Project CARS 2's LiveTrack 3.0 System Models Track Temps Based on Angle of the Sun

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

Project CARS 2's LiveTrack 3.0 System Models Track Temps Based on Angle of the Sun

This article was published by Adam Ismail (@glassjaw) on June 15th, 2017 in the Project CARS 2 category.

 

[PzR Slim]

It's an astonishing achievement. Many on these boards are highlighting the good work done by both PD and T10 to bring a small fraction of these things into GTS and FM7 respectively whilst seemingly being unaware that SMS are doing it all and doing it better. After the fog on the ring example from GTS that everyone is currently losing their shoot over, I ran a two lap race on the ring this morning before work in PCars 2 with 20 x time and weather progression where I set two weather conditions, clear to light fog. It was mega, the sun sank as time passed and the mist rolled in through the trees and gathered in hollows as the sun went down.

If you think the fog on the ring from the trailer is good you really won't believe how much better it is in PCars 2 with the dynamism that the time and weather affords the experience. GTS & FM7 are looking to be really good but I genuinely think that PCars 2 is going to be the winner.

 

[Bealdor]

Related videos published by SMS (description below):

Weathering In

00:00 - Firstly lets take a look at rain being applied to the track - we'd need this if the track is dry but it rained before the event started or if its already raining, we'd want to show that it didn't start raining that second, in fact its been raining a while. We adjust the level from 0 and start adding water to the track surface.
00:10 - You can see that very quickly water and puddling appears on the edges of the track and some crosses the track itself. At 00:16 we've applied the maximum amount of weathered in rain available.
00:28 - All of the water has been removed again. We now add back 48% rain level ready to show stochastic bumps.
00:35 - Here I'm changing the random seed used by the setup, you can quickly see that the same 48% level with different random seeds can create vastly different looking water on the track surface.
00:50 - After a few random seed changes, we remove the water levels again.
00:58 - We move onto the wetness levels - this affects both the driven area of the track and the offline areas but the offline areas get wetter more quickly. As we apply a small amount of wetness the offline areas quickly darken up but leave the driven areas almost dry.
01:11 - As we increase the wetness levels even the driven line is starting to darken more. This is to simulate that the track is wet but has had some activity from vehicles to help dry the surface.
01:13 - We continue to increase wetness levels to maximum and even the driving line eventually turns fully dark simulating that it's rained recently but has yet to start drying offline or on the driven line.
01:22 - We can very quickly spin around and change the level of wetness and see its affect instantly. I then do a fly over of the track in its semi-wet state.
01:48 - At another location on the track I remove some more wetness.
02:02 - Now we are showing combining wetness with water/rain levels so not only has it rained, but its began to puddle at some points of the track.
02:21 - I've added 34% rain, 10% driven line wetness and then do a fly over on the track. At this point the simulation is running again and where the areas of water are, the track darkens much more even though they are on the driven line.
02:50 - We remove some of the rain levels and just fly about with 2% rain. Wetness is then increased.
03:28 - Changing the random seed again so that the location of the water changes.
03:38 - Now we look at rubbering in - this is a generic layer laid down and which we are able to lay just a small or large layer onto the track. We quickly add the most rubber available from the weathering in and fly around. This level of rubber will still be added to if cars brake anywhere on the track. It's specifically for the start state. At 100% there is rubber on almost all of the driven line (as if there's been a 24 hour event with no rain so its continued to build and build) but in the braking and turning zones there is significantly more laid down.
04:26 - We reduce the rubbering in levels to 24% - akin to a qualifying event having been held before the main race, we have some rubber laid down and we only really see it in the braking/turning zones now.
05:07 - Onto the dirt and loose material level which spreads dirt and dust as well as gravel, mud and sand onto the track offline. Dirt will be found all over the track whereas gravel, mud and sand are only found either side of a track if there's loose material nearby simulating that it's been dragged onto the track from previous incidents.
05:22 - At 100% dirt it looks quite extreme but it actually only layers on about 25% dirt which can very easily get cleaned when a car drives off the main line. Of course that will dirty up the vehicles tyres.
05:43 - Reducing the dirt level down and up again to show the ever changing layer of dirt off the main driven line.
06:10 - Finally snow because we all know Winter is Coming.
06:15 - We add just 2% snow/ice and you can see its only seen on the very outer edges of the track near the barriers. As we increase the level of snow, it starts to encroach on the track itself and gets deeper and deeper on the outer edges until at 100% snow and ice is seen over the whole surface but we still have the driven line with slightly reduced levels. We then do a fly by to see the snow across the track. you'll notice we get some deeper levels near the track as it collects on rougher areas like the rumble strips. You'll also notice we map the line to all lines so we even get snow coming into and out of the pits.
07:03 - We reduce the amount of snow back to 86% so we can see the driven line clearing and then finally back to 0%.

Night to Day to Night Temperature Transition

00:00 - We are at a Tri-Oval which gives us very sharp angles and banking and shows off the differences in temperatures. We start at night, the air and track temperature is cool and purple but as the sun starts to rise, so does the track temperature.
00:11 - The flat part of the track is starting to warm turning green whereas the banking is cooler as the corner points away from the sun.
00:18 - The flat part is getting even warmer (green/yellow) and the banking is quite cool (cyan).
00:26 - You can see the track warm further along the corner towards the higher banked area.
00:36 - The sun is being to go down in the sky and the track starts to cool.
00:42 - The track is cooling quickly.
00:52 - The sun sets and the track cools.
01:00 - A new scene and a different corner of the Tri-Oval track.
01:13 - The sun is up and the part of the corner nearest the camera is already warming up quicker than the flat surface further away.
01:25 - The hottest part of the day and the whole corner and flat are quite even temperatures.
01:38 - The sun has now passed over the corner and its actually cooling quicker than the flat track so is turning green/blue.
02:00 - A new scene and this time we get to see the whole of the Tri-Oval track in 2D. The white line in the middle is the direction and strength of the sun. As it passes itself in the middle is when the sun rises above the horizon.
02:12 - Very quickly you can see how the direction of the sun is warming parts of the track it points at whilst others are cooler. Early in the morning the lower half of the track is warmest.
02:24 - The sun starts to swing away from the right side and you'll notice parts of the track on the right are cooler than those on the left.
02:34 - The sun is fully pointing away from the right and its the coolest side of the track. Left upper areas which didn't warm in the morning are now hotter.
02:43 - The sun is starting to set and all parts of the track cool back to the average track temperature.
02:49 - The sun sets.
03:00 - Our last scene is at the bottom of the Paddock Hill bend at Brands Hatch Indy. Again its night and the track is cool as the race starts.
03:02 - The first lap and the track warms up where the cars drove around the corner but soon starts to normalise with the tracks average temperature.
03:14 - A few laps in and the top of the corner is warmest because it faces the sun. The flat on the left is cooler blue.
03:20 - The track is really warming up at the top of the corner, now turning yellow.
03:33 - The sun is beginning to drop and the track is starting to cool.
03:47 - The sun sets and the track cools down to purple during the night but the cars continue to drive and create some slightly warming areas on the track.

Temperature Debug Rendering

00:00 - Back to Brands Hatch Indy, the sun is setting and the track temperature is 23.4c, the race has just started and the 20 cars drive off - we are sitting on the first corner waiting for the racing pack to drive through. The track is a bluish green reflecting the cooler track surface.
00:11 - The first cars are taking the corner and already we are seeing some yellow streaks
00:16 - The pack has passed the first corner and there's plenty of activity and temperature rises on the track from the heavily braking and skidding cars taking a difficult corner
00:20 - Notice that the corner is already starting to cool and the temperatures spread further from where the cars drove as the temperature dissipates
00:47 - The corner continues to cool and there's no longer any yellow areas, only green, but its still possible to see where the cars drove
00:48 - Lap 2 for the cars and the track starts to warm up even more from the cars
00:52 - Red is now beginning to be seem on the surface as areas of the track get even hotter
00:58 - The corner is at its hottest, it'll start cooling now over time as the cars drive the rest of the lap, watch the heat dissipate
01:22 - Lap 3 and the track hasn't cooled below yellow this time as the leader of the pack takes the first corner
01:26 - I've never seen this before or since; a car slides losing control and the rest of the AI pile into him - watch as the red streaks of temperature litter the track as the AI desperately try to avoid the cars in their way
01:33 - The AI start to leave the scene of the crash but they've left a lot of evidence of an incident in the form of heat on the track surface
01:39 - That extra heat is already dissipating across the rest of the track
01:53 - I move the picker slowly across the track surface. It starts at 23.4c but as we get closer to the hotter parts, the track is warmer even though no cars drove over it
02:04 - As we hover over the hotter parts of the track, we can see its temperature reducing over time
02:21 - I pick a point very close to the hot parts of the track, its currently 31.3c and drops to 31.2c within a few seconds but at 02:34 it starts to rise in temperature as its neighbours dissipate heat to it before starting to cool again at 02:47
03:12 - A flyby of the entire tracks surface
04:19 - The braking zone for the first corner, this is where we are seeing the most heat generated
04:27 - Notice that the picker is several metres off of the main driving track but its still showing 23.5c
04:52 - I freecam to an area of the track where there's no braking or skidding areas and move laterally across the track to show there's a very small rise of temperature peaking at 25.2c so the tyres are radiating a small amount of heat even when not skidding or braking
05:13 - Drone view over the tracks surface for 1 lap

I know they were already posted in another thread but I thought they'd fit quite well in here.

 

[Uncle Ed]

PDI: "We now have fog."
SMS: "That's adorable."

 

[wicken]

@glassjaw "The clip shows a multi-class GT race at Catalunya, and changes from daylight to dusk in just two laps."
There's a mistake there, they're racing at Algarve International Circuit.

 

[Cosbuster]

As good as it sounds, I'd rather wait and see how it actually feels before praising it. I was burned badly by the first game, can't have that again.

 

[panjandrum]

This is all great stuff. I really enjoyed all the weather effects etc. from the original PCars. But I'll say this, in case the developers are reading and actually care: It doesn't matter how many feature you add: if you don't base it on a world-class physics and FFB system then ultimately what you are making is just a game. It makes zero difference if you model track temps if the physics underlying all of it, and the method of communicating those to the driver, are as terrible as they were in PCars.

 

[PzR Slim]

As good as it sounds, I'd rather wait and see how it actually feels before praising it. I was burned badly by the first game, can't have that again.

This is all great stuff. I really enjoyed all the weather effects etc. from the original PCars. But I'll say this, in case the developers are reading and actually care: It doesn't matter how many feature you add: if you don't base it on a world-class physics and FFB system then ultimately what you are making is just a game. It makes zero difference if you model track temps if the physics underlying all of it, and the method of communicating those to the driver, are as terrible as they were in PCars.

From a different thread.

I've just played PCars 2 with a controller for the first time. I usually play in my rig with a wheel but it's set up for my PS4 at the moment. I was playing with an Xbox One controller and without changing any settings I was able to drive the car with no problem. I then tweaked the steering sensitivity and speed sensitivity to my liking and could have played quite easily for hours without issue. And that's someone who hasn't played a racing game, except for FH3, with a controller for 10 years or so. The controller problems are no longer an issue.

 

[Cosbuster]

I don't recall saying anything about the controls. Also, someone not having a problem with the controls doesn't invalidate all those who did.

 

[PzR Slim]

I don't recall saying anything about the controls. Also, someone not having a problem with the controls doesn't invalidate all those who did.

That was one of the major problems with the first game and you said you wanted to wait until you know how it feels. I'm giving my experiences of playing the new game and hence how it feels.

 

[Cosbuster]

That was one of the major problems with the first game and you said you wanted to wait until you know how it feels. I'm giving my experiences of playing the new game and hence how it feels.

What I meant was how the systems are implemented/feel rather than how good they sound on paper. The transition from dry to wet was also praised highly before the first game was released only to disappoint with how scripted it was in the career and how the track would get fully wet/dry in seconds after a weather change.

 

[PzR Slim]

What I meant was how the system are implemented/feel rather than how good they sound on paper. The transition from dry to wet was also praised highly before the first game was released only to disappoint with how scripted it was in the career and how the track would get fully wet/dry in seconds after a weather change.

Once again, I've been running lots of situations with changing weather and changing time and it's a huge improvement over the first game. You will also find the longer circuits, the Ring, Le Mans, for example have more localised weather. So one part of the circuit can be dry whilst another will be wet due to the weather only affecting one part of the track.

 

[Cosbuster]

Once again, I've been running lots of situations with changing weather and changing time and it's a huge improvement over the first game. You will also find the longer circuits, the Ring, Le Mans, for example have more localised weather. So one part of the circuit can be dry whilst another will be wet due to the weather only affecting one part of the track.

No offence or anything, but I'll wait until the game is out for a month and people have tested everything extensively, I'm not quite convinced just yet.

 

[Steph290]

Project Cars was beautiful and SMS aimed high, but it missed the mark by a bit. I am very much excited for PC2 and GTS, but I take everything devs announce with a grain of salt. When it releases, then we can judge new features.

 

[Cluck]

This is all great stuff. I really enjoyed all the weather effects etc. from the original PCars. But I'll say this, in case the developers are reading and actually care: It doesn't matter how many feature you add: if you don't base it on a world-class physics and FFB system then ultimately what you are making is just a game. It makes zero difference if you model track temps if the physics underlying all of it, and the method of communicating those to the driver, are as terrible as they were in PCars.

At the risk of continuing the off-topic nature of this thread, we are all playing games. Project CARS, iRacing, AC, rFactor, RRRE, Automobilista, Forza, Gran Turismo et al, the one thing they have in common is that they are all games. None of them do or simulate everything perfectly, they each have their own areas of speciality and it's great that we have that choice. But to write off a game because it doesn't do the thing that 'another-sim-of-choice' does is disingenuous when that A N Other sim doesn't do something else that yet another sim does. Find the game that you like playing and play it and appreciate the efforts the developers put into delivering it to you.

Can the thread get back on topic again now?

 

[marcvic]

So by the end of the championship series that has not had any rain, everyone will be able to push their cars harder and harder - should make for some great/tense final races Cool feature!

 

[HarlemG27]

I ran a two lap race on the ring this morning before work in PCars 2 with 20 x time and weather progression where I set two weather conditions, clear to light fog. It was mega...

Do you use a wheel, and if so how does it handle?

Pc2 could really put sms on the map depending on the handling model

 

[RomKnight]

Do you use a wheel, and if so how does it handle?

Pc2 could really put sms on the map depending on the handling model

Allow me to go back a little and correct you.

In my view SMS is on the map since pC1. People just tend to "forget" - read hypocrites - how much others improved since pC1 came out, even those who said consoles are not for sims... (I won't develop this further)

pC2 is more than refinement or even evolution. One might thing so though. Answering your question directly: yes, physics and therefore handling is "a few notches" better

Taking it a bit further, everything was revamped or even rewritten and there's also new stuff on top of it. Expect great (for the better) changes.

 

[daarsk]

LiveTrack sounds too good to be true.. I wonder how well it will work on PS4. I can imagine on a high end PC it would be great, but on console?

 

[jake2013guy]

LiveTrack sounds too good to be true.. I wonder how well it will work on PS4. I can imagine on a high end PC it would be great, but on console?

They'll work the same on each console unless I'm very much mistaken. But @IanBell has confirmed that the PS4 runs at 1080p60.

 

[Ian Bell]

LiveTrack sounds too good to be true.. I wonder how well it will work on PS4. I can imagine on a high end PC it would be great, but on console?

It's fully implemented in its entirety on PS4 (and Xbox).

 

[Masscot]

They'll work the same on each console unless I'm very much mistaken. But @IanBell has confirmed that the PS4 runs at 1080p60.

I'm looking forward to seeing some direct-feed PS4 footage and hearing how the game is optimised for PS Pro.

I believe there were console builds at E3, but running on the One X..?

 

[lancashirelad]

Once again, I've been running lots of situations with changing weather and changing time and it's a huge improvement over the first game. You will also find the longer circuits, the Ring, Le Mans, for example have more localised weather. So one part of the circuit can be dry whilst another will be wet due to the weather only affecting one part of the track.

Do you know if the AI are affected by the new live track?
First game had problems with the AI running super fast in the rain and also not pitting.Have these bugs been addressed?

 

[jake2013guy]

I'm looking forward to seeing some direct-feed PS4 footage and hearing how the game is optimised for PS Pro.

I believe there were console builds at E3, but running on the One X..?

From what I heard, yes. Although I'd also love to see PS4 footage.

 

[Satco1066]

 

[Ian Bell]

Do you know if the AI are affected by the new live track?
First game had problems with the AI running super fast in the rain and also not pitting.Have these bugs been addressed?

It's balance more than bugs and there are still issues yes. We're furiously trying to balance it for all weather, time of day, series, cars, track surface, etc etc but the possible variations are almost endless so it's a tough one to nail properly. They are certainly better than before and we're still polishing.

 

[05XR8]

Have any testers experienced this scenario?:

I'm watching Supercars Practice 3. Practice 2 was in the late afternoon, sunny, with 32degC temp. The fastest time was a 1.06.XXXX.
Right now 10am, the temp is 6deg cooler and sunny. They are halfway through the 1hour session and a driver has just done a 1.05.65.
Are testers seeing these kind of changes over the course of a full weekend?

Edit: I can't wait. I'm going to love this game. it won't be about, "Well, car X did the nurb in X.XX.XXX. So, why can't my car in game, replicate that?". It'll be about driving to the conditions of the track. A great equalizer for competition.
Some drivers may be good in the wet, others in the dry, some better at strategy calls, some luck involved as well.

 

[RomKnight]

Have any testers experienced this scenario?:

I'm watching Supercars Practice 3. Practice 2 was in the late afternoon, sunny, with 32degC temp. The fastest time was a 1.06.XXXX.
Right now 10am, the temp is 6deg cooler and sunny. They are halfway through the 1hour session and a driver has just done a 1.05.65.
Are testers seeing these kind of changes over the course of a full weekend?

You could already see this in pC1. I recall one of the first races with lmp2 and gt3 where I had this advantage of knowing (although I did warn them) that starting at night on cold could be tricky on accelerated time to day and higher temps.

Again, it's the balance of pressure. Those who started with higher pressures at night had the early advantage but boy did they suffer on high temps and over-inflated tyres.

I had a blast on that race.... own on tyre pressure strategy alone

 

[lancashirelad]

It's balance more than bugs and there are still issues yes. We're furiously trying to balance it for all weather, time of day, series, cars, track surface, etc etc but the possible variations are almost endless so it's a tough one to nail properly. They are certainly better than before and we're still polishing.

Thanks for response. Features in PC 2 sound impressive. Appreciate how difficult it could be getting it all to work in harmony that's why i asked. Certainly looking forward to trying it all out later in the year.

 

[05XR8]

I'm watching a V8 Supercars TV show. One of the Red Bull did Iver's is describing how his car wasn't handling that well on the long from straight. He then confirms that the car got worse with the change of surface and wind at the end of the straight at turn in to the first turn.

It gets me more intrigued to experience this feature. How it affects car set up. How the car performance changes over race distance.

I'm sure most of us have experienced strong wind conditions on a freeway or suspension bridge, but pulling up from 270km/h into a turn, just won't be the same, after "feeling" it in this game.