlier in the thread) said the D80 is [going to be] more like the D200 - It is not, it is a replacement for the D70/D70s model.

The D50/D70 line competed with the Digital Rebel, and in between the rebel and 20D. For me, when you are talking about spending over $1000 dollars for a dSLR, the 30D just seemed to be the best deal (for the money), albeit the Nikon D70s was a bit cheaper... the metal body and canon sensor was worth the difference in price.

Just my opinion... do with it what you like.

 

[Burnout]

I'll have to look up those lenses but for now its 3 am my time, I just finished the gallery, some minor coding glitches it seems, which locally is fine but one uploaded to the server it seems to gain a few unwanted characters...

you can take a look at my stuff so far and see what I've done till now. right now I just have a lowly fuji S5000

http://www.gtr.siteburg.com/

anyway, once I'm coherent again I'll do some more research on what to buy

I'd say go with the Canon.. I've had great experience with them, and between the 30D and similar Nikon cameras, I always prefered the images from the Canon. The colors were warmer and richer, and the images looked as clear but smoother.

The real reason I came into this thread however was to praise your photography. I know what it's like to have to shoot with a sucky camera, and while it is 100% true what Giles and others have said about importance of the shooter over the equipment, but on the flipside have a nice camera really opens some doors (techniques and features that you simply cannot control with a cheap camera). I can't wait to see what you crank out with a nicer camera.👍

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I'd say go with the Canon.. I've had great experience with them, and between the 30D and similar Nikon cameras, I always prefered the images from the Canon. The colors were warmer and richer, and the images looked as clear but smoother.

The real reason I came into this thread however was to praise your photography. I know what it's like to have to shoot with a sucky camera, and while it is 100% true what Giles and others have said about importance of the shooter over the equipment, but on the flipside have a nice camera really opens some doors (techniques and features that you simply cannot control with a cheap camera). I can't wait to see what you crank out with a nicer camera.👍

thanks Its really encouraging to have people like my photos despite being technically handicapped (crap shutter speeds, crap ISO settings, noise, cant select jpeg comression etc, the only thing going for it is the 10x optical zoom) Yeah I'll keep posting stuff as I crank it out, espcially once I get the new toys.

Did you make that site in your sig? What CMS do you use? I wanna make a site soon, I'm looking at joomla..