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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on March 15th, 2018 in the Automotive News category.
I am willing to bet zero electric cars are made with the help of coal. That is just silly.Pointless if electric cars use power made with coal or natural gas. Still better than nothing I guess...
He means that the electricity that is used to charge the batteries comes from coal burning facilities. Which is mostly true.I am willing to bet zero electric cars are made with the help of coal. That is just silly.
I did some research and you are absolutely correct. I figured very little coal was utilized to produce new electric cars but I was wrong. However all in all they are still significantly cleaner.He means that the electricity that is used to charge the batteries comes from coal burning facilities. Which is mostly true.
So this will be in the April GT Sport update with a spoiler?
Where at all do you see that? You're in the Auto News sub-forum, not the GTS one.
Oh.....Sorry to talk about Gran Turismo on GTPlanet!!
I thought the front end looked a lot like the teaser picture in the Audi VGT story. Im not sure now I look again though. The bonnet is too high on this EV.
That is good news I don't care about the R8 if there are more and more Coupe/Sport electric cars ! I prefer electric cars and this one looks really nice in the teaser.
The R8 should had died a long time ago
It’s part of the design process, after it goes through feasibility it gets more rational. They just look cool as hell is allIt's never low enough with concept sketches. Here the rim is actually sinking below the floor.
Oh look, a unique argument...Pointless if electric cars use power made with coal or natural gas.
Disagree.They just look cool as hell is all
Build quality.It doesn't really offer anything unique over a Tesla or any other luxury electric car.
Why does it have to? It doesn't. Actually, it does offer something that those others don't: the Audi nameplate and styling characteristics that identify it as such.It doesn't really offer anything unique over a Tesla or any other luxury electric car.
I agree completely, but that's not what this is.an electric supercar type thing for road use seems totally pointless
Like an A3.Build quality.
Because if it doesn't offer a different experience to an electric saloon car then I'm not paying double or triple the price for it and what a waste of money it would be to have it as a second car.Why does it have to? It doesn't. Actually, it does offer something that those others don't: the Audi nameplate and styling characteristics that identify it as such.
Tesla revealed a market for such a vehicle, and it's only logical that other companies vie for market share.
I agree completely, but that's not what this is.
Clearly you're not their target consumer.Because if it doesn't offer a different experience to an electric saloon car then I'm not paying double or triple the price for it and what a waste of money it would be to have it as a second car.
I brought up the badge and associated styling language, not because I have any particular allegiance to Audi (it's one of just two major German marques available here that I have yet to have owned an example of, and I feel no urgency to do so--the other is BMW), but because it offers something I feel is important...choice.As far as I'm aware it offers the same badge as an A3 electric (if it exists/when it exists)
It seems we have wildly different opinions on what luxury is. My last three daily drivers had leather seats and only the most recent one, an Acura ZDX that is starting to show its age, offers anything even remotely akin to what I consider luxury. But it really doesn't.nicer leather
Nice.Clearly you're not their target consumer.
Me? I've made up my mind that my next new vehicle is going to be an electric and I'm at a point in my life where I desire some luxury and can justify the expense (to an extent) associated with it. I don't want a cobbled-together econobox that creaks and rattles down the road, "but at least it's electric." I'm holding out, however, because I really don't want a Tesla.
I brought up the badge and associated styling language, not because I have any particular allegiance to Audi (it's one of just two major German marques available here that I have yet to have owned an example of, and I feel no urgency to do so--the other is BMW), but because it offers something I feel is important...choice.
It seems we have wildly different opinions on what luxury is. My last three daily drivers had leather seats and only the most recent one, an Acura ZDX that is starting to show its age, offers anything even remotely akin to what I consider luxury. But it really doesn't.
True luxury, to me, is so far beyond material quality. True luxury means being able to cross vast swaths of land in considerable comfort, being all but completely oblivious to variation in terrain, having a powertrain be completely unstressed at moderate speed, having minimal road or wind noise make it into the occupant compartment and being unaware of road (or lack thereof) debris pinging against the underside of the vehicle. There are other qualities, of course, but none of those listed have the least bit to do with what animal got peeled to allow me to sit my ass down.
And you know this because you're so keyed-in on the development of this Audi? It's true, these qualities are present in a Rolls, but that supports remarks I've made. In order to carry itself along in the manner that I stipulated, a vehicle kind of needs to be large.Your description is more like Rolls Royce than whatever this Audi is... ...You basically need quiet tyres, sound proofing, noise cancellation.
More like an A8. Well, maybe an A7 Sportback. Just fully electric.Like an A3.
At 70mph neither of those make much of a difference. I'd suggest that there's a significantly larger difference in the number of seats, boot volume and visibility - all in the A3's favour.The biggest difference between an A3 2.0 TDI and an R8 is the V10 sound and the straight line performance.
The C200d and C63 are different grades of the same model. The Model S and the Model 3 are different models.The difference between a Mercedes C200d and a C63 is mental. Completely different animal. The difference between a Tesla Model S and whatever the new cheap one is called?
This just sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing. Audi has never in its history made a car to compete with Rolls Royce and you think it is not reasonable to assume that an upcoming "GT" is also not going to be a Rolls Royce rival?And you know this because you're so keyed-in on the development of this Audi?
And all of this was easier with engines, transmission tunnels, exhausts, fuel tanks etc was it? There was no engineering required to make every component of the engine quiet because it wasn't already quiet by design? Who said anything about cars having to be small? I don't get the point. Are you telling me electric cars are special and have their own character because they can be vary in size? Or agreeing with me that it is easier than with an ICE car? Can you tell me which is quieter at speed - A Ford Fiesta or a Nissan Leaf?It's true, these qualities are present in a Rolls, but that supports remarks I've made. In order to carry itself along in the manner that I stipulated, a vehicle kind of needs to be large.
Insulation takes up space, so if you cram more insulation into, say, the Nissan Leaf you cited (and hey, the fact that I've driven one allows me to better compare these qualities), you're going to be cutting into the cabin volume. Insulation also adds weight, so in order to retain a robust drive unit to move the added weight along effectively, things are going to get larger and will still need to be kept cool, so allowing for the increased component dimensions and area for them to "breathe," the already small interior is getting even smalle
Now, the Leaf is also getting heavier still with these additions, so more robust suspension components will be required, and they're probably going to be larger and need more space. Some of the components required to operate the power unit are in the way, so they'll have to be moved. The bigger battery necessary to power the larger motor without reducing distance travelled on a charge also no longer fits in its place. That's okay, the displaced components can be put in the backseat (need the trunk for the obligatory golf bag). Well, this more luxurious Leaf just became a 2-seater and can no longer compete with the Model S.
Now those tires... Well, larger diameter tires make differences in terrain less apparent because the increased diameter spans gaps better, and they'll absorb more unwanted sensations you get rolling down the road, but you need to steer them and you haven't the clearance. Let's move that pesky motor to where the passenger seat was once positioned.
LuxLeaf is now a single-seater, but the big electric motor next to you didn't eat up all of the space once taken up by that seat, so the driver's seat can be made more robust and supportive. And that motor offers plenty of warmth for those trips to the ski chalet.
...
Yeah, that's all pretty ridiculous, but it illustrates that a small car will never be truly luxurious, and even if you're okay with that, there are lots of people interested in that sort of opulence who are willing to buy into it.
Edit: Whoops! Part of the reason I thought it so prudent to mention having driven a Leaf was that I noted significant noise in the drivetrain as speed increased to highway rates. Odd considering the "hush-hush" electric motor that's "the same as" what's in a Tesla.
The A3 is a well made car. The R8 always looked like a V10 powered TT to my eyes, not comparable to the A8. But I suppose I have no idea about this one, if it does have A8 quality then whoohoo, buy an A8 instead.More like an A8. Well, maybe an A7 Sportback. Just fully electric.
So you often get into a car, instantly reach 70mph and stay there in a straight line until the destination? And even then, I can tell the difference. Can you tell me which aspects of the electric car make a difference at 70mph? You have just picked a very specific scenario I rarely find myself in to try to convince me all those things I said make no difference when of course they do.At 70mph neither of those make much of a difference. I'd suggest that there's a significantly larger difference in the number of seats, boot volume and visibility - all in the A3's favour.
I think that's the second time you've done that lol. I don't know if this was meant to counter my point or what but you've just emphasised my point. The C200d and C63 are the same model yet the difference is a million miles greater than the difference between two separate Tesla models - lowest power car they sell and highest power car they sell - in driving experience.The C200d and C63 are different grades of the same model. The Model S and the Model 3 are different models.
Yes they are comparable to Tesla. The C200d and E220d and A200d and any other with that engine is exactly like the Teslas - virtually the same driving characteristics. The point was that the C200d and C63 aren't comparable like all Teslas and that they have much more variation and unique experiences, even though they're the same model.If you're looking between different models, a better question would be what the difference is between a C200d and an E220d - or an S350d. If you're looking between different grades of the same model, a better question would be what's the difference between the Tesla Model S 75 and the Tesla Model S P100D.
No, I said I can't get my head around why anyone is interested in the new Audi electric GT or the new Mercedes electric GT or the new Ferrari electric GT or the new Porsche electric GT when they're almost indistinguishable apart from the way they look and don't offer the drastically different experience that current and past supercars doI can't tell, but your points seem to suggest that you think Audi shouldn't bother making a big electric car because the batteries and motors mean you can't tell electric cars apart from each other, and because Tesla already makes a car like this.
With the TT the engine is in the front and drives the front or all four wheels. With the R8 the engine (V8 originally, then V10; exclusively V10 now) is behind you and drives the rear or all four wheels.The A3 is a well made car. The R8 always looked like a V10 powered TT to my eyes, not comparable to the A8.
The A8 isn't a BEV.But I suppose I have no idea about this one, if it does have A8 quality then whoohoo, buy an A8 instead.
Pretty much. That's the point of arterial roads - you set off from A, get onto the arterial road network within a couple of miles, get off it a couple of miles from B and then end up at B.So you often get into a car, instantly reach 70mph and stay there in a straight line until the destination?
Aside from the fact it's usually quieter in an EV, I doubt it.And even then, I can tell the difference.
None at all. For almost all of the market there's very little difference between any car and any other car at constant cruising speeds. Cheaper cars generally echo more, SUVs generally have more wind noise, cars with big wheels generally have more road noise and EVs are generally quieter. Aside from weight and susceptibility to air movements from wind and lorries, there's not a huge difference between driving at 70mph in a Volkswagen up! and doing it in a Bentley Flying Spur.Can you tell me which aspects of the electric car make a difference at 70mph?
You said two things, which were the V10 sound and straight line performance, as the major difference between a diesel A3 and an R8 V10. I pointed out the fact that the R8 only has two seats and smaller boot are significantly larger differences because, day to day, a V10 and straight line performance don't matter. Most driving is cruising at the speed limit, changing to go faster or slower for the next speed limit, and slowing down from or speeding up to the speed limit because of a junction. Hitting 30mph in 1.2 seconds in a cacophony of ten-cylinder madness, then staying there isn't exactly a huge world of difference from coasting up to it in five or six seconds with a diesel clatter and then staying there.You have just picked a very specific scenario I rarely find myself in to try to convince me all those things I said make no difference when of course they do.
If you sit in a C200d there's almost no difference from a C63, except some AMG badges, different seats (exact specification depending) and a bit of carbon fibre trim. And a Performance+ mode in the driving mode selector. Whether you're at a junction, sat in traffic or cruising at 30/40/50/60/70mph, there's no really relevant difference between them.I think that's the second time you've done that lol. I don't know if this was meant to counter my point or what but you've just emphasised my point. The C200d and C63 are the same model yet the difference is a million miles greater than the difference between two separate Tesla models - lowest power car they sell and highest power car they sell - in driving experience.
That's interesting, because the A200d is front-wheel drive (4MATIC optional) and the engine is transverse, while the C200d is rear-wheel drive and the engine is longitudinal, and the E220d is rear-wheel drive (4MATIC optional) and the engine is longitudinal. And the 200 is a 1.6-litre, while the 220 is a 2-litre. And the A is a hatchback, while the C and E are saloons, convertibles, coupes and estates. Did I mention the E220d is a 9-speed automatic, while the A and C offer 7-speed autos, or a 6-speed manual?Yes they are comparable to Tesla. The C200d and E220d and A200d and any other with that engine is exactly like the Teslas - virtually the same driving characteristics.
You've not established how much variation and unique experiences the two cars offer - but then you literally only came up with two differences for an Audi A3 2.0 TDI and an Audi R8; the R8 makes a V10 sound and has more performance.The point was that the C200d and C63 aren't comparable like all Teslas and that they have much more variation and unique experiences, even though they're the same model.
I'm not familiar with the Ferrari - Ferrari has said it intends to build a V8 hybrid petrol, for its new "FAV" (SUV, but a Ferrari), but no EVs, and not in a GT as far as I can tell. Nor Mercedes, for that matter. Mercedes is certainly big on developing electrified drivetrains, and AMG is going to develop performance variants, but other than an EV SUV under the EQ brand, EVs aren't in the schedule yet, and there's no EV GT I'm aware of.No, I said I can't get my head around why anyone is interested in the new Audi electric GT or the new Mercedes electric GT or the new Ferrari electric GT or the new Porsche electric GT when they're almost indistinguishable apart from the way they look.
What?And all of this was easier with engines, transmission tunnels, exhausts, fuel tanks etc was it? There was no engineering required to make every component of the engine quiet because it wasn't already quiet by design? Who said anything about cars having to be small? I don't get the point. Are you telling me electric cars are special and have their own character because they can be vary in size? Or agreeing with me that it is easier than with an ICE car?
I can't get my head around why you seem to think everyone has to think the same way you do.I can't get my head around why anyone is interested in...
Or it has to do with, you know, the general electrification of the automotive industry.I imagine a lot of this car has to do with cleaning up the VW/Audi Dieselgate scandal.
As do I.I expect this car to be well received.
Or it has to do with, you know, the general electrification of the automotive industry.
As do I.