GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on September 15th, 2017 in the Formula One category.
McLaren and Honda Finally Announce Their F1 Divorce
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- GTP_Famine
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- topu999
Does anyone really expect the Honda engine to become competitive any time soon? I certainly don't, because if in three years they've barely improved, if they have at all, will they do so in less than a year?
Also, is the McLaren chassis actually good, or does it seem like it's good because it can't go fast in the first place? Maybe if the Honda engine suddenly was on par to the rest and as such made the whole car faster it'd turn out the McLaren is actually average or even worse.
Also, is the McLaren chassis actually good, or does it seem like it's good because it can't go fast in the first place? Maybe if the Honda engine suddenly was on par to the rest and as such made the whole car faster it'd turn out the McLaren is actually average or even worse.
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- GTP_daan
I don't see how McLaren can benefit from this. They were a customer of the best engine, and gave that up to be a partner of an engine manufacturer. If they weren't going to win as a customer of the best engine, how do they expect to fare as a customer to the current 2nd worst engine?
Silver Arrows
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- Brandon, MB
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So, what happens to the rumors that McLaren were looking to get into Indycar? It was about the only natural thing about this marriage, unless they get into a relationship with Chevrolet? There is history there as well.
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- mcluvin93hatch
Its probably all fun to joke about it, but I don't expect the Honda engine to suddenly 'come good' next year, as that was supposed to be this year, and clearly that hasn't happened.
Third time is supposed to be the charm, if it hasn't happened though, it's not going to. This Honda is no longer the Honda of mid-nineties Indycar, there are no dreams left, only memes.
Third time is supposed to be the charm, if it hasn't happened though, it's not going to. This Honda is no longer the Honda of mid-nineties Indycar, there are no dreams left, only memes.
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- Bromley
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- E0nLeader
You know the best thing about all this for Alonso?
Still, commiserations to whoever has to drive for Toro Rosso next year. Presumably that'd be Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat, provided he hasn't been demoted to Red Bull's HR department in the meantime.
Still, commiserations to whoever has to drive for Toro Rosso next year. Presumably that'd be Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat, provided he hasn't been demoted to Red Bull's HR department in the meantime.
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- GTP_Famine
And there's the finance aspect.
With Honda, McLaren doesn't have to pay for engines (or gearboxes, I recall) and they have a major title sponsor and driver sponsor. The figures I've seen today are unverifiable, but $80m to get a new engine supplier for 2018 and a loss of $140m in sponsorship money (unless part of the agreed split is some continued payments) makes a bloody huge chunk in finances.
The flip side is that McLaren was 9th of 10 constructors in 2016, and 6th of 10 constructors in 2015. That's already lost it $50m compared to if it had finished 3rd, 4th or 5th. It's on to finish 9th in 2017 too, and that's significant as one of the payments to teams comes from their results over two of the last three seasons. Currently it has a 5th and a 6th to trade on, but next year it'll be 6th and 9th. If Honda can't improve for 2018, it'd be 9th and 9th, and they'd be looking at a loss of around $100m over the four years and a butt-naked trophy cabinet.
If McLaren can get a new title sponsor, and Renault gets it back on the podium, that'll offset the cost of the engines. If not... brrrrrrrrrr.
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Then openly bitch about them endlessly during 2015, threaten to change supplier and whine about how little power it had, eventually resulting in Renault only supplying Red Bull with engines because they have a contract to 2020 that says they have to supply Red Bull if Red Bull cannot find another engine supplier, and refusing to be associated with Red Bull to the point of rebadging the engine as "TAG Heuer"...
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What McLaren lose from the Honda split they might gain from actually being able to attract sponsors and compete for points again. Say what you want about Renault, the engine can win races with a good car, and they've made improvements since 2014, more so than Honda could ever dream to make.
That and their commitment to the sport means they'll definitely be trying their best to put out a competitive engine in the coming years.
Splitting with Honda only looks bad if somehow they magically make a fast and reliable engine in time for 2018, and McLaren probably know better than any of us it is bleak, so bleak in fact that the money Honda contribute is no longer worth it. They would have access to dyno data and the blueprints of the new engine.
Now McLaren can worry about the car more than the power unit.
That and their commitment to the sport means they'll definitely be trying their best to put out a competitive engine in the coming years.
Splitting with Honda only looks bad if somehow they magically make a fast and reliable engine in time for 2018, and McLaren probably know better than any of us it is bleak, so bleak in fact that the money Honda contribute is no longer worth it. They would have access to dyno data and the blueprints of the new engine.
Now McLaren can worry about the car more than the power unit.
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The fact that it seems to only affect Max to such an extent, and Renault's otherwise solid reliability history (at least compared to Honda) say to me it's probably a Red Bull or Max Verstappen's engineers issue more than anything else. Honda's engine reliability is beyond hilariously bad, it's bordering on unprofessional. They have equaled their 2015 retirements already, and that year was what everyone thought was as bad as it could get.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Perhaps all the blown engines and hydraulic failures we've seen in Renault powerplants over the season don't count? In this season's races alone Renault engines have contributed to 11 retirements. Then there are the grid penalties being regularly applied to those drivers for already exceeding their parts allotment.
I agree that the Honda seems to be an all-round worse engine than the Renault (or TAG Heuer, or Toro Rosso) but the Renault unit isn't even close to the front runners in terms of reliability.
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Red Bull have had such a falling out with Renault, when Christian Horner wouldn't shut the 🤬 up that RB suddenly weren't the supremely dominant team anymore, that they don't even want to call their engines Renaults anymore.
Out of the fire but into a frying pan for McLaren?
Out of the fire but into a frying pan for McLaren?
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Wow never knew F1 was so complicated
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