Meet The Like-New McLaren F1 That's Been Kept In Its Box For Twenty Years

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

Meet The Like-New McLaren F1 That's Been Kept In Its Box For Twenty Years
It’s not every day a super rare car comes up for sale. It’s even rarer when that car is still factory fresh. But this is exactly what a recent McLaren F1 offered up for sale features.

This article was published by Joe Donaldson (@Joey D) on October 18th, 2017 in the Car Culture category.

 

[karma996]

That's my DREAM CAR

 

[Danoff]

Destined for a museum, unless something bad happened to it in storage. If it has never been run, and that seems like a distinct possibility given the original packaging still intact, starting it is not going to be easy. A ton of work would go into just making sure that it can be started safely (not that that would be too much to ask if you're dropping $18M on it). My guess is that this car never gets driven by anyone other than the test team that put the original miles on it. I'd be willing to wager a little money that whoever buys it will not even start it.

It will be a great piece for a museum, my kids' grandkids will hopefully enjoy being able to go somewhere and see what it looked like when it was new.

 

[GT Kelv]

I heard these cars have parts that time out. Meaning certain parts have to changed after a certain time period no matter if the car has been ran or not. If is so that maintenance bill I’d gonna in the 100k’s.

 

[fatkid]

Destined for a museum, unless something bad happened to it in storage. If it has never been run, and that seems like a distinct possibility given the original packaging still intact, starting it is not going to be easy. A ton of work would go into just making sure that it can be started safely (not that that would be too much to ask if you're dropping $18M on it). My guess is that this car never gets driven by anyone other than the test team that put the original miles on it. I'd be willing to wager a little money that whoever buys it will not even start it.

It will be a great piece for a museum, my kids' grandkids will hopefully enjoy being able to go somewhere and see what it looked like when it was new.

I sadly agree. The lower mileage will just add to the value and the new owner probably won't want to ruin that. Tragic irony being the case with the F1 was that it was built with no compromise in the pursuit of peformance and driver involvement, painstakingly created by talented people. It might as well just be a embalmed celebrity from Hollywood's golden era.

 

[Famine]

I heard these cars have parts that time out. Meaning certain parts have to changed after a certain time period no matter if the car has been ran or not.

Yep. That applies to most things with rubber belts anywhere too.

 

[deththrasher]

It's so sad when these beautiful machines are never driven..what a waste.

 

[InebriHATED]

What a specimen!!!!

 

[McLaren]

Owner saw a potential investment in the car and that's it. It's taken 20 years, but it's probably paid off well for him. I wagered around $20 million initially, but according to the Internet's resident McLaren expert Peloton, it's been on the market for years at $25-$27 million. I don't think it's worth that much and it seems others in the market have agreed. The recent one selling for $15.6 million was a record-setter, but not enough to really justify twice the price for this example, imo.

 

[mef]

Not how this car should be used or was intended, this is wrong on so many levels. If you have a hot girl friend and you only ever stare at her what kind of douche does that make you. It is possible to enjoy a car and not ruin in. Lamest thing I've seen all week.

 

[Danoff]

I heard these cars have parts that time out. Meaning certain parts have to changed after a certain time period no matter if the car has been ran or not. If is so that maintenance bill I’d gonna in the 100k’s.

Yep. That applies to most things with rubber belts anywhere too.

Yea, to add to what Famine said, to start an engine that has not been started for decades, you have to pull (and replace) the spark plugs and inject oil directly into the cylinders and crank it by hand. Which is already probably a bridge too far for this car, because it would mean replacing the spark plugs, or even just pulling them, and that would disturb it more than it has been. If it was delivered with gasoline in the tank that wasn't removed, that gas would have to be removed from the tank and the lines. Hopefully someone siphoned the gas a long time ago because it will eat away from the inside. I've heard craziness about cars being worth more with the original tank of gas intact... which is losing sight of the goal IMO. Similarly for coolant. Everything rubber will be cracked and leaking at this point. So all hoses, belts, tires, gaskets, etc. would have to be replaced. Battery has to go.

It's not so much that this is too much money to be spent on this car, it would be a drop in the bucket. It's that it would require changing all of that stuff, and the car is so original that doing those things would probably cost you more money in value than in actual labor and parts. That's why I guessed that the engine will stay off, the cracked hoses will stay on, and it will sit in a museum in perfect original condition for a hundred years.

It's so sad when these beautiful machines are never driven..what a waste.

Not how this car should be used or was intended, this is wrong on so many levels. If you have a hot girl friend and you only ever stare at her what kind of douche does that make you. It is possible to enjoy a car and not ruin in. Lamest thing I've seen all week.

It's not a girl, it's a car.

I think it would be a crime if there weren't a few pristine examples of these cars hanging around a century or two from now to show the people of the future exactly what they looked like.

 

[McLaren]

Yea, to add to what Famine said, to start an engine that has not been started for decades, you have to pull (and replace) the spark plugs and inject oil directly into the cylinders and crank it by hand. Which is already probably a bridge too far for this car, because it would mean replacing the spark plugs, or even just pulling them, and that would disturb it more than it has been. If it was delivered with gasoline in the tank that wasn't removed, that gas would have to be removed from the tank and the lines. Hopefully someone siphoned the gas a long time ago because it will eat away from the inside. I've heard craziness about cars being worth more with the original tank of gas intact... which is losing sight of the goal IMO. Similarly for coolant. Everything rubber will be cracked and leaking at this point. So all hoses, belts, tires, gaskets, etc. would have to be replaced. Battery has to go.

It's not so much that this is too much money to be spent on this car, it would be a drop in the bucket. It's that it would require changing all of that stuff, and the car is so original that doing those things would probably cost you more money in value than in actual labor and parts. That's why I guessed that the engine will stay off, the cracked hoses will stay on, and it will sit in a museum in perfect original condition for a hundred years.

According to someone in the know with these cars, this is a technique they've used in the past.

AIUI, the problem is that, over a long period, the gravitational weight of the crank on the (bearings separating it from the) block, and the weight of the rods and pistons on the crank, will gradually displace the oil that is intended to create a constant, continuous protective layer between the two surfaces. In that state start the engine as normal, instantly it is turning at say 700rpm or about 12 revs per second, and without the continuous protective layer in place, the surfaces will quickly overheat and begin to score.
I believe that, instead of having to completely disassemble an engine that has not been used for years, the accepted technique is to remove the engine, bolt a long-arm torque wrench to the flywheel, and hand rotate the engine at 0.1 rpm for a while, until the oil has been replenished to all bearing surfaces.

But, I wouldn't say anything is too far with these cars. Engine-out service is a regular interval with these cars & no engine service in the last 20 years works against it because after an example changes hand, no matter condition, the recommended procedure is to have the car shipped to Woking for inspection & to work with the new owner on familiarizing them with the vehicle in addition to any changes they may want, even beyond just a respray. There doesn't appear to be any limit they'll go to keep them all going.

The ownership circle of these cars is very tight as well & the cars are used fairly often making it a next-generation GTO-type club. So, I'm sure there's a chance #060 will find someone who gets her in operational condition and uses her. The cars are too far at a point like the GTO where not using one and letting it sit hurts the values more than using it because the next owner doesn't want to pay the high cost of bringing it back into operational conditions. Even the examples in museums or Lauren's collection to see usage to ensure they're still going.

An added bonus if anyone can understand Japanese. #060 7 years ago in its service center.

 

[PsuPepperoni]

I'd buy it if it wasn't yellow

 

[SilkCutXJR]

Funny, I just wrote a Post about an obscure F1 in the forum yesterday, coincidence?

It absolutely Shocks me that a Mclaren F1 without any customer mileage exists. But then again, I join the choir of guys who say there always be Investment seekers within the customer base. There are so many exotics that were intended to only extend the boundaries of driving, which spend their lives under a cover. I also share the opinion that the car presumably won´t be getting any more miles because it´s unique in it´s entity.

What makes this especially sad is that this purely intended as not "a" driver´s car but "the ultimate" Drivers car, which it just is in my opinion. Closely followed by the F40, at least in Terms of road cars. The Ultimate Drivers car that has´t seen another foot on its pedals than Mclaren´s employees....I wonder what Gordon Murray thinks about that. On the other Hand, things like that exite me so much....I was once in Berlin and in the biggest and most famous Mall (Kinda like harrods, but worse) they had champaign bottles from a German WW2 submarine for sale....never out of their French crate. It´s a bit like this really.

If anyone would have asked me if I would take a yellow F1 I would have said no immediately, but it´s growing on me...Looks surprisingly good.

 

[GT Kelv]

I'd buy it if it wasn't yellow

I absolutely hate that color on this car.

 

[Lukanyon]

My favorite car of all time!

 

[Dan]

I remember hearing previously that the gold inside the engine bay needs to be replaced at some point in the car's life. I wonder if that is the case for #060 on top of all the other parts requiring maintenance.

 

[SilkCutXJR]

I remember hearing previously that the gold inside the engine bay needs to be replaced at some point in the car's life. I wonder if that is the case for #060 on top of all the other parts requiring maintenance.

Really? Gold is one of the most unreactive elements we know of...so corrosion or oxidation could be thrown out of the window. Heat could also not be the case since Gordon Chose it for its heat reflection properties.

 

[Dan]

Heat could also not be the case since Gordon Chose it for its heat reflection properties.

That's what I heard on Top Gear and Jay Leno's Garage when they both featured the F1. I don't remember the details about it needing to be replaced or the specific place I heard it from, though.

 

[Jawehawk]

Awful color for the most beautiful car ever made. Bordering on infuriating that it hasn't seen its day on public roads...

 

[SPhilli911]

I can appreciate a pristine car once and a while, but one that has never been driven outside it's break in period? It is pretty sad to think that some person bought it just to store, taking the chance from someone else to enjoy the car that was built to drive for the sake of personal gain in the future. Buying cars as an investment is just so sad. But on the other hand, we'd never get to see what a "new" F1 was like. Haha who am I kidding, there are used F1s that are in pristine condition too. Poor dude who bought this yellow one could have driven it and sold it for a hefty amount later on.

As for the color, it's a shame it's one of the least fitting colors on the car, but that comes down to personal taste. There is at least one other yellow F1 out there, but that one was since painted white and had LM bits added to it.

 

[TheCracker]

Yea, to add to what Famine said, to start an engine that has not been started for decades, you have to pull (and replace) the spark plugs and inject oil directly into the cylinders and crank it by hand. Which is already probably a bridge too far for this car, because it would mean replacing the spark plugs, or even just pulling them, and that would disturb it more than it has been. If it was delivered with gasoline in the tank that wasn't removed, that gas would have to be removed from the tank and the lines. Hopefully someone siphoned the gas a long time ago because it will eat away from the inside. I've heard craziness about cars being worth more with the original tank of gas intact... which is losing sight of the goal IMO. Similarly for coolant. Everything rubber will be cracked and leaking at this point. So all hoses, belts, tires, gaskets, etc. would have to be replaced. Battery has to go.

Whether the tank have sat with fuel in them or not, the tank will have to be replaced too. They're a motorsports style bag-in-a-kevlar-shell style tank that only has a fairly short operational life. That's an £80k job. But like you say, comparative drop in the ocean.

 

[Maximum11]

Not how this car should be used or was intended, this is wrong on so many levels. If you have a hot girl friend and you only ever stare at her what kind of douche does that make you. It is possible to enjoy a car and not ruin in. Lamest thing I've seen all week.

I had the exact same thought looking at that yellow F1 . It's like a 1995 Baywatch Pamela Anderson untouched 18 years later. The previous owner of the Mc Laren must have been one the guys in The Name of the Rose self-flogging at night.

This car will never be on the road , let's face it.

 

[Danoff]

According to someone in the know with these cars, this is a technique they've used in the past.

But, I wouldn't say anything is too far with these cars. Engine-out service is a regular interval with these cars & no engine service in the last 20 years works against it because after an example changes hand, no matter condition, the recommended procedure is to have the car shipped to Woking for inspection & to work with the new owner on familiarizing them with the vehicle in addition to any changes they may want, even beyond just a respray. There doesn't appear to be any limit they'll go to keep them all going.

The ownership circle of these cars is very tight as well & the cars are used fairly often making it a next-generation GTO-type club. So, I'm sure there's a chance #060 will find someone who gets her in operational condition and uses her. The cars are too far at a point like the GTO where not using one and letting it sit hurts the values more than using it because the next owner doesn't want to pay the high cost of bringing it back into operational conditions. Even the examples in museums or Lauren's collection to see usage to ensure they're still going.

An added bonus if anyone can understand Japanese. #060 7 years ago in its service center.

Wow

They actually start and maintain the car while keeping the wrapping on the interior. That is... kinda bizarre. I'm really struggling to understand the mentality there. You don't care about having the original rubber in the engine (you have to let that go if you're going to keep the engine working), but you do care about preserving the interior enough that you keep it covered, to show that it has never been driven. What about the suspension that hasn't been articulated in 20 years? There's so much rubber in a car. My car has rubber in the steering column. You can't keep all of that maintained and pretend to have locked in factory freshness to the extent of having an unopened package.

I'm at a loss.

Edit:

Let me try to articulate a little better. If you're going to do all that to keep it maintained and running, replacing parts, keeping things fresh. You'll do a better job by taking the wrapping off the interior and putting a few thousand miles on it in the last 20 years. Why would anyone do all of that and not drive it?

 

[McLaren]

Wow

They actually start and maintain the car while keeping the wrapping on the interior. That is... kinda bizarre. I'm really struggling to understand the mentality there. You don't care about having the original rubber in the engine (you have to let that go if you're going to keep the engine working), but you do care about preserving the interior enough that you keep it covered, to show that it has never been driven. What about the suspension that hasn't been articulated in 20 years? There's so much rubber in a car. My car has rubber in the steering column. You can't keep all of that maintained and pretend to have locked in factory freshness to the extent of having an unopened package.

I'm at a loss.

Edit:

Let me try to articulate a little better. If you're going to do all that to keep it maintained and running, replacing parts, keeping things fresh. You'll do a better job by taking the wrapping off the interior and putting a few thousand miles on it in the last 20 years. Why would anyone do all of that and not drive it?

I would attribute it to Japanese culture; there are a lot of high market cars in Japan that are collector pieces that just sit for some reason. The newer generation guys are using their cars more and more, but there are still examples like a F1 GT or F50 GT out there rarely ever seen.

A rare Daytona from Japan in absolutely awful condition just sold for $2 million and will need a years worth of restoration work.

I can appreciate a pristine car once and a while, but one that has never been driven outside it's break in period? It is pretty sad to think that some person bought it just to store, taking the chance from someone else to enjoy the car that was built to drive for the sake of personal gain in the future. Buying cars as an investment is just so sad. But on the other hand, we'd never get to see what a "new" F1 was like. Haha who am I kidding, there are used F1s that are in pristine condition too. Poor dude who bought this yellow one could have driven it and sold it for a hefty amount later on.

As for the color, it's a shame it's one of the least fitting colors on the car, but that comes down to personal taste. There is at least one other yellow F1 out there, but that one was since painted white and had LM bits added to it.

In hindsight, that’s true. But this guy likely bought the car for probably around $1.5million tops and let it accumulate around $1 million/year in value before upkeep costs factored in. That’s a strong increase looking at it if he managed to get close to $20million for it. So I’m sure he’s not too bothered that his investment paid off for him at the end of it.

Remember, the value of these cars over the last 10 years has spiked; I think before the Quail car sold, the last road car exchanged for $8-$10 million some years prior. A couple of the GTRs recently sold for a rumor $7million+ as well through Tom.

 

[SPhilli911]

In hindsight, that’s true. But this guy likely bought the car for probably around $1.5million tops and let it accumulate around $1 million/year in value before upkeep costs factored in. That’s a strong increase looking at it if he managed to get close to $20million for it. So I’m sure he’s not too bothered that his investment paid off for him at the end of it.

Remember, the value of these cars over the last 10 years has spiked; I think before the Quail car sold, the last road car exchanged for $8-$10 million some years prior. A couple of the GTRs recently sold for a rumor $7million+ as well through Tom.

It's a nice payoff in the end for the previous owner of #060, but at the expense of never driving the car you owned for 20 odd years. Just imagine that in conversation, "Yeah, I once owned a Mclaren F1. No idea how it is to drive though."

To me, a $1.5 million initial investment and thoroughly enjoying the car for 20 years and still making a substantial return on investment (even at a low end of $8-10 million) would be the way to go. Look at Rowan Atkinson, who drove the crap out of (and wrecked twice) his F1 and still sold it for $12 million. He had one of the most, if not the most, miles on any F1. He enjoyed it and still came out on top.

 

[McLaren]

It's a nice payoff in the end for the previous owner of #060, but at the expense of never driving the car you owned for 20 odd years. Just imagine that in conversation, "Yeah, I once owned a Mclaren F1. No idea how it is to drive though."

To me, a $1.5 million initial investment and thoroughly enjoying the car for 20 years and still making a substantial return on investment (even at a low end of $8-10 million) would be the way to go. Look at Rowan Atkinson, who drove the crap out of (and wrecked twice) his F1 and still sold it for $12 million. He had one of the most, if not the most, miles on any F1. He enjoyed it and still came out on top.

No doubt there. His gamble didn’t return the max investment he wanted of $25-$27million as the car is worth more driven than sitting around to owners. But, he still made a hefty profit at the end of the day and that’s likely all he cared about; I don’t think he would brag about owning a F1 if it’s only goal was to make him money. Probably an older gentleman who made his fortune through similar outlets.

 

[Danoff]

It's a nice payoff in the end for the previous owner of #060, but at the expense of never driving the car you owned for 20 odd years. Just imagine that in conversation, "Yeah, I once owned a Mclaren F1. No idea how it is to drive though."

To me, a $1.5 million initial investment and thoroughly enjoying the car for 20 years and still making a substantial return on investment (even at a low end of $8-10 million) would be the way to go. Look at Rowan Atkinson, who drove the crap out of (and wrecked twice) his F1 and still sold it for $12 million. He had one of the most, if not the most, miles on any F1. He enjoyed it and still came out on top.

You're talking about selling at $8M on the low end vs. $20M at the high end. Forget the $1.5M sale price, you're telling me it's worth $12M to drive an F1? Comeon. You can apparently buy an F1 outright for $12M. How is it worth that to just drive one then?

To someone who thinks $8M is infinite, and so what's the difference between $8M and $20M, it makes perfect sense to not quibble about the difference. To someone who actually has $20M, the difference between $8M and $20M is actually substantial. You'd need hundreds of millions (or... less than 1M) to not quibble about the difference between 8 and 20.

Edit:

The thing to do here was to take the car around an exclusive track event every once in a while, maybe put 50 miles on it per year or so. The odo would clock in at 1100 miles at this point, it would still be pristine, and it would still fetch absolute top dollar and be in better shape mechanically. Or just drain the gas tank and maybe the radiator and let it be 100% original throughout. Not sure if that would fetch more money.

 

[SPhilli911]

You're talking about selling at $8M on the low end vs. $20M at the high end. Forget the $1.5M sale price, you're telling me it's worth $12M to drive an F1? Comeon. You can apparently buy an F1 outright for $12M. How is it worth that to just drive one then?

To someone who thinks $8M is infinite, and so what's the difference between $8M and $20M, it makes perfect sense to not quibble about the difference. To someone who actually has $20M, the difference between $8M and $20M is actually substantial. You'd need hundreds of millions (or... less than 1M) to not quibble about the difference between 8 and 20.

All I mean is that I would never buy a car as an investment in the first place, personally. The owner of 060 clearly wanted to make money off the car and had no intention of using it for what it was intended for, that's his call. I don't agree with it, so yeah, I suppose it would be worth $12 million to experience a car like that if I had the means. I'm not sitting here thinking how much money I would lose to drive a car, but how I can enjoy the car itself.

But that's why I don't have that kind of money. I live in a dream world where money doesn't matter.

 

[Danoff]

All I mean is that I would never buy a car as an investment in the first place, personally.

I absolutely do not understand why car guys refuse to consider investing in cars. Do you own stock? Do you enjoy owning stock? Do you know as much about the stock market as you do about certain car models? Can you predict the future value of a mutual fund as well as you can predict the future value of a particular car model? Have you ever taken your stock out for a sunday afternoon ride?

Here's a market of appreciating assets that are highly non-volatile, quite predictable, desirable worldwide - whose value is not tied to any particular nation's economy or public policy, and which you know quite a bit about personally. On top of that it's beautiful and fun. But you'd never consider it as an investment. It makes my head explode.