GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on April 12th, 2021 in the Esports category.
F1 Esports Launches "Women’s Wildcard" Qualifier for Pro Exhibition
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 109 comments
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- 55
- Storm--Trooper-
Am i missing something here? What's stopping anyone from entering the main event? Shouldn't matter what sex you are in any esports event ever.
- 2,214
- Isle of Wight, UK
I'm just gonna rock up by this news and hold me bowl of chips under the thread.
Ran out of salt at home...
(If I must post my real opinion, hope it turns out positive, let's stop kicking up a fuss every time, etc, etc)
OK - cue sim racing blokes who feel hard done by.
Ran out of salt at home...
(If I must post my real opinion, hope it turns out positive, let's stop kicking up a fuss every time, etc, etc)
OK - cue sim racing blokes who feel hard done by.
- 777
- Canada
"Just like the real thing, F1 Esports has something of a gender imbalance. In four seasons to date, no female driver has ever taken part in an official F1 Esports race, and no team has ever selected a female driver."
They're trying to address that part.
- 55
- Storm--Trooper-
No female had ever won the grand national but they didn't have to have a female only event for that to change last weekend.
- 777
- Canada
The Grand National started in 1839 by the looks of it, so it only took 182 years to get a female winner.Maybe F1 eSports is trying to expedite that process?
I honestly don't understand who could be bothered by something like this.
- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 5,637
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
Motorsport (and by extension, sim racing) is a very male-dominated sport in terms of representation, and I'm sure we can all agree that certain pockets of gaming communities are less than welcoming to women.
There are plenty of talented people out there (Emily Jones being one GT fans might be aware of) but the environment can be rather hostile so I imagine a bunch of solid female sim racers don't bother as a result. Hopefully this changes that as racing is for everyone.
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- 55
- Storm--Trooper-
Wouldn't it be better to educate the idiots who bring a hostile environment towards females than to shove them all into a different event and say there you go girlies?
I just don't get it, i thought the world had moved on from segregation. I hope it's successful though and can see the goodwill intended.
- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
Yes, unfortunately you would have an easier time teaching a fish to breathe on land.
Think of it as the targeted marketing that it is. It's really no different than having a competition limited to people from "x" country or region, or players of a certain game. It's not meant to necessarily segregate as much as it is an attempt to draw more people by putting the spotlight on sectors that haven't had as much representation.
- 777
- Canada
The irony here is mind numbing.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Waaaaaaah! Vaginas! Waaaaaaaaah!
This is not the correct way to do it. Giving a group an unfair advantage is immoral. If you don't understand that part of the equation you have been brainwashed.
Other racers have to win their place among all the opponents, but a group has the advantage of having their own restricted and easier (because of less opponents) selection in order to win their place.
They have two opportunities to win the final place,... instead of one opportunity for others.
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- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
No part of that covers either "unfair" or "advantage".
The "final place" is a qualifying spot for a skills-based playoff, not to win a competition. It's an additive opportunity that takes nothing away from any other players who would have otherwise qualified for the skills-based playoff.
No woman is being given an advantage, much less an "unfair" (whatever that means) advantage, over a man. No man is disadvantaged by this event.
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- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The number of opponents doesn't matter - it's a skill-based event. We have no idea of the skill level of the women who might take part in order to declare it "easier", unless you think women are automatically worse at it.
It doesn't take away anything from "the other group", so they are not disadvantaged by this, thus this event is not "an advantage". I don't really know what "unfair" means in this context.
The opportunity is for one woman. More than that, it encourages more female participation, and if more women can see they can compete on a level playing field against men, more might enter the online hotlap competition next year and we might even see some in the Challenger Series.
This kind of response is so weird. It's like somehow allowing one woman an opportunity to appear in the live public event alongside 36 men is a threat to the integrity of esports.
So, if it isn't easier, why they do this system ?
They can achieve the finals for their own skills, they can create teams too, it's not forbidden to create a mostly women team or a 100% women team.
No need for an "additive opportunity" if, as you say :"The number of opponents doesn't matter"
The opportunitty is not for one woman, it is an extra opportunity for every woman... and we don't have that extra opportunity.
Women can see they can compete on a high level every day, no need for an "additive opportunity".
Women are free to participate, create teams and win.
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- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This question doesn't make any sense. The purpose of doing this is to attract more women to F1 Esports.
No part of this makes any sense either. F1 Esports isn't a team event at this stage, and when it becomes a team event it's the actual F1 teams (and their esports branches) that select the drivers. There is no opportunity at all for privateer teams.
It is an extra opportunity for one woman, because only one woman can qualify from the skills-based competition.
Do you believe you would be skilled enough but are disadvantaged because you don't own a vulva?
The actual point of this is that no woman has ever been part of any F1 Esports live event. This will put a woman into that situation for the first time ever.
Only then can women see they can compete on a high level, and perhaps with increased female participation that this wildcard event generates there'll be no need for the wildcard event. Women are grossly underrepresented in esports, and there's no obvious reason for it; although there's a physical demand from high-level esports, it's not sufficient to rule women out completely and it doesn't make any sense that you can literally name every woman who's ever raced in F1 Esports, McLaren Shadow, WFG, FIA GT Sport finals, and so on, because they're so rare (all of those women put together are, for reference, Emily Jones. That's it).
The only reason that makes even partial sense is "women don't race in esports because women don't race in esports". A glaring total absence of women in esports acts as discouragement to women to even try. This event gives women encouragement to try, by putting a woman into the skills-based Pro Exhibition so that other women (and particularly younger girls) can see that women can do it as opposed to not seeing any women doing it ever. Increasing female participation to and exposure of female participants in esports will generate further female participation in esports and decrease the odd gender bias that really shouldn't exist.
Can you really not see that?
And again, it's not an "unfair advantage" because nobody is being disadvantaged (and again "unfair" has no meaning in this context).
"Only then can women see they can compete on a high level" ... This kind of response is so weird... They know they can, as also men know they can... and they can project herself/himself in that competition and try to achieve it. Nobody is blocking them.
Again, it's unfair because one group has an extra opportunitty than other group hasn't (because they "don't own a vulva".)
They need respect, not extra opportunities as they were not capable to achieve the place for themshelves. They are obviously capable.
They can also make open events (by raffle for example or VIP guests like in GTS finals sometimes or normal people guests ) with men and women for increasing women exposure on e-sport. No need to make a competition among one group with one rule and another group with another rules and extra opportunitty.
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Scaff
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Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that the existing competition is effectively 'men only' and that setting up a separate competition to address that doesn't impact on those who already participate in the first one?
Quite literally the only way you could see this as a negative would be to approach it from the utterly incorrect view that all is currently far and equal, when it's demonstrably not, well either that or be a raging misogynist.
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- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Then why do you think we've not seen a single one in four years if it's not a question of capability? Quick hint: I already explained why.
Ah, thanks for letting me know you're not bothering to read my responses. Fortunately they weren't just written for you, so it's still worth my time to write them.
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They are free, if the number of participants is less than men is because they do other things freely.
I used the same formula than you before, thank you too. I'm not writting only for you neither.
Because with this system they are giving the message that women only can achieve the final if they receive the gift of an extra "only women" selection.
- 86,505
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This does not answer what I asked you.
You said that women are capable of qualifying already. I agree, but I asked you why women aren't already competing in F1 Esports (or most other esports series) if they're capable enough to do so.
If it isn't capability, what is it that's stopping women from competing?
Quite, but you're making "points" I already rebutted in the posts you're quoting but clearly not bothering to read.
It's mad that you think it's not a question of capability, but don't question why women aren't already competing if they're capable enough to do so (or seem to want to answer when it is questioned). It's even madder that you think women can see women competing in these events when women don't compete in these events and thus cannot be seen competing.
Given these two truly odd conflicts that you seem to not notice, it's probably no surprise that you don't think a solution is to have women competing in these events for other women to see competing.
As they aren't doing so at the expense of any men who would otherwise have qualified, they're not disadvantaging anyone in the process, so it's not an advantage.
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- 5,637
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
Think of it this way.
It's very hard (for a myriad of reasons, mostly social) for female sim racers to get involved in esports.
This event opens the door and shines a spotlight on what I imagine will be many talented drivers that otherwise wouldn't have gotten attention.
If the series is a success and more female drivers compete in games in the future, then eventually a "Womens' Wildcard" won't be necessary as the mixed category would be a more inclusive place where no matter the gender you would be happy to compete.
It's very hard (for a myriad of reasons, mostly social) for female sim racers to get involved in esports.
This event opens the door and shines a spotlight on what I imagine will be many talented drivers that otherwise wouldn't have gotten attention.
If the series is a success and more female drivers compete in games in the future, then eventually a "Womens' Wildcard" won't be necessary as the mixed category would be a more inclusive place where no matter the gender you would be happy to compete.
tldr: men are jerks 
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What is it that's stopping women from competing? Nothing is stopping them from competing.
It's not a question of capability, the same for real automotive competition, there are less women participants but they win too, as Jutta Kleinschmidt, Michele Mouton and Sabine Schmitz for example
...with no need of extra opportunity...
One solution could be an open event with men and women, all of them chosen by raffle for example and VIP women and men.
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