4WD in Road Racing

[JohnBM01]

As you know, four-wheel drive is a very desirable drivetrain in rally racing and off-road driving. You get so much control off road. Four-wheel drive combines the traction of front-drive with the acceleration and ease of turn-in in rear-wheel drive. Combined, they have only a slight chance of spinning out.

But when I hear of four-wheel drive in road racing, it can be quite tough. I hear of Audi's success especially in SPEED GT with Michael Galati. I can recall the two Audis driven by Michael Galati and the wonderful legend Derek Bell. But then I hear of the Bugatti EB110 that raced Le Mans in 1994, and I don't think it did too well. I think 4WD is good for traction and control, but when you race with it, it can be tough to corner at times. I think with all the extra parts, four-wheel drive has a touch too much weight to corner effectively.

GTPlanet, let's talk 4WD in road racing.

 

[vat_man]

Depends on the formula and execution.

I can remember the Audi Quattro A4's dominating world-wide supertouring, which ended up seeing 4WD banned from most touring car formulas. I can remember the R32 Skyline GT-R dominating Australian touring car racing to the point that Group A was abandoned in favour of the local V8 Supercar formula.

There have been a few failures - Nissan couldn't get their AWD Primera working in 2.0 litre Supertourers, and I think Ford were fooling around with an AWD Mondeo. Various 4WD projects were tried in F1 in the late 60's and early 70's and mostly failed.

 

[zoxxy]

It would be very hard to install a 4WD system in a F1, since the driver is just in front of the engine.

 

[Speed Drifter]

wtf.

 

[DJM PRODUCTIONS]

Kind of off topic, but in 1/10 scale Rc racing, most guys prefer 2wd over 4wd

 

[LoudMusic]

I've always been under the impression that the added weight to add drive to another axel and the division of power over two axels instead of 100% power to one axel would be a greater negative than possitive force when the car already handles and accellerates quite well as a 2WD.

 

[The359]

4WD was tested in Formula 1 way back in the 60s and 70s, and I think may have even raced, but it was found to be useless. The added weight and complexity leading to more likely failure outweighed any grip gains the car had.

As far as I know, most forms of sportscar or GT racing nowadays ban 4WD.

 

[Glut]

During the Group A godzilla days, Gibson motorsport was asked to slow down the GTRs. When Richards (the lead driver) took off AWD, he said he was losing 2 seconds per lap in the dry (let alone the wet).
As for weight, most catagories have weight restrictions. so using the above example, the GTRs were homologated at a certain weight and adding/removing AWD didn't change their minimum weight.
In a road car this might be a consideration but for racing catagories I think it's not an issue.
Complexity is another thing altogether. But given how reliable AWDs are today (look at Subaru, their entire range is AWD) AWD is probably the least of a racing team's worries.
So in summary, I think AWD is a valid way to provide more grip to a car, it works regardless of weather conditions (although slippery tracks do advantage it) and reliability is not a huge issue.

What is at issue is how boring it could make racing. Or maybe not, given that in the production car racing they have down here, I think the AWD drivers are willing to push their cars a lot further, possibly resulting in more offs than 2wd cars.

 

[JohnBM01]

If you can recall Gran Turismo 2, you may remember that the JGTC Skylines were 4WD (by the way, is AWD and 4WD the same thing?). The Pennzoil Skyline from GT2, for example, packed around 700hp and 4WD. But around 1999 or 2000, 4WD was banned, so that you had to race front or rear wheel drive, and as you know from Gran Turismo 3, the Skylines were in their Le Mans drivetrain- rear-wheel drive. I think the Skylines in the JGTC seen some better performance when going to rear-wheel drive. And don't forget the 4WD master Subaru going to rear-wheel drive with their Cusco Subaru. I think someone's avatar had the Cusco Subaru of today, but he's banned last I heard.

Anyhow, I think the Infiniti G35 has what is called "intelligent AWD," it turns to 4WD when it needs to, but is 4WD almost all the time.

 

[The359]

If you use Gran Turismo as your reference, then I don't think you really should be talking...

JGTC has never allowed AWD.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
I've always been under the impression that the added weight to add drive to another axel and the division of power over two axels instead of 100% power to one axel would be a greater negative than possitive force when the car already handles and accellerates quite well as a 2WD.

True - but in the instance of touring cars, particularly the GT-R, at the end of the Group A era the cars were delivering well over 600 hp through pretty skinny tyres. Anyone who saw the RWD Ford Sierras at their peak saw cars that were pretty scary in their power delivery. 4WD would provide an advantage in that instance, as power delivery to the tarmac is improved, providing an advantage in speed out of corners.

It was the same issue in supertouring, but you have to remember in that instance the competition was FWD.

 

[Glut]

Originally posted by JohnBM01
(by the way, is AWD and 4WD the same thing?).

Yes or no, depending on who you talk to :-) In OZ to most people, 4WD is considered a set ratio split system, i.e. always driving in a 40/60 split or 50/50 split. Usually reserved for off road vehicles.
AWD is variable, it has a general split (IIRC in my impreza 100% front...?, but generally some front, some rear)
and it changes depending on which wheels are losing traction. It's also more associated with sports cars - prolly because of Subaru's advertising more than anything else.

I suppose technically it's all the same, as at some stage all the wheels are being driven.

I think the Skylines in the JGTC seen some better performance when going to rear-wheel drive.

I find that hard to believe. Given that the minimum weight is around 1100 kg, unless there was a weight penalty for 4WD, then it should have had a higher limit of grip.

Anyhow, I think the Infiniti G35 has what is called "intelligent AWD," it turns to 4WD when it needs to, but is 4WD almost all the time.

As do most passenger vehicle 4WD systems..