GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Joe Donaldson (@Joey D) on April 17th, 2018 in the Automotive News category.
Pagani Looking to Venture Into the World of Electric Vehicles
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 34 comments
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- xbox lol haha
Those AMG V12 engines.... Just ridiculous masterpieces! The heart of their cars.
- 2,227
- Bács-Kiskun
It's time to move on from the Zonda and the Huayra - both are aging great, but they are a bit outdated.
JacoJa
Premium
- 2,327
- Australia
I will say that I just spent the weekend with a 90D Tesla Model S, and that thing was anything but boring. I'm a massive petrolhead, but after driving that thing extensively, I'm beginning to question the need to own a petrol car for its entertainment values. I will probably always own a Manual for the involvement, but I'm convinced sports cars don't need to be loud to be exciting.
I found this video interesting also. Could we soon see an electric Koenigsegg?
- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
I think they can squeeze out at least 40 more special versions of the Huayra before it's done.
- 6,260
- Ottawa
- Pyano1132
They have the brand name, so I hope they can stick the landing better than these other pop-ups in recent years.
- 11,802
- Marin County
I have a lot of faith in Horacio Pagani and I'm excited to see what he can do with this concept.
JacoJa
Premium
- 2,327
- Australia
That could be the case with the older RWD cars (never driven, so couldn't tell), but the duel motor version I was using felt far from a granny car. Acceleration was extremely brisk even from 50mph, and flat-out from 30mph made me laugh out loud like some nutcase. Maybe it was the instant torque available at any speed, or the linear acceleration... It felt amazing. Better than the Cayman S I owned, or the 6.2L HSV I used to drive regularly. Just my opinion.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
The whole point in a fast 0-60mph time is not burning rubber...
Here's a whole bunch of mid-range acceleration figures. 70-90mph times are supercar-rivalling — maybe that's what grannies drive around your area, but not mine:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/0-60-30-50-50-70-comparative-times-for-70d-85d-p85d.46923/
A Model S is a pretty great bigger city car if that's what you're looking for. Judging by the number of them around TO, it seems a fair amount of people are.
I think if anybody is going to really knock an electric hypercar out of the park, it'd be Pagani. Merc did that four-motored SLS a while back; imagine what Horacio could do...
KingFrog
(Banned)
- 837
- NOYB
My modded SA RX7 outputting 202HP at 144 psi does 60-100 at 3.8 seconds. That build cost me around 3 grand. . enjoy an overpriced car that can't even do a respectable lap around any race track. Tesla's can't beat Gtr's doing a 60 mph roll.The whole point in a fast 0-60mph time is not burning rubber...
Here's a whole bunch of mid-range acceleration figures. 70-90mph times are supercar-rivalling — maybe that's what grannies drive around your area, but not mine:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/0-60-30-50-50-70-comparative-times-for-70d-85d-p85d.46923/
A Model S is a pretty great bigger city car if that's what you're looking for. Judging by the number of them around TO, it seems a fair amount of people are.
I think if anybody is going to really knock an electric hypercar out of the park, it'd be Pagani. Merc did that four-motored SLS a while back; imagine what Horacio could do...
https://www.carscoops.com/2016/09/the-tesla-model-s-p85-makes-for-awful/
Yawn. what a crappy car. Considering the guy I replied to said it could replace a conventional car for all my entertainment needs. I hope Horacio can build his electric Pagani, but the technology is pretty far out for it to be a real contender. As it is now I'm literally better off hooning in my RX-7, don't have to worry about it over heating like a tesla HAHAH! https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/p90d-overheating
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
144psi?
Your 200hp car averages more than 10mph/second in acceleration from 60 to 100? That's... something, since a modern Focus RS takes nearly double to do it with 350hp. That's 458 Italia and Gallardo territory. Even if it does manage that, you're talking a stripped-out 30+ year old two-seater. It isn't so much apples to oranges as apples to pizza.
Yeah, a quick luxury car can't hang with dedicated supercars around a circuit. The nerve!
You're (possibly intentionally) missing the point I believe @JacoJa was making: as an overall package, the Model S is appealing. You're focusing on a handful of metrics (high-speed acceleration, lap times) which apply to a tiny portion of the car's target audience.
But that's a five- or six-figure performance sedan, you might say, and hypercar buyers will demand more. You're right; the SLS Electric Drive hit 155mph years ago, and Rimac's cars are electronically limited to well over 200mph. I would not be surprised if a Pagani e-supercar is more like the latter than the former. And top speeds are little more than a game of Top Trumps as is.
What sort of cars are grannies driving in your area, again?
Yes, because turbo'd decade-old rotaries are a bastion of reliability.
Oh, and since you seemed to miss it: re-read the Acceptable Use Policy. 👍
KingFrog
(Banned)
- 837
- NOYB
That was the joke since rotaries are notorious for overheating. My car doesn't overheat like every single Tesla does, which results in the car restricting power at around 115-130 mph. Also, its a myth that rotaries are unreliable, they are simply high maintenance. My dad hasn't changed the oil in his beater Toyota truck in years and it still runs, my RX-7 will literally implode if I skip an oil change. Ironically both rotary and electric engines face the exact same issue, heat. In the future, electric engines will have to be cooled by oil/ water. hopefullyy, the power cells ( batteries) will also be lighter. Lucky electric engines aren't running any fluids through them, rotaries are prone to leaking through the dowels due to heat.
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- Munich
- Hitokiri-666
Guys?! You can´t be serious?! How in the entire world would you ever prefer driving an full electric Pagani instead of a Pagani Zonda with a perfect AMG V12 that trembles everything around it?? HOW?? Are all petrolhead (like me) dead by now?? I really can`t understand it.
But ok... go ahead, drive your envoirement destroing (battery production and removal with all the toxics) full e-cars. That means that I will still have petrol until my last days, for my supercars with a good old perfected combustion enginge.
But ok... go ahead, drive your envoirement destroing (battery production and removal with all the toxics) full e-cars. That means that I will still have petrol until my last days, for my supercars with a good old perfected combustion enginge.
- 3,070
- Norway
The M120 has already been replaced by the M158. The M158, though impressive in its own right, already lacks those characteristics you're describing. The M158 might disappear soon as well and will probably not have a direct replacement. Which leaves us with the M177/M178, a twin turbo V8. At that stage, does it really make a big difference?
- 2,964
- Buckinghamshire
- GTP_Snorevette
But ok... go ahead, drive your envoirement destroing (battery production and removal with all the toxics) full e-cars. That means that I will still have petrol until my last days, for my supercars with a good old perfected combustion enginge.
I'll be the first to admit that electric cars are still far from truly environmentally friendly, but are you trying to argue that battery production and disposal is more harmful to the environment than everything that goes on in the oil industry?
- 1,632
- Mass UTC-5
- HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
That is just disgusting to hear. Electric cars always have and always will be cancer.
Notice on youtube, thousands of videos of car sounds, and top 10's of real cars. To pretend like the sound, and the feeling of a real car isn't important is just a lie. Real cars will always be superior to electric trash.
No we're not dead. Most petrolheads, are real petrolheads. People that like electric cars are in the minority.
Notice on youtube, thousands of videos of car sounds, and top 10's of real cars. To pretend like the sound, and the feeling of a real car isn't important is just a lie. Real cars will always be superior to electric trash.
Guys?! You can´t be serious?! How in the entire world would you ever prefer driving an full electric Pagani instead of a Pagani Zonda with a perfect AMG V12 that trembles everything around it?? HOW?? Are all petrolhead (like me) dead by now?? I really can`t understand it.
But ok... go ahead, drive your envoirement destroing (battery production and removal with all the toxics) full e-cars. That means that I will still have petrol until my last days, for my supercars with a good old perfected combustion enginge.
No we're not dead. Most petrolheads, are real petrolheads. People that like electric cars are in the minority.
- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
That must be why companies are spending billions of dollars developing new electric car technology.
Also, even petrol cars are getting quieter as technology improves. Of course why the noise a Pagani makes is even an issue confuses me as it makes no noise regardless of it's power source when it's parked in a climate controlled garage for 99.99% of it's life.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Cue the hyperbolic knee-jerk responses from the types of folks that believe it's an either/or situation with electric and ICE cars. White & Nerdy would be proud. 👍
I thought the joke was the supercar rivalling pace of a 200hp 30-year old car.
Not that that's a unique issue in electric cars. Plenty of cars have power-restricting limp-home modes, including the Vette.
Those words mean something different. Don't get me wrong — I've heard a Zonda start up and it's an awesome, awesome sound. Sound is just one aspect of the appeal of the ICE, too; it covers other senses. But by that same token, a powerful electric engine does things ICE engines just can't.
I like pizza. I also like burgers. And steak. So I eat all three. Limiting myself to one would be silly.
I thought the joke was the supercar rivalling pace of a 200hp 30-year old car.
Not that that's a unique issue in electric cars. Plenty of cars have power-restricting limp-home modes, including the Vette.
Those words mean something different. Don't get me wrong — I've heard a Zonda start up and it's an awesome, awesome sound. Sound is just one aspect of the appeal of the ICE, too; it covers other senses. But by that same token, a powerful electric engine does things ICE engines just can't.
I like pizza. I also like burgers. And steak. So I eat all three. Limiting myself to one would be silly.
KingFrog
(Banned)
- 837
- NOYB
Yes. We basically have to rebuild our electric grid. I HATE the fact people conveniently ignore that MAJOR fact. That gargantuan task includes making millions upon millions of miles of metal wire. Producing ten times the amount of current electric output. In the long run ( 100-300 years) years It will be cleaner. That's assuming the west is still the global superpower in that time, but it most likely won't. And unless India and China skip their development stages, the magical electric car won't actually be eco-friendly any time soon.
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Scaff
Moderator
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
India and China currently are in the process of doing so.
They are one of the largest manufacturers and users of wind turbines on the planet, and the largest in both for solar.
They also (China in particular) have the advantages of not being culturally wed to any particular fuel type, or for large parts of the country to any particular fuel infrastructure.
Then add in a young population with not cultural fixation on petrol, but a very strong one for technological adoption (and a good disposable income) and you have the exact opposite story to the one you suggest.
Oh and add in a damn good reason to do it in terms of smog reduction in pretty much all towns and cities.
It's also not going to take 100+ years to change over either, the tipping point to majority hybrid/pure electric could well be within 7 to 10 years (based on the majority of models I've worked with recently).
McLaren
Premium
- 45,412
- Texas
These "purist" comments are a laugh, much like the old days of people complaining about this same exotic industry phasing out manual transmissions. They gave people a chance to vote with their wallet and the end result was that 95% of these people upset weren't anywhere close to being in the realm of affording the car to begin with.
Same situation here, complaining about Pagani going electric; highly doubtful any one on this forum is going to be invited to the private revealing where the car sells out before the public ever actually gets wind of it and we end up here again in a new thread. No reason for Pagani to put much stock in the opinions of people who can't support the company financially to begin with whilst a changing industry pushes them towards this in the first place.
By such standards, the Veyron is also a terrible car and it fully engulfs the idea of an over-the-top petrol engine.
Same situation here, complaining about Pagani going electric; highly doubtful any one on this forum is going to be invited to the private revealing where the car sells out before the public ever actually gets wind of it and we end up here again in a new thread. No reason for Pagani to put much stock in the opinions of people who can't support the company financially to begin with whilst a changing industry pushes them towards this in the first place.
This may be one of the dumbest articles written along with your logic; it can't match a 918 lap time. Wow, who would've thought? That same supercar must be terrible, too if an AMG GTR, ACR, & a ZR1 all run similar lap times for a fraction of the cost.
By such standards, the Veyron is also a terrible car and it fully engulfs the idea of an over-the-top petrol engine.
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Scaff
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- ScaffUK
Taken in isolation yes, but it has to be balanced against the reduction in footprint of the ICE powered vehicles it replaces.
Even taking into account the environmental impact of generating the energy to power an EV, they are still significantly less of an impact that ICE's, by up to 50 times less CO2 produced per km, as they are significantly better in terms of power efficiency than ICEs. As electric generation moves to lower impact models that difference will only increase, and ICE's have almost zero hope of even keeping pace.
In the West as far as re-fueling infrastructure goes it has a lot lower initial footprint that many suspect, particularly given the advances in recharging speeds and efficiencies, not to mention that EV's (particularly for commercial) allow for battery swaps.
As such I would not agree that we would be looking at clsoe to 100+ years to see benefit from this at all.
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