GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on June 29th, 2020 in the Forza Series category.
Forza Bans Confederate Flags as "Notorious Iconography"
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 131 comments
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- 86,616
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
As a quick note, I'm obviously on the outside of this - both as a non-Forza player and a non-American - but I've done my best to stick to the absolute facts without prejudice of the use and meaning of the flag. If there's an error in there, please let me know politely; I don't really care about the flag, I think racists are ****s, and I think Forza is a private service which can do what it wants (and any 1A arguments are negated by the fact it is indeed a private service), so there's as close to a disinterested viewpoint as you can get here...
... which probably means everyone on all sides will hate the article
... which probably means everyone on all sides will hate the article
- 447
- United Kingdom
Sorry but wiping white history & icon’s off the planet ain’t gonna stop racism.
How one sided is it all as well, talk about hypocrites, are we going to wipe all the non white statues & idols of tribes that kicked our behinds too?
How one sided is it all as well, talk about hypocrites, are we going to wipe all the non white statues & idols of tribes that kicked our behinds too?
- 725
- Southfield, Detroit
- BroncoFLHX
One thing I never understood, even as southern born American, is why not fly the state flag instead of the confederate one. Yes, it was never officially used to represent the confederacy, but you can’t escape the emotion it brings.
Your state flags are cool too, y’all. Fly them instead, they’re just as southern.
Your state flags are cool too, y’all. Fly them instead, they’re just as southern.
- 1,455
- Oak Bay, NB, Canada
- Bic44
I too am on the outside of this. It's actually terrifying just to comment here because I don't want to get into racism talk on a forum, but I think the article was well written.As a quick note, I'm obviously on the outside of this - both as a non-Forza player and a non-American - but I've done my best to stick to the absolute facts without prejudice of the use and meaning of the flag. If there's an error in there, please let me know politely; I don't really care about the flag, I think racists are ****s, and I think Forza is a private service which can do what it wants (and any 1A arguments are negated by the fact it is indeed a private service), so there's as close to a disinterested viewpoint as you can get here...
... which probably means everyone on all sides will hate the article
I'm sad because I love the Dukes of Hazzard, and that's how I see the flag. In fact, growing up, I didn't know the flag from anything else. But, if it genuinely upsets people I understand. The main reason I feel sad is probably just nostalgia for the show. Staying up late and watching it with my father was special as a child.
- 684
- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
I really hate the direction in which the world is going right now... i.e. people seeing problems where there aren't any, and arguing about them, which damages all manner of media, games included.
When Clarkson used to say all kinds of controversial stuff back on the old Top Gear, everybody laughed along. If he said such things now, he'd get lynched by an angry mob. The world is going mad. Suddenly everything offends everyone.
But, it's 2020. I shouldn't be surprised.
When Clarkson used to say all kinds of controversial stuff back on the old Top Gear, everybody laughed along. If he said such things now, he'd get lynched by an angry mob. The world is going mad. Suddenly everything offends everyone.
But, it's 2020. I shouldn't be surprised.
- 55
- Reading, UK
- ajmiles
- ajmiles
Exactly what non-problems are people seeing right now that don't (in your mind) exist?
- 447
- United Kingdom
Yes people might still celebrate them, but imo these things are a part of our human history, you can’t just brush it under a rug & hide it like it never existed, they need to stay in place as a reminder not to be that way, so it’s never repeated, a way to confront it & show it when asked on the subject by future generations.
- 55
- Reading, UK
- ajmiles
- ajmiles
Because Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon have always played an instrumental role in the education of young children and adults on the topic of slavery.
- 36
- United States
Any truth to the rumor that the last lap white flag is being retired?
- 447
- United Kingdom
- 2,363
I think the livery with the flag looks insanely cool, but knowing the story i could absolutely not care less about something i might think looks cool versus what it has been used to represent and still does in some people eyes.
That car will look awesome with the american flag or even with a danish flag.
- 71
- United States
- WiseGuy025
This just feels like an easy attempt to get good press, nobody was asking for this change, but whatever. In most applications the confederate flag is tasteless, but the General Lee essentially getting banned is pretty stupid imo, guess people are gonna have to start going the Burnout Route
- 55
- Reading, UK
- ajmiles
- ajmiles
My point is that people don't go to play Forza to learn about the history of the American Civil War, the Confederacy or slavery. So what possible reason is there to allow iconography that glorifies, elevates and celebrates a group of people who killed 365,000 people for the purpose of being able to continue enslaving Black people?
- 40,729
Good on them. As enjoyably stupid as The Dukes of Hazzard still is, it has a lot to answer for for the shroud of legitimacy and empowerment that it has given to every white trash redneck who paints it on the side of his barn and grips his wallet before crossing the street every time he sees a black person coming.
Doubly good on Microsoft for acknowledging the double standard that Japan enjoys with the IJN flag and recognizing that that probably shouldn't have gotten to a similar level of casual acceptance either.
Doubly good on Microsoft for acknowledging the double standard that Japan enjoys with the IJN flag and recognizing that that probably shouldn't have gotten to a similar level of casual acceptance either.
- 86,616
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Just for reference, while researching the piece I was having a look at opinion polls regarding the flag over the years. The most recent one is Politico, which returned:
44% - Southern Values
36% - Racist
A 2015 poll I found (I think it was for CNN, but I forget) said:
56% - Southern Values
32% - Racist
Interestingly, that one broke down the stats a few ways, with 46% of college-educated or better, 11% of white-identifying responders, and 78% of black-identifying responders, saying it was racist.
John Schneider, who was Bo* Duke in the Dukes of Hazzard, makes replica General Lees. He vehemently rejects the notion that the flag as used on the car in the series, the car, and the series were racist - though accepts the flag may be used by racists - when talking about WB withdrawing Dukes merchandising from sale in 2015:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john-schneider-confederate-flag-dukes-804933
*Which should really be "Beau"; the character was called Beauregard. Really.
**The Charleston church shooting, which prompted the decision.
44% - Southern Values
36% - Racist
A 2015 poll I found (I think it was for CNN, but I forget) said:
56% - Southern Values
32% - Racist
Interestingly, that one broke down the stats a few ways, with 46% of college-educated or better, 11% of white-identifying responders, and 78% of black-identifying responders, saying it was racist.
John Schneider, who was Bo* Duke in the Dukes of Hazzard, makes replica General Lees. He vehemently rejects the notion that the flag as used on the car in the series, the car, and the series were racist - though accepts the flag may be used by racists - when talking about WB withdrawing Dukes merchandising from sale in 2015:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john-schneider-confederate-flag-dukes-804933
*Which should really be "Beau"; the character was called Beauregard. Really.
**The Charleston church shooting, which prompted the decision.
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- 3,802
The Confederate flag has long been used by Italian football fans, and it has nothing to do with race or American politics. It stems from Dukes of Hazzard and being rebels.
Now I hope Turn 10 aren't just woke but have actual values, and as such I expect the rising sun will also be banned. Japan's version of the swastikas, which is offensive to Koreans.
It's funny because this so called fight against racism seems to be not only doing the opposite, but also doing oys best to wipe out black history. Uncle Ben's removing the black character on their logo, the 54th regiment memorial statue being vandalized, a statue of an all black regiment. Gone with the wind being removed which started the first black woman to receive an Oscar. The great Inbetweeners being removed on YouTube by because it stars black actor Doc Brown as a drug dealer for 30 seconds, in a clip that he says is his proudest moment working on that show. Brilliant ey.
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- 40,729
Which it was, so...
- 55
- Reading, UK
- ajmiles
- ajmiles
You'll be glad to hear the Rising Sun is on the banned list as well.
- 21
- South Korea
- VICIOUS13JP
Over PC everywhere.There's even a Blue General Grant Charger 68 with normal USA flag on top to replace Confederation Flag.Virtual world situation/decision cant affect real world.GTA series let player commit illegal crimes in a virtual city,but most player never take it into reality and really go gangsta on every normal guy.Same with General Lee problem,I dont think everyone who loves General Lee and DOH series are ricist or Politically Incorrect.If people cant tell the difference between virtual and real then it's a bigger problem than racist BLM or any other prejudication.
- 17,059
- United Kingdom
Huh, the rising sun flag design seems popular amongst the Japanese car culture here in the UK.
- 447
- United Kingdom
You know when it all ends, it’ll just start up again when we finally get a chance to meet the little green men & women aliens an humanity will of learned nothing.
- 1,446
I don't think any flag or banner, that hasn't been abandoned by it's original wielders/creators (like Germany ditching the swastika), is completely irredeemable. A flag or banner, in the end, is just a design. The Koreans don't dislike the 'Rising Sun' because they don't like red circles, but because of the actions committed by those who flew that design.
However, if allowed by those who suffered the injustices, time will heal the wounds. This together with new generations, flying the old banner in a new, positive way, can gradually change the perception of it.
So, unless the very people who used it reject it completely, that means those who fly it believe the banner can be washed clean, given new meaning and they should be given a second chance. Don't ban them.
I'd rather see people flying banners, with negative perception, acting good, than people flying banners, with positive perception, acting poorly.
However, if allowed by those who suffered the injustices, time will heal the wounds. This together with new generations, flying the old banner in a new, positive way, can gradually change the perception of it.
So, unless the very people who used it reject it completely, that means those who fly it believe the banner can be washed clean, given new meaning and they should be given a second chance. Don't ban them.
I'd rather see people flying banners, with negative perception, acting good, than people flying banners, with positive perception, acting poorly.
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