Relive the 1985 Paris-Dakar Rally With René Metge's Porsche 959

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

Relive the 1985 Paris-Dakar Rally With René Metge's Porsche 959

This article was published by Joe Donaldson (@Joey D) on October 17th, 2018 in the Car Culture category.

 

[letsdothis97]

Really is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen on the rally side of racing, just imagining a modern day version of this with a 918 is quite hard to picture.

 

[TheCracker]

Just needs some bright yellow Cromodora Delta HF Turbo wheels to relive those childhood Tamiya RC dreams.

 

[Liquid]

The very notion of the Porsche 959 being Group B is both mesmerising and ridiculous in equal measure; a supercar being made (or remade) to suit rally regulations.

Astonishing.

 

[SPhilli911]

I wonder who owned it after Jacky Ickx, because the 1986 Paris-Dakar winning (#186) was on display at the Porsche Museum a while. And so was the 2nd place car, #185 (the one Ickx raced). I suppose Porsche doesn't necessarily own all the cars at the museum, some must be on loan, but surprised that something this historic may not have been owned by Porsche themselves. But then again, the fact the car is so legendary might be exactly why Porsche doesn't own it.

Anyways, always been a fan of the Paris-Dakar 959, even if I don't much care for the road variant. Impressive car, but at the time, the F40 was my poster car over the 959.

 

[SVX]

I wonder who owned it after Jacky Ickx, because the 1986 Paris-Dakar winning (#186) was on display at the Porsche Museum a while. And so was the 2nd place car, #185 (the one Ickx raced). I suppose Porsche doesn't necessarily own all the cars at the museum, some must be on loan, but surprised that something this historic may not have been owned by Porsche themselves. But then again, the fact the car is so legendary might be exactly why Porsche doesn't own it.

Anyways, always been a fan of the Paris-Dakar 959, even if I don't much care for the road variant. Impressive car, but at the time, the F40 was my poster car over the 959.

Edit: Should the title of the article be 'Relive the 1986 Paris-Dakar Rally With René Metge’s Porsche 959' instead of 1985? Or do we want to remember the failed 1985 attempt over the 1-2 finish of 1986?

#185 was at the Petersen Museum in LA for the Porsche display, and was also at Rennsport. I got to see it myself at the former, complete with the never-cleaned state, which was pretty special.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but #185 was the N/A one of the pair, correct? I know Forza recently got this wrong, with the tell-tale being the covered up rear radiator vents which I'd assume wouldn't remain covered for a turbo car.

 

[SPhilli911]

#185 was at the Petersen Museum in LA for the Porsche display, and was also at Rennsport. I got to see it myself at the former, complete with the never-cleaned state, which was pretty special.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but #185 was the N/A one of the pair, correct? I know Forza recently got this wrong, with the tell-tale being the covered up rear radiator vents which I'd assume wouldn't remain covered for a turbo car.

I'm actually having a hell of a time finding info on the other 4 Dakar 959s (as in not the 185 and 186 cars), but the cars were all fitted with the NA 3.2 motor for 1985 year and it seems the 1986 cars used a twin-turbo 2.8 liter motor.

Something tells me there were multiple cars with the same number, so this #186 that raced in the 1985 rally isn't the same as the 1986 car of the same number? In other words, not the famous 1986 winner?

"Just six Porsche 959 models were ever built for Dakar competition, including three with normally aspirated 3.2-liter engines (including chassis 010015, the car for sale in this article) and three with twin-sequentially turbocharged 2.8-liter engines." Link

Edit: I don't know the year of the Forza car, but they may have gotten it right after all, if 3 of the real cars are NA and 3 are turbo.

 

[SVX]

I was talking to @Heldenzeit about this the other day. This is the one I saw-

Which was a 1985 campaigned car.

 

[SPhilli911]

Which further proves there might be more than one of each number Dakar 959, if (as of 2017 at least) there is a sparkly clean #185 at the Porsche Museum complete with different decals than the one you saw. And has a different number plate and exhaust:

This has to be the 1986 2nd place car with the turbo motor then. See intercooler.

Blows my mind. All these years I assumed the number was associated with the winning cars.

 

[TheCracker]

I think the intercooler sat under the rear wing, and lack of, is a good way to identify which is the '85 N/A and which is the later '86 turbo version.

 

[SVX]

I think the intercooler sat under the rear wing, and lack of, is a good way to identify which is the '95 N/A and which is the later '96 turbo version.

Intercooler and covered/non-covered radiator holes on the bumper.

Which further proves there might be more than one of each number Dakar 959, if (as of 2017 at least) there is a sparkly clean #185 at the Porsche Museum complete with different decals than the one you saw. And has a different number plate and exhaust:

This has to be the 1986 2nd place car with the turbo motor then. See intercooler.

Blows my mind. All these years I assumed the number was associated with the winning cars.

Yeah, me too! Lots of other small details to note as well, with things like the roof-mounted brake lights and mirrors being different. Wonder what caused the change for them, as both times they were non-OEM parts.

 

[SPhilli911]

I think the intercooler sat under the rear wing, and lack of, is a good way to identify which is the '85 N/A and which is the later '86 turbo version.

Now that I am noticing it, for sure. For many years I always assumed the cars were 1985 model year, but the same cars that competed in 1985 were fitted with new engines and used again in the 1986 race. That's not the case, but also leaves me wondering why they chose to use the same racing numbers if the other cars still existed?

Really cool to learn there are in fact more of these cars than I thought! Still am curious about the other 2 cars then, the ones that aren't numbered 185 or 186. One seems to have been lost, but the other is in a private collection. Going to try to find that out.

 

[TheCracker]

Lots of other small details to note as well, with things like the roof-mounted brake lights and mirrors being different. Wonder what caused the change for them, as both times they were non-OEM parts.

I guess like most racing or rally cars, competition wing mirrors can be lighter and perhaps more aerodynamic as they don't need to be (easily) adjustable or cover the same field of view as the road car.

Now that I am noticing it, for sure. For many years I always assumed the cars were 1985 model year, but the same cars that competed in 1985 were fitted with new engines and used again in the 1986 race. That's not the case, but also leaves me wondering why they chose to use the same racing numbers if the other cars still existed?

I always assumed the '86 ones were just the updated '85 chassis too. I guess they learnt from their mistakes that first year and made enough changes under the skin to warrant starting afresh from the ground up for the following year.

 

[SPhilli911]

I think the intercooler sat under the rear wing, and lack of, is a good way to identify which is the '85 N/A and which is the later '86 turbo version.

The plot thickens. If this car for sale is a 1985 car (it for sure is, it's chassis 010015, the only Dakar 959 for sale, currently), why's it got the intercooler? Lacks the radiator holes in the bumper, though. Also, notice the rear window is not covered like any of the other 959s.

Chassis 010015 – the desert-raced Porsche to be offered in Atlanta – is a 959 hybrid. It’s powered by a normally aspirated, 3.2-liter, 230-horsepower flat-six...

The roof mounted lights seem to be the only sure way to tell (other than decal differences) between the 1985 and 1986 cars. Here is the rear of the 1985 car, one light on each side:

The 1986 car has 2 lights in each housing, same as the #185 car of the same year:

 

[TheCracker]

The plot thickens. If this car for sale is a 1985 car (it for sure is, it's chassis 010015, the only Dakar 959 for sale, currently), why's it got the intercooler? Lacks the radiator holes in the bumper, though. Also, notice the rear window is not covered like any of the other 959s.

The roof mounted lights seem to be the only sure way to tell (other than decal differences) between the 1985 and 1986 cars. Here is the rear of the 1985 car, one light on each side:

The 1986 car has 2 lights in each housing, same as the #185 car of the same year:

There were some other bodywork changes too. The non-turbo '85 car doesn't seem to have the intakes in the rear wheel arches or the barely noticable vents just bellow the bonnet and has thicker side window surrounds, aside from the intercooler and front and rear bumper vent differences already noted.

'85 car with no intake in the rear arch.

'86 car with the rear arch intakes.

 

[SPhilli911]

There were some other bodywork changes too. The non-turbo '85 car doesn't seem to have the intakes in the rear wheel arches or the barely noticable vents just bellow the bonnet and has thicker side window surrounds, aside from the intercooler and front and rear bumper vent differences already noted.

Well spotted!

Also, looks like the third entry for each year was a #187 car, driven by Jochen Mass, no less, in 1985. This car didn't finish, like the other two 959s that year. Notice the different placement of the "Shell" logo on the front:

And driven by Roland Kussmaul in 1986, placing 6th overall:

All three cars in 1986:

 

[Heldenzeit]

Keep in mind that the Dakar chassis' actually predate the street cars. Here's some more pics I found from the 03/2017 issue of Automobile Sport.