GT Sport FIA Online Championship Expands to Cover Italy, But All is Not What it Seems...

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

GT Sport FIA Online Championship Expands to Cover Italy, But All is Not What it Seems...

This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on August 16th, 2018 in the Gran Turismo Sport category.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

If none are eligible, Sony will donate the prize to the Quintomondo Onlus Association — an animal shelter near Rome.

Hope this is the money and not the PS Pro. AFAIK dogs may find it hard to play GT Sport.

 

[D-Max]

You done well, Have a console you evidently already have but a little better (if you don't have a pro that is). Silly prize in my eyes.

 

[Lord Protector]

Yeah, thanks for not mentioning me. I pointed this out.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...or-italy-scendi-in-pista-con-gt-sport.380950/

 

[Famine]

Yeah, thanks for not mentioning me. I pointed this out.

I don't remember seeing any Conversation messages from you pointing it out. Perhaps you sent it to another member of the writing team?

Personally, I saw it when I booted my PS4 up yesterday and went into Sport Mode. The game flashed up new T&Cs and I read them before accepting them (as... you know... I read things I agree to). The Italian thing was mentioned in the sixth line, along with the new - and bizarre - clauses much further down.

 

[Lord Protector]

I don't remember seeing any Conversation messages from you pointing it out. Perhaps you sent it to another member of the writing team?

Personally, I saw it when I booted my PS4 up yesterday and went into Sport Mode. The game flashed up new T&Cs and I read them before accepting them (as... you know... I read things I agree to). The Italian thing was mentioned in the sixth line, along with the new - and bizarre - clauses much further down.

Yes, but I pointed it out first here. Not that I care if you mention me or anything, it's just a nice thing to do. Are you telling me you weren't aware of my thread?

 

[Famine]

Yes, but I pointed it out first here. Not that I care if you mention me or anything, it's just a nice thing to do. Are you telling me you weren't aware of my thread?

Generally speaking, the writing team don't have that much time to browse the forums and go "Oooh, that's an interesting topic that might make a news article". Sometimes it happens by chance, but a lot of the time it doesn't.

If we first become aware of something that might make a news article from, as a rough example, a giant message popping up in the game that you can't just skip past, that's the source.

If we first become aware of something that might make a news article from, as a rough example, a member sending the writing team (or the editors) a Conversation message saying "a giant message just popped up in the game that you can't just skip past", they're the source and will get a little note in italics at the end saying "Thanks to ... for the tip", or similar.

That aside, it's just a nice thing to do. It helps the site out by giving us GT news to write about to stop people whining about all the car stuff.

 

[micmansour]

Hope this is the money and not the PS Pro. AFAIK dogs may indicate it hard to play GT Sport.

The average bull terrier would drive a lot cleaner than some of the humans I encounter in this game

 

[mthomas_95]

The obvious thing to have done now Italy is eligible is to open up the Star Player registration for them as well so they can compete in the Top 24 races and qualify to the Regional and Manufacturer finals the same way everyone else does.

Of course that would be far too sensible

 

[Auditore]

So they are basically giving money to Italian Players,you can sell the PS Pro.

 

[Famine]

So they are basically giving money to Italian Players,you can sell the PS Pro.

So, my recollection of Italian gambling laws is not the best, but I think this was one of the fundamental issues.

The FIA Online Championships are essentially a competition that require investment - you need a PS4, GT Sport and PS Plus to compete; unlike GT Academy there are no live events, so you must pay to enter the competition.

They're also a competition with an intangible prize, or at least a prize without a specific monetary value. There's obviously a prize (all expenses paid trip to the regional and/or world finals) but it doesn't have a specific, taxable value. And, worse, it's not guaranteed - it's possible that no Italians could win.

In basic terms, that's a competition that costs money to enter and has no guaranteed prize of any taxable value to any entrant. You can see why countries with stern gambling laws might have a bit of a problem with it.


So Sony has changed the rules for Italy. Italian players aren't entering the FIA Online Championships, they're entering "Scendi in pista con GT Sport". This looks remarkably similar to the FIA Championships, but is open only to Italian players. It has a PS4 Pro as the prize for the winners of each of the Nations and Manufacturer series within Italy, so Sony can give a tangible prize with specific, taxable value. In fact the competition rules set out that value now: €336.06.

Sony is then free to include Italian players in the further rounds of the FIA Online Championships, which don't take place in Italy and don't require Italian players to spend money to enter it.


The problem I have is with clauses 5.5 and 5.6, which really seem to say that if an Italian player who doesn't qualify for Manufacturers/World Final has a higher FIA points score than a player who has qualified, the Italian replaces the qualified player:

5.4 The manufacturers with the sixteen highest scores aggregated from all the scores of global competitions shall be represented in the Manufacturer Series Final (each a “Final Manufacturer”).

5.5 Subject to clause 5.6 below, the Entrant with the highest Final Score for their corresponding Final Manufacturer at the end of Season 3 shall proceed to the Manufacturer Series World Final (each a “Manufacturer Series Finalist”) which shall take place at the Gran Turismo® Championships World Final .

5.6 Where an Italian resident competing in the Gran Turismo® Italian competition entitled ‘Scendi in pista con GT Sport’ attains a higher Final Score for their corresponding Final Manufacturer than the highest Final Score attained by an Entrant of that Final Manufacturer, the Italian resident shall be invited to participate in the Manufacturer Series World Final and become a Manufacturer Series Finalist in lieu of the aforementioned Entrant.

I can't come up with a scenario where this affects any other EMEA players, but I can easily see it affecting Asia/Pacific and Americas players. If you're the top player in the Americas for one of the 16 qualifying manufacturers, but an Italian player for the same manufacturer has more FIA points than you, they go and you don't...

... unless I'm reading that wrong?

And if I'm not, this could be extremely contentious.

 

[Cabelmania]

For the moment the italians can't sign for the S player status, unfortunaly Tried this morning, immediatly after @mclarenLB noted the change

EDIT: https://www.gran-turismo.com/it/gtsport/fia2018/starplayer/ Right after I spoke but still no Italy in the actual registration for the moment

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

The Italian mob has infiltrated GT Sport.

 

[Sharkart_Kun]

So... This means that now I'm battling Giorgio directly for a spot with ford on the finals??? fml
If I lost the spot because of this I could sue them for changing the clauses mid championship, couldn´t I?

 

[mclarenLB]

So... This means that now I'm battling Giorgio directly for a spot with ford on the finals??? fml
If I lost the spot because of this I could sue them for changing the clauses mid championship, couldn´t I?

Nope. Because one of the original championship clauses you accepted was the fact that they could change at any time.

 

[Famine]

So... This means that now I'm battling Giorgio directly for a spot with ford on the finals???

That's how I'd read it, but I'm just not sure.

If I lost the spot because of this I could sue them for changing the clauses mid championship, couldn´t I?

Nope. Because one of the original championship clauses you accepted was the fact that they could change at any time.

15. The Promoter reserves the right to cancel the Competition or amend these Terms at any stage, if deemed necessary in its opinion or if circumstances arise outside its control.

 

[Sharkart_Kun]

Thanks guys!

If I understood correctly it'll basically be like this: if the ford drivers get in the top 24SS in all three regions Giorgio is out because he can't get the points multiplier. If one region misses the top 24SS, he is in. This is awkward

 

[GT Sport]

Next stop: Greece.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I believe they don't care anymore and just do random stuff for this championship. I'm glad Italians are able to take part but this way is an absolute joke, especially mid-season. Bet this is not only the first FIA series on GT, but that it will also be the last.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I believe they don't care anymore and just do random stuff for this championship. I'm glad Italians are able to take part but this way is an absolute joke, especially mid-season. Bet this is not only the first FIA series on GT, but that it will also be the last.

Famine just explained every single move PD has made except for clauses 5.5 and 5.6. Unless you're specifically referring to them, please review your statement.

@Famine do you have any articles regarding competition in Italy in general? I'm guessing PD had to oblige to some fine print

 

[Auditore]

So, my recollection of Italian gambling laws is not the best, but I think this was one of the fundamental issues.

The FIA Online Championships are essentially a competition that require investment - you need a PS4, GT Sport and PS Plus to compete; unlike GT Academy there are no live events, so you must pay to enter the competition.

They're also a competition with an intangible prize, or at least a prize without a specific monetary value. There's obviously a prize (all expenses paid trip to the regional and/or world finals) but it doesn't have a specific, taxable value. And, worse, it's not guaranteed - it's possible that no Italians could win.

In basic terms, that's a competition that costs money to enter and has no guaranteed prize of any taxable value to any entrant. You can see why countries with stern gambling laws might have a bit of a problem with it.


So Sony has changed the rules for Italy. Italian players aren't entering the FIA Online Championships, they're entering "Scendi in pista con GT Sport". This looks remarkably similar to the FIA Championships, but is open only to Italian players. It has a PS4 Pro as the prize for the winners of each of the Nations and Manufacturer series within Italy, so Sony can give a tangible prize with specific, taxable value. In fact the competition rules set out that value now: €336.06.

Sony is then free to include Italian players in the further rounds of the FIA Online Championships, which don't take place in Italy and don't require Italian players to spend money to enter it.


The problem I have is with clauses 5.5 and 5.6, which really seem to say that if an Italian player who doesn't qualify for Manufacturers/World Final has a higher FIA points score than a player who has qualified, the Italian replaces the qualified player:

I can't come up with a scenario where this affects any other EMEA players, but I can easily see it affecting Asia/Pacific and Americas players. If you're the top player in the Americas for one of the 16 qualifying manufacturers, but an Italian player for the same manufacturer has more FIA points than you, they go and you don't...

... unless I'm reading that wrong?

And if I'm not, this could be extremely contentious.

This is why when this issue popped up i said PD/Sony lawyers must be working 24/7 with a coffee only diet,working out this stuff must be stressful as hell,and it's a shame Italian players have to go through so much text to know if they are eligible for the FIA Cup.

My hope is that all these issues get worked out before the 2019 Season opens

 

[GT_Alex74]

Famine just explained every single move PD has made except for clauses 5.5 and 5.6. Unless you're specifically referring to them, please review your statement.

The thing is they now don't play by the same rules as everyone else. They don't even need to be superstar players from what I understand, although they won't be able to take part in the top 24 races. This would have been an easy fix though, by just allowing italian players who still raced season 1 and 2 to retroactively get the S ranking (which is so far just an in-game thing, if the informations stuff is causing legal issues they could have as well changed the application form for italian people). This would have allowed everyone to fight in the same conditions, although the fact they've been denied top 24 races in previous seasons and only know they are eligible in the middle of last season is a disadvantage. But no, PoDi / Sony / whoever is taking care of that just decided to let them live with a bigger disadvantage, and try to compensate with a potential advantage at the end of the season.

 

[Auditore]

The thing is they now don't play by the same rules as everyone else. They don't even need to be superstar players from what I understand, although they won't be able to take part in the top 24 races. This would have been an easy fix though, by just allowing italian players who still raced season 1 and 2 to retroactively get the S ranking (which is so far just an in-game thing, if the informations stuff is causing legal issues they could have as well changed the application form for italian people). This would have allowed everyone to fight in the same conditions, although the fact they've been denied top 24 races in previous seasons and only know they are eligible in the middle of last season is a disadvantage. But no, PoDi / Sony / whoever is taking care of that just decided to let them live with a bigger disadvantage, and try to compensate with a potential advantage at the end of the season.

The main problem is that PD might not have a say in this,the Italian government has the final say

 

[GT_Alex74]

PoDi definitely has a say about how they want to run their stuff in-game. The government can only have a say about the legality of a contest in their country based on financial stuff and maybe data protection related things. Nothing that would have prevented PoDi from giving italian players the right to have a chance to register for top 24 races.

 

[PaMu1337]

You done well, Have a console you evidently already have but a little better (if you don't have a pro that is). Silly prize in my eyes.

Sony has a tendency of doing this. There have been a lot of competitions on PS4 games where the prize was another PS4. They could at the very least give a different Sony product (TV, phone, PS VR etc.).

 

[G1acom011]

Thanks guys!

If I understood correctly it'll basically be like this: if the ford drivers get in the top 24SS in all three regions Giorgio is out because he can't get the points multiplier. If one region misses the top 24SS, he is in. This is awkward

But with if there will be the same lucky of the GT World Tour for him, he can qualifies.

 

[HellzFire]

The thing is, european rooms usually give a lot more points than the americans at least (can't say much about the asians), because they have more level capped players, so be prepared to some spots being taken by them, even without playing on the 24SS races.