The TVR Cerbera Speed 12 Is Back From the Dead (and Packing 1,012HP)

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

The TVR Cerbera Speed 12 Is Back From the Dead (and Packing 1,012HP)

This article was published by Kyle Patrick (@SlipZtrEm) on January 12th, 2019 in the Automotive News category.

 

[Just The Stig]

"1,1012HP"

 

[G.T.Ace]

One of my favs reborn, glorious!
Nothing beats the original though:

 

[Tyger]

Still makes me wonder where W112 BHG is though. Is it still roadworthy? Well as much as it ever was?

 

[Dave A]

I posted the below in a GT Sport thread someone mentioned this news in earlier:

Interesting-ish history, the original Speed 12 (or Project 12/7 as it was first called) appeared in GT2 and a few of the earlier Test Drive games was completely different as I'm sure you're aware and purpose biult for FIA GT1 racing which during development was canned, making the project a bit pointless.

TVR stuck with the idea though and soon after along came the Cerbera Speed 12 which appeared in GT3 - 6 and a few of the Forza games amongst others. This was the de-winged version of which only a single car ever made it's way to the public. It was soon bought back by TVR though and then cannibalised for parts for the racing program.

A few years later Peter Wheeler, who owned TVR at the time placed an advert for one TVR Speed 12 road car to be rebuilt and sold. Unfortuantely the original bodywork of the road car had been destroyed so only the racing cars shells were left, but the road car was rebuilt and re-sold, this time with the wing and all the vents the race cars had, as it was literally one of the racing cars shells. This car was sold and then was driven by John Barker in Evo many many moons ago, it's a fantastic read if you ever find a copy of it anywhere.

The above car is the very one re-built and sold in 2003/4 using one of the racing cars shells.

As you can see, the Helical Speed 12 is replicating this look rather than the original style the road car was intended to look like. I do personally agree with you that the smoother more muscular lines don't need the wing and vents and it does look too much like a racing car rather than a road car for good and obvious reasons. I still love it though.

I love the car, it's a bit dated now in terms of technology, and probably performance too. Modern supercars will probably best this on a track, but there can never be too much love for TVR .

Here's a video of the Hilicat one, it's not the same as the video in the article.

 

[Bom15]

2 real Speed 12's live. The red car which has the proper engine and the reg W112 BHG. And a purple one with the reg W312 BFV. Both are real speed 12 chassis and panels, mainly from the racers as the original Cerb speed 12 was butchered to keep the race cars going. These 2 are the sister cars that raced together. But there is only one proper speed 12 engine. The purple car has to make do with an Aston V12. Which was actually dyno tested on the same machinery the original broke. They were both built by the same guy and he has a FB page called 'Speed 12' if you want to keep up to date. It's where these pics came from.

I've seen this helical TR. Helical also have another orange car which the body is much more like the real speed 12 racers. And that's what I don't particularly like about the blue car. It's the worst of the speed 12's imo. I think both Helicals also use Aston V12's.

and my pics from Blenheim Palace of the blue car.

 

[Bom15]

Still makes me wonder where W112 BHG is though. Is it still roadworthy? Well as much as it ever was?

It was in the Lakeland Motor museum in the lake district. I think it does get driven. But not much. The engine is too precious. If it breaks, it's gone. Sure I read somewhere that they can't make another. Maybe tooling or something? The purple car is more likely to be driven about.

 

[kikie]

Noooo, I don't want one.

Ugly car. Bah!

 

[Dave A]

2 real Speed 12's live. The red car which has the proper engine and the reg W112 BHG. And a purple one with the reg W312 BFV. Both are real speed 12 chassis and panels, mainly from the racers as the original Cerb speed 12 was butchered to keep the race cars going. These 2 are the sister cars that raced together. But there is only one proper speed 12 engine. The purple car has to make do with an Aston V12. Which was actually dyno tested on the same machinery the original broke. They were both built by the same guy and he has a FB page called 'Speed 12' if you want to keep up to date. It's where these pics came from.

I've seen this helical TR. Helical also have another orange car which the body is much more like the real speed 12 racers. And that's what I don't particularly like about the blue car. It's the worst of the speed 12's imo. I think both Helicals also use Aston V12's.

and my pics from Blenheim Palace of the blue car.

IIRC the purple one is the old while racing car they stripped and rebuilt. There was a thread on Piston Heads by the guy rebuilding it.

I agree with the purple Helicat one, it's the ugliest of them all because they've flattened the front end and made the back more squat. The orange one looks much better, though I'd have it in a different colour.

 

[G.T.Ace]

To be honest, I don't mind that it looks a tad different and in my opinion more modern and streamlined.
It is pretty much a new car and not just a Speed 12 replica.
As much as I love the original Speed 12 and Cerbera Speed 12, modernizing it is a good step.

EDIT: The two tone colour scheme looks crap though.

 

[Dave A]

To be honest, I don't mind that it looks a tad different and in my opinion more modern and streamlined.
It is pretty much a new car and not just a Speed 12 replica.
As much as I love the original Speed 12 and Cerbera Speed 12, modernizing it is a good step.

EDIT: The two tone colour scheme looks crap though.

Fair points, to clarify my opinion on it's looks, I don't mind some of the changes. The removal of a number of the vents and the new bonnet are both fine to me.

It's the blunt nose and squashed back which mess with what was a pretty well designed shape in the first place that I'm less keen on.

It didn't need to look the same, it's not the same car at the end of the day, more of a homage. It's a very cool car but it's not quite different enough for the changes to the shape to work IMO. To me, the original road car without the wings and all the vents still looks the best.

I agree with the two tone colour scheme, I'm not a fan of that either .

 

[Bom15]

Thanks. I'll have to have a look on pistonheads at somepoint.

I dislike the rear the most. Defo too squished. It's lost some of aggressiveness up front to. Although the road car most people know wasn't that aggressive compared to other versions. Hopefully helical will be able to offer both body styles then at least there's a choice. Not that am I'm in the market anyway lol. Two tone scheme not great either. Another thing that can change though. But it defo needed updating underneath. Especially as it is going to be sold/used. Original was an animal.

I've been lucky enough to see a few iterations of the Speed 12 over the years. Motorshow debut it had twin scoops in the bonnet. Then at Goodwood in 2000 it had the nice smooth bonnet, and then I saw a GT2 spec racer in the Getaway livery. Think that was a motorshow around 2005/6? My favourite has always been the smooth bonnet though. A couple pic's. Not great cos they're scanned. The motorshow debut is way too dark to share unfortunately.


Goodwood FoS 2000.


Think this was the base for the new look W112 BHG?

 

[juanffy18]

One of my favs reborn, glorious!
Nothing beats the original though:

Tuscan Speed Six and Speed 12, remind me Gran Turismo 2 moments

 

[juanffy18]

this is the best Cerbera Speed 12 design for me, i thnk this is the first and the original

 

[petesj26]

Still makes me wonder where W112 BHG is though. Is it still roadworthy? Well as much as it ever was?

Technically no.... Just ran an MOT check. It was registered in 2000. Had an MOT in 2006 and another in 2012. That MOT ran out in August 2013.

The mileage is stated as "unreadable" :-D

 

[G.T.Ace]

Just want to say how wholesome all the love for TVR here is.

 

[MxFiver]

Here are a couple of shots of the one in the Lakeland motor museum.

The owner has loaned it to the museum for the time being...

However...

Note the exit doors behind the car...

This car is out of sequence in the museum, of which the rest in are in order of Year of manufacture, this is where it is for ease of getting it out ‘for a drive’ by the owner if he should want to...

But the museum chap has said the car has been very very rarely driven... if at all



I believe this is the ‘W112 BHG’ that is mentioned above?....

 

[Dave A]

Yes that's W112 BHG, the one driven by Evo magazine and only sold by Peter Wheeler after interviewing all potential buyers interested in the car.

 

[MxFiver]

Thanks Dave... I heard that Peter Wheeler drove it and said it was too powerful to sell to the ‘general public’ as it would be a killer on the road... imagine driving it on a country road in the wet

 

[ScottPuss20]

2 real Speed 12's live. The red car which has the proper engine and the reg W112 BHG. And a purple one with the reg W312 BFV. Both are real speed 12 chassis and panels, mainly from the racers as the original Cerb speed 12 was butchered to keep the race cars going. These 2 are the sister cars that raced together. But there is only one proper speed 12 engine. The purple car has to make do with an Aston V12. Which was actually dyno tested on the same machinery the original broke. They were both built by the same guy and he has a FB page called 'Speed 12' if you want to keep up to date. It's where these pics came from.

I've seen this helical TR. Helical also have another orange car which the body is much more like the real speed 12 racers. And that's what I don't particularly like about the blue car. It's the worst of the speed 12's imo. I think both Helicals also use Aston V12's.

and my pics from Blenheim Palace of the blue car.

This new Speed 12 looks a lot less tacky than the original.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Ahh the Speed 12. My top 2 favourite car in Gran Turismo 2 along with the Ford GT90 purely because of how wild it is to drive. You always get a sense that you're on the verge of a huge accident and banked corners are basically 50:50 whether you make it out alive The original design with the "spider pincer" headlights is best. The multi circular headlights are ugly and too similar to later TVRs. Also, Reflex Purple is the only correct colour for TVRs

Here it is at its natural habitat at Red Rock Valley:


I'd love to see what this engine could do in a proper lightweight modern chassis and adequate downforce.

 

[JKcreativeworks]

@LeGeNd-1

I remember using the Speed 12 on red rock valley speedway, and that last banked corner always gave me anxiety as it would most definitely spin out at the last point lol.

--

As i mentioned before, I absolutely love the idea of bringing this car back. But not with the looks its going to have, the front and rear is way to square, the two-tone look because of the carbon fiber parts make the car look messy. The wing ruins it too.

If they had gone with the original shape and muscular lines, the huge gapped fenders, and giant rearbumper and no aditional stuff I would've been all over it. But it just isn't it right now for me.

I do hope, however, that TVR will do something with the 7/12 Speed 12 ideas again. Such a pitty it never really got from the ground apart from a gt racecar.

 

[trustjab]

I like the new car. It's speed12 but unique and a little bit more modern. The headlights still look stupid imo and so does the big fat and flat rear wing.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I remember when the Speed 12 seemed almost unfathomable. Now, even in this more extreme form, it seems pretty ordinary in the context of all the other 1,000hp production cars out there. Worse still is that by bringing the Speed 12 back it kind of detracts from the original's legacy of basically mythical superiority. It's a Cerbera with a widebody kit and an engine swap....and it kind of always was.....

 

[McLaren]

For those interested in more pics (or for members who may have an opportunity to see it) Mayfair Prestige in London has the 3rd car on availability for the price Slip listed in his article.
https://www.mayfairprestigeuk.co.uk...-12-turbo-city-of-westminster-201901153948126

 

[DJones_HelTec]

I work for Helical and its great to see the comments on this page.

Car1 is the orange Speed 12. This is closely built to the original Cerbera Speed 12, with an AML 6l V12 engine, full fibreglass body.

Car2 is the blue/black carbon fibre car. This is currently in the Mayfair Prestige showroom in London, sporting the same 6L v12 engine, but with the two BWTS turbochargers, getting it to the plus 1,000bhp. Car2 is in London as a 'demo' car - with the idea of a buyer of Car3, Car4 etc, speccing their vehicle to their requirements.

It is a fantastic machine, and something that we are looking to offer potential cutomers in the US via a dealer - so @McLaren et al - if you have any recommendations of prestige exotic hypercar dealerships in the US - let me know.

Also, if anyone on here wants to know more information - give me a shout.

 

[CSLACR]

Am I to understand that these are not Dodge Vipers with body mouldings on them?

 

[Tyger]

Just need to clarify something, I am right that there were two types of Speed 12, even if various ones shared the same underpinnings on and off the track? You can see this in a lot of the pics above. The earlier models which were track-only I always just knew as the "Speed 12" and this was the OP purple monster that was in the early GT games. There is also a photo somewhere of an abandoned body shell in their Blackpool yard. The headlight assembly was quite different, as was the body shape.

Later came what I call the "Cerbera Speed 12" (though I might be wrong in differentiating them like this) which is a more muscular, lower looking car and the one destined for our roads, even if this only really came about with W112 BHG. It's also the car the Helicals are based on, and I have a photo somewhere of its debut at the NEC Motor Show (I think that one was gold).

I know there is a specific lineage and some track cars became road cars became track cars etc. etc. but I don't often see it mentioned that there were two quite different looking bodies.

EDIT: Whups just noticed Dave A alluded to this previously.

 

[Dave A]

I work for Helical and its great to see the comments on this page.

Car1 is the orange Speed 12. This is closely built to the original Cerbera Speed 12, with an AML 6l V12 engine, full fibreglass body.

Car2 is the blue/black carbon fibre car. This is currently in the Mayfair Prestige showroom in London, sporting the same 6L v12 engine, but with the two BWTS turbochargers, getting it to the plus 1,000bhp. Car2 is in London as a 'demo' car - with the idea of a buyer of Car3, Car4 etc, speccing their vehicle to their requirements.

It is a fantastic machine, and something that we are looking to offer potential cutomers in the US via a dealer - so @McLaren et al - if you have any recommendations of prestige exotic hypercar dealerships in the US - let me know.

Also, if anyone on here wants to know more information - give me a shout.

So are you developing slightly different styles based on each customers request or did you move away from car 1 which is very much like the race car bodied Cerbera Speed 12 road car to the more different yet still discerably Cerbera Speed 12 body of car 2 meaning all cars sold will appear like Car 2?

Personally I prefer car 1, but that could be more because I'm used to it and have seen W112 BHG in person and not seen these. Since car 1 closest resembles what I have seen and been fond of for so long my opnion could be skewed. I do still like car 2, I just prefer car 1 as it stands.

 

[DJones_HelTec]

Hi Dave A

We are now staying closer to Car2's styling, but making it more user friendly. At the moment, Car2 is more geared towards being a racer, where as Car3 is intended to be more road car.

Car3 is currently being built, but we will be looking to offer things like customer spec'd interior, colour, etc, depending on when a prospective customer places their order.

Car2 will be at Goodwood this year, and will be taking on the Hillclimb on the 4th July, so if you're about, plenty of opportunity over the FOS to see the car in person.