5 reasons not to consider GT5 the best game in the saga.

I recently played gt2 for a week. I had an absolute blast with it. I thought it was far better that gt5, with all the race-mods and very fun races.

Then I popped gt5 back in and my god it is so fantastic! Yes there are a lot of things wrong with it. I really hope these faults are being adressed in gt6. In these forums all the faults have been adressed a hundred times. But the things gt5 does right are absolutely right.

I have gt2 and gt5 on the top of my list of favorite gt-games with gt3 a close second. But the more I think about it, there isn't much between any of them.

Every gt did something great. If they were to put only the right things in gt6, it would be the perfect racing game. But I think that would be nearly impossible.
 
The A-Spec in GT5 is terrible. Almost no thought was put into it as in other GT single player career modes.

One of Kaz's last interviews confirms that for me- they just threw it together and didn't really care about how it turned out.

The physics are fine, the force feedback is fine, the gfx are fine (for a PS3) the sound is just ok, but can be great, and can also be really bad.. but what kills it is the turd that is A-Spec in GT5.. if it is as bad in GT6, I won't be buying it, and that will be the first time I won't be buying a GT game and the system it comes out on.

GT5 A-Spec wasn't just bad, it was a huge slap in the face to every GT fan that valued the single player "game" aspect of the game. Other sims on the PC do multiplayer way better, for me multiplayer in GT5 is a tiny fraction of the overall game experience.
 
I'm still convinced Kaz never played through A-Spec from start to finish without any dev/cheat modes enabled. If he did then he might have seen the general failure but also the specific failings like the Formula GT race unlocking one level before you can actually buy the car for it or the fact that on version 1.0 the progression via XP was completely broken and could only be completed with extreme grinding. Or having a level 40 race giving out utterly useless XP.
 
PletdeKoe
Every gt did something great. If they were to put only the right things in gt6, it would be the perfect racing game. But I think that would be nearly impossible.

It isn't as simple as that. If everything they did was done great, it would still fall short. The problem isn't just not doing this or that well, but that it isn't doing enough. Each new game needs a bunch of new features, and to do all those well, just to keep pace with the competition.

Simply having a bunch of cars, tracks, physics, online races, and an offline career isn't good enough, even if they were to do all if these well. If we were talking about food, nailing these things might equate to a good steak, but it needs a good potato and a few other good sides and a good drink to make it a proper dinner.
 
5. Standard models
Yes, I know standard models are a way to put more cars in the game and we may bless the GT4 models recycling, thanks to which we have 1000+ cars and not 200 as in Gt3, but seriously... it took two years to them to realize how they could put custom wheels on them... and they're supposed to be the best programmers in the world. I mean, in GT2 you could put custom wheels on your car, and those weren't definitively Premium Models!

It took time but now it's there, what's the problem? Besides, who said they are the best programmers in the world?

4. DLC
Yes, that awesome period when we all thought about a simulator which updated once in a while in order to always have new cars and so. We dreamt about 10 minutes to get 5-6 new cars in a months, and not of 30 minutes to update the game when it's evening, you come across the PS3 with no idea about what to do and your only wish is racing for less than 5 minutes on Trial Mountain, that 30 minutes only to discover they've added 3 new cars I can't even buy, because they all require real money.

You start by complaining we don't get enough dlc, and then end by complaining about us getting it. Getting a faster internet connection and/or developing some patience might solve this problem.

3. Special events & License tests
In the previous chapters, acquiring gold licenses was fun. I mean, when you bought the game you got all the bronze licenses, or maybe some silver ones, and then, after playing a while, you got gold ones. In Gt2 it was relatively easy, apart from that Rome-Night-Alfa155 thing, in Gt4 it was human, in GTPSP extremely simple, in GT5 impossible. I mean, how can I get a gold license when even the CPU demo is slower than the required time? At least show me how you can do it! Some of the test require perfect skill and even more perfect luck: today I spent 15 minutes trying to realize where I had to brake with an Audi TT in the A-1 test, and I got something like 20 attempts under 16.350 before finally going under 16.300. Why?!

15 minutes doesn't sound like such a long time to attempt... well pretty much anything. I mean, it would be quite a drab if you could gold of them on the first try.


2. Loading times
There's no game in the GT saga as slow as GT5. Slowest in loading tracks, unbelievably slow in detecting network problems, slow in everything. There are times I think my ps3 has problems reading the disc, when I remember the content should have been installed on the HDD... why? Why has it to be so slow? When you reach the "Seasonal events" after 5 minutes of unnecessary loading time, you happen to choose the wrong one, only to wait another minute just to load 2 images of the tracks and the data concerning your reward. Not to talk about when you actually select the single race into the event: 30 seconds to load the scenery, and you're stuck for 2 minutes looking at an "Eni" advertisement and the blue sky. Even the loading noises from the cd drive of the Ps1 were more interesting!

:lol:

It has become obvious that the game is asking a bit too much from the platform. Jagged shadows, long loading times and all sorts of imperfections are a result of this. There's also a lot of network traffic happening in pretty much all the menus, so again I question the speed of your connection. Have you tried navigating the menus with the PS3 disconnected from the internet and have you noticed any difference in loading times?

1. The PP system
A PP system. What a clever idea! A pity they managed to realize it the worst way they could. My Dodge Viper of the late 90s has got 550pp or little less, while my BMW M3 of year 2004's got 496, and the later is 3 second faster than the former at Tokyo R246. I have a TVR V8s I love to drive: 447PP, enough to be beat by every car in its class. Not to talk about the 430PP of an Alfa Romeo GTA of the 60s... how can I compete Mugen S2000s and similar beasts with 160HP?
There's an unbelievably large amount of this cases, like the 600PP Ferrari F40 or the 516PP Mercedes SL600 (1998), and what's the result? The result is, yesterday evening I joined two different rooms for the 550PP class: saw nearly 15 cars, 11 were BMW M3s, 2 BMW M3 CSL a 350Z maybe and some other non-M3 cars which ended in the last positions. Why is it so stupid? It doesn't care about LSD, suspension tuning and other 1000 things the game includes and PP doesn't.

The PP system has many flaws, but when it was first introduced it really changed the online scene. 500pp sports hard became a sort of a level, and many people were developing tunes and searching for good base cars, it was a jolly time.

You must understand that mathematically factoring in suspension and LSD settings into PP would be impossible. If you try to make a fast suspension setup for any car, you'll soon realise that it's not simple, and figuring out which LSD or suspension settings ultimately end up being faster on a certain track is something that is nigh on impossible to calculate.

I agree PD could've individually downgraded certain cars to a more competitive PP level (Caterham Firebird comes to mind, or in fact most radically light cars), but among friends you can make the regulations right.

And all these things come between an amazing moment and another, when your soul is filled with admiration for the spectacular graphics or for your close win after 5 laps of perfect driving. In such moments you're literally in love with the game and you feel you may keep playing for hours... then you say, "Why don't I try that new Seasonal?" ending up in turning the whole thing off after that long waiting and writing here your disapprovement for PD.

I've had many of these amazing moments, lately it's like that almost every time I play the game, but with such problems I can see how it can be frustrating. Trying a seasonal has never taken any noticable amount of time on my PS3.
 
1. Engine sounds
2. Licenses - Back then to get into events you actually had to do them, now it's pointless.
Yes and YES!!!
Sounds weren't really a big problem in GT series, until GT5 Prologue came out. You realize they're still synthesized and OLD SCHOOL....and other developers are way ahead with realistic intake/exhaust sounds.

Oh boy licenses are really useless in this game. In the past you were FORCED to complete them to participate in a specific competition. You were MOTIVATED
 
I'm still convinced Kaz never played through A-Spec from start to finish without any dev/cheat modes enabled. If he did then he might have seen the general failure but also the specific failings like the Formula GT race unlocking one level before you can actually buy the car for it or the fact that on version 1.0 the progression via XP was completely broken and could only be completed with extreme grinding. Or having a level 40 race giving out utterly useless XP.

It's shocking to think that they spent x-amount of years working on and developing GT5 and it ended up and was released the way that it was.
  • To many side projects?
  • I think majority of us are tired of the same old GT events and series in story mode. Awarding only standard cars as prizes and cars that do not allow you to progress to the next event, epic flaw.
  • Not utilizing tire wear and damage in nearly all events another flaw that limits the game
  • Family cup or whatever that is, who really wants to only race the same exact car models. We need a random single race or even event race generator so can always have decent races to compete in with any car. The online events are nice but would be much better if random races, random A.I. cars, random number of laps within a certain range etc.
  • License test pretty much useless now,have served their purpose and maybe time to ditch them in GT6.
  • Specialty events are okay, but would prefer that they just make a series with go carts etc.
  • New cars to the series except for GT Mobile as standards - really lame and a disappointment for the series, those should of been on the must have for Premo list.
  • A.I. that still drives single file most of time and is to perfect, makes for lousy racing.
  • GT5 is the most hardcore of the series and you would probably have to play countless hours every week (GT is your life) to have every car.
  • With all the cars that GT5 has and the most realistic performance of the cars in the series it should be relative easy to build a story mode that is very structured and awards the players in a progressive way, while maintaining the open structure.
 
Nevertheless, it gets better with each game. It was 14:1 in GT1, 6:1 in GT2, 5.5:1 in GT3, 5.4:1 in GT4 and now 5.1:1 in GT5.

If all trends continue in GT6, you'll be looking at ~55% of cars from Japan, ~30% of cars from Europe and ~12.5% of cars from the USA. Still 4.4:1 but still the best you'll have seen yet - as every GT game so far has been.
Oddly, as of September 2012 sales, it's actually Europe that's the most underrepresented... But it's close. The USA has 0.45 cars per percentage point, Europe has 0.44 cars per percentage point and Japan has... seven :lol:

Gran Turismo 1 - 10.85m
JPN 2.55m (23.5%) - EUR 4.30m (39.6%) - USA 3.99m (36.8%) - RoW 0.01m (0.1%)
Gran Turismo 2 - 9.37m
JPN 1.71m (18.2%) - EUR 3.68m (39.3%) - USA 3.96m (42.3%) - RoW 0.02m (0.2%)
Gran Turismo 3 - 14.89m
JPN 1.89m (12.7%) - EUR 5.85m (39.3%) - USA 7.14m (48.0%) - RoW 0.01m (<0.1%)
Gran Turismo 4 - 11.44m
JPN 1.27m (11.1%) - EUR 6.76m (59.1%) - USA 3.23m (28.2%) - RoW 0.18m (1.6%)
Gran Turismo 5 - 7.43m
JPN 0.64m (8.6%) - EUR 4.59m (61.8%) - USA 1.94m (26.1%) - RoW 0.26m (3.5%)

It seems that the Japanese share is dwindling as the Japanese car list dwindles, while the European share increases as the European car list increases. The USA is its own, strange world that shows no trend I can discern.

Europe is also the biggest market by far in terms of sales, with 46.6% of "canon" GT titles being sold in Europe - though the largest number and largest share of GT titles sold was US GT3 at 7.14m and 48% of GT3 sales. Or, to put it another way, more than 1 in 8 canon GT titles (and more than 1 in 10 of all GT titles) is a US market GT3...


Edit: Yes, I actually have a file with all of this in it, with the percentages already calculated. Came in handy writing GTPEDIA :lol:

Wow you left me speech less. I still think we need more American cars though.

Dang. I bought a Lifetime membership like a day before the sale:ouch: Is it like an encyclopedia or does it have a few tips? Like Track characteristics? The first preview chapter makes it out like a encyclopedia.
 
Every game no matter what game it is be it shooter,action or racing is never going to make everyone happy.I Just injoy GT5 for what it is a great sim. And it can't be that bad of a game as so many people are still playing it.Enough said.Just injoy it for what it is the best sim ps3 has to offer..
 
It's shocking to think that they spent x-amount of years working on and developing GT5 and it ended up and was released the way that it was.
Maybe PD blew most of their budget on hiring car modellers rather than game designers, people to work on physics, etc..

/baseless speculation
 
Because its quite obvious neither area got the full attention it needed in GT5.

I would rather the online component be awesome than have both online and offline be included and mediocre. It would be great if everything was included and everything was great, but when was the last time that happened?

If this happened, then people who couldn't use the Internet wouldn't be able to even play the game, which would eliminate many sales and cause a massive uproar from those who have bad/no Internet.

The new DiRT game has tried this and been greatly criticized for this from what I've heard.
 
Maybe PD blew most of their budget on hiring car modellers rather than game designers, people to work on physics, etc..

/baseless speculation

That might be a baseless speculation but there is a quote from Kaz where he says 60% of the entire dev time went on modelling cars. I still find that staggering.

At one of the desks, there was a guy touching up details on the complex model of a Ferrari. It was a delight to see him work, slightly altering the model in three dimensions using high tech design tools. Yamauchi said that within the total time of game development, modeling cars has consumed 60 percent of available resources. Without doubt, they have wanted to give this issue top priority, and it was revealed in the space occupied by the modeling division, well over half the total team.
 
5 reasons why GT5 is the best game in the saga,

&bull; online gaming ( unlimited replay ability )
&bull; photo realistic graphics
&bull; best physics on a console to date.
&bull; massive car list ( growing with DLC )
&bull; huge amount of events ( increasing fortnightly through seasonal events )

I could go on but those 5 things for me is what make GT5 the greatest console game available. I can't see myself ever playing GT 1,2,3,4 again because of that.
 
5 reasons why GT5 is the best game in the saga,

&bull; online gaming ( unlimited replay ability )
&bull; photo realistic graphics
&bull; best physics on a console to date.
&bull; massive car list ( growing with DLC )
&bull; huge amount of events ( increasing fortnightly through seasonal events )

I could go on but those 5 things for me is what make GT5 the greatest console game available. I can't see myself ever playing GT 1,2,3,4 again because of that.

1. A valid point if that is your thing, what about those that don't and just want another offline GT game like the last four?
2. Except for 80% of the cars that are far from photo realistic and some average looking tracks.
3. If you're talking about just GT games, I agree, but that still doesn't make a game.
4. Large numbers aren't always a good thing, GT5's car selection is pretty poor in variety and as previously mentioned, 80% are PS2 models.
5. Huge amount of events? Where? A-Spec is tiny compared to previous games and seasonal events still don't get them close, even if you ignore the fact they're not conventional races.
 
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