A.I. ... and then there is lotus...

[GT]

Recently I have encountered something that is somewhat odd and certainly does not add to the fun factor.

As we all know, GT5P is getting no updates so we must find ways to keep playing the game. Thankfully there are a lot of ways to play the game. Furthermore, there are also a lot of options for us players to tinker with such as race distance and AI...

However, this is where the problems start. I really like to do a 20 lap race on Suzuka with the AI set to about 70 to 80 and use s2 or s3 tyres. It makes it really challenging but at the same time if you drive consistent and know the track slowly you get closer to your opponents. It feels very realistic and rewarding! Great fun...but wait what's that...is it a rocket?

Nope, it's a lotus...a tuned elise to be correct and it blows the entire opposition away, no way to hold it back. Sure i have held him behind me for a few laps but eventually it just gets away and then it starts to lap everything...why...

This just completely destroys the realism; don't get me wrong, perhaps the car in question would perform like that, could be, yet with s3 tyres there is no way I can keep the lines and speed he has through the cornes on Suzuka. I'm not sure but perhaps when we decide to use s3 the competition still uses R-tyres? could this be or is the tuned elise just a bullet? Oh, and i'm using a F430...

Either way I don't like it's inclusion because it destroys the feeling of getting closer inch by inch trying to overtake someone and than BAM...elise...

Turning donw the AI would solve it i guess, but then the rest would be way too slow and that sense of accomplishment would be gone.

WHat are your thoughts about this? Should we be able to pick out our own competitors just like in PGR3? that would certainly solve this issue and add a lot of longevity because you can put cars YOU want up against each other.

thoughts?

 

[profi]

I already complained about this problem several times.

We actually race against ONE SINGLE CAR in every single-player (arcade) race.

Its always the same: Set the AI strength to a value that matches your own capabilities and there is just ONE car you struggle with. The rest of the field has no chance at all.

Or set the AI strength 1 percent higher: YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY CHANCE against the single car which is (scripted) as the fastest...

Thats boring...

I also suggested already that if PD would put in some kind of mechanical failures to ALL cars the races would become more exciting because you would never know if that car in the lead would fail eventually and you could catch him afterwards.

The AI surely needs big improvement. I hope they get it right for the full version of GT5.

 

[Paulie]

A tuned Lotus really will destroy your F430 like that, but tuned cars shouldn't race against normal cars (Except perhaps the Tuned 350Z and Clio, but only in the hands of AI).

 

[Boffin]

I think you should up the AI and forget about the Lotus. If you're nearing the front of the pack, maybe the AI is set too low - or maybe you like it that way as it's an actual race.

I don't know about anybody else but I set the laps to infinate and am much happier having a 4 way battle in the middle rather than a one on one at the front of the pack. If you are worried about the lotus, up the AI and you'll get rid of it quicker, that way leaves you open to more quality time with something more suited to your car.
If you are in a race, the aim is consistency and if there is a challange, one should be more content with keeping up rather than beating the pack.

just my 2 cents though

 

[Paulie]

I think you should up the AI and forget about the Lotus. If you're nearing the front of the pack, maybe the AI is set too low - or maybe you like it that way as it's an actual race.

I don't know about anybody else but I set the laps to infinate and am much happier having a 4 way battle in the middle rather than a one on one at the front of the pack. If you are worried about the lotus, up the AI and you'll get rid of it quicker, that way leaves you open to more quality time with something more suited to your car.
If you are in a race, the aim is consistency and if there is a challange, one should be more content with keeping up rather than beating the pack.

just my 2 cents though

Alternatively, use my Brera or Mustang, AI on around 50-53 (depending on track, sometimes less), 5 laps or so (Again depending on track) and have a chance at victory but battle every step of the way. Don't go to HSR though, there's nearly always an RX-7 out front that manages to smash everyone including cars with much more POWAA!! But you still get a battle with the non-cheater cars at HSR.

 

[GT]

If you are in a race, the aim is consistency and if there is a challange, one should be more content with keeping up rather than beating the pack.

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe that's missing the point slightly. Some of us are very competitive and if a car is able to beat me, than so be it, that is no problem at all. Maybe I made a mistake or maybe that car was slightly faster, better set up. But with the lotus I feel as if I am being cheated out of a fair race...and that's the problem, it feels unfair and losing because you are too slow on the track is very different than losing knowing that there is no way in hell that you'll be able to beat that car with s2...kinda complicated but that's the way I feel about it.

And truly, the competition is great and a real fight...so sad to see the lotus destroy that sense of immersion and accomplishment...

Perhaps I should set the laps to 50 or so...that lotus can't navigate around traffic all that fast

 

[Paulie]

......maybe that car was slightly faster, better set up...... it feels unfair and losing because you are too slow on the track is very different than losing knowing that there is no way in hell that you'll be able to beat that car with s2...kinda complicated but that's the way I feel about it.

Now I don't get your problem. The Lotus Elise/Tuned would undoubtedly be faster than your F430, it's not a case of the Elise going unnaturally fast or being given an unfair advantage, the computer simply doesn't match cars very well and so you get the odd car here and there in every race that is way faster than all around. Sorta like the race I had in a bog standard Z06 on S3 tyres, against AI on 79 at Fuji. I was able to beat all others, except the computer was domb enough to put an Amuse in against all these road cars, so the Amuse won by an irresponsible margin.

 

[ASH32]

Now I don't get your problem. The Lotus Elise/Tuned would undoubtedly be faster than your F430, it's not a case of the Elise going unnaturally fast or being given an unfair advantage, the computer simply doesn't match cars very well and so you get the odd car here and there in every race that is way faster than all around. Sorta like the race I had in a bog standard Z06 on S3 tyres, against AI on 79 at Fuji. I was able to beat all others, except the computer was domb enough to put an Amuse in against all these road cars, so the Amuse won by an irresponsible margin.

I think that is his problem Paulie, lets hope this is a lot better in GT5.

 

[GT]

exactly that IS my problem. Point it that those unbalanced cars should not be there because they ruin the experience somewhat. Just like your amuse, another great example.

Again, some people don't find this annoying at all, but I do, very much so in fact. As i stated before, if there is a car present with a slight edge...alright, but something like the elise or amuse which are basically a whole different class of race cars, than that's just unfair. You're racing a already lost race to begin with. Again, I love a challenge but this has nothing to do with that, it's NOT possible to win the race, and because the possibility does not even exist is basically what bothers me because there is no way i'm going to win, even if I race perfect laps each and every time.

So i really hope they solve this issue in the final product as I don't see PD patching this...

I don't think I'm the only one bother by this. The AI is lacking in that department...

 

[ASH32]

Like I said in another thread it's just lazy programming. I think most people like their games to offer a challenge, but not when a lot of game makers seem to think, hard = AI can cheat. Using a car in a class that it doesn't belong is not fair. It's not a challenge, it's just annoying. It's not the Elise that's the problem as such, it's the fact that in this case, it's in a race when it shouldn't be.

 

[speedthrill]

exactly that IS my problem. Point it that those unbalanced cars should not be there because they ruin the experience somewhat. Just like your amuse, another great example.

Again, some people don't find this annoying at all, but I do, very much so in fact. As i stated before, if there is a car present with a slight edge...alright, but something like the elise or amuse which are basically a whole different class of race cars, than that's just unfair. You're racing a already lost race to begin with. Again, I love a challenge but this has nothing to do with that, it's NOT possible to win the race, and because the possibility does not even exist is basically what bothers me because there is no way i'm going to win, even if I race perfect laps each and every time.

So i really hope they solve this issue in the final product as I don't see PD patching this...

I don't think I'm the only one bother by this. The AI is lacking in that department...

You're not the only one my friend, not at all...

If i remember well you can find lots of threads about it already way back in the GT4 section. We were annoyed about it back then and i think we still are now at this time... It hasn't changed one bit... That's wy i only race online and in the WRS.
I think PD likes Lord of the Rings. " One to beat them all! "

 

[Ardius]

Like I said in another thread it's just lazy programming. I think most people like their games to offer a challenge, but not when a lot of game makers seem to think, hard = AI can cheat. Using a car in a class that it doesn't belong is not fair. It's not a challenge, it's just annoying. It's not the Elise that's the problem as such, it's the fact that in this case, it's in a race when it shouldn't be.

I think its more of a case that they didn't (or couldn't) alter the rules inside the game everytime they updated the tyre performance, PP value, etc.
The same goes for the races in the events mode, they altered PP values but not the cars that compete.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

On Supercars Exposed on speed they tested F430 vs. 911 tubo vs Lotus(some new model, alot cooler than elise) and the lotus did anything but blow F430 away. The AWD 911 was clear winner.

 

[Exorcet]

WHat are your thoughts about this? Should we be able to pick out our own competitors just like in PGR3? that would certainly solve this issue and add a lot of longevity because you can put cars YOU want up against each other.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what is needed. GT5P single player is very limited because there is essentially no race option. It's a one on one with 14 other cars acting as scenery. If it wasn't for online I wouldn't play nearly as much.

 

[Ardius]

On Supercars Exposed on speed they tested F430 vs. 911 tubo vs Lotus(some new model, alot cooler than elise) and the lotus did anything but blow F430 away. The AWD 911 was clear winner.

Tested how? And how is "some cool new Lotus model" an accurate representation of a modified Elise made up by PD (probably the Exige or Motorsport Elise is the closest real life counterpart)?

Its like saying "oh, my Viper beats an F430, so clearly it should be able beat the F2007 in GT5P".

 

[LOonIE]

I guess, the AI still acts in normal mode if you use the professional mode. I didn't compare the AI's lap times in both modes, but that's what I feel about it.

I think about the player chosen opponents since GT2.
I don't want to race with my Dodge Charger against Skylines and Supras.
I want to race against other muscle cars or Europeans / Asians from the same era....even in arcade mode.

This option would be great....especially for the photo mode!

 

[Peter]

was it the 111r tuned? if so, then its definately a suzuka champion. i've driven this and it is just great on a high level. the regular, i dont know about that one, but the elise has less weight and good power to weight ratio and good handling and balance. it's realism definately, cause its up against a hatchback and some big sports cars, and you're in an f430, so you will get passed in the corners(not that you suck or anything)

 

[niky]

The tuned 111R is so quick, it's not funny... if not for the fact that it's ultra-light and easy to punt off if you're driving, say, a GT-R, it would clean up online.

The big problem is the way the computer calculates PP, as Paulie says. It's a problem we've had with A-Spec points and the Lotus in GT4. Accept it... the car is just that good.

I don't pay attention to the guy in front, anyway.

Since I'm artificially forced to start mid-pack, without any chance of qualifying for the race to improve my start position, and because if you have the difficulty set so that the AI cars are as fast as yours or slightly faster (the way I like it), by the time you get to 2nd or 3rd, the front-runners have built up a half-lap cushion, I just focus on running with the battles and improving my overtaking and defending.

 

[Paulie]

I guess, the AI still acts in normal mode if you use the professional mode. I didn't compare the AI's lap times in both modes, but that's what I feel about it.
!

I agree completely, the computer definitely uses standard physics still.

 

[BaldurKn]

I have the same problem with GT5rologue I would love to be able to select my opposition on my own that would make everything perfect

 

[Nomino]

I noticed something similar the other night. I was racing around Suzuka and I was in the tuned Ford GT I think. I held off another Ford GT for a few laps, but suddenly, it decided it had found another few hundred horse power, shot off into the distance, and then proceeded to lap everyone.

 

[JDigital]

VTEC kicked in yo...

 

[Ardius]

I noticed something similar the other night. I was racing around Suzuka and I was in the tuned Ford GT I think. I held off another Ford GT for a few laps, but suddenly, it decided it had found another few hundred horse power, shot off into the distance, and then proceeded to lap everyone.

Sounded like he was constantly being blocked by you and he eventually found a gap he could squeeze through rather than he suddenly had a boost in performance, as I've never seen that in GT5P.

 

[JDigital]

Sounded like he was constantly being blocked by you and he eventually found a gap he could squeeze through rather than he suddenly had a boost in performance, as I've never seen that in GT5P.

Naa, I still say it was VTAAK!!

 

[Peter]

I noticed something similar the other night. I was racing around Suzuka and I was in the tuned Ford GT I think. I held off another Ford GT for a few laps, but suddenly, it decided it had found another few hundred horse power, shot off into the distance, and then proceeded to lap everyone.

It's probably Rubber Band Effect. It's an unrealistic feature in GT5 that slows you down or speed you up (also with the AI) depending on how far you are from the race leader. It's there to make racing more exciting. I'm not so sure about how he suddenly sped off and started lapping though.

 

[GT]

well, at least it is clear that many of us here at GTplanet are having trouble with these design choices of PD; let's just hope that they either rectify it with un update, which is very unlikely, or at least fix this issue for the final build of GT5.

I think GT gets its unique flavor from these sort of things, little things. They should give us the option to create our own races in arcade mode at least which would give the game some great replay value to boot!

Again, I think I speak for most of us by saying that GT5p is a great title; and yes, i understand its just prologue, and no i'm not just complaining for the sake of it. I really feel that were this issue to be resolved it would add a lot to the franchise and it would take them a whole lot of effort i think...

Let's see what happens...

 

[EERS4YEARS]

It was the Exige. The Exige has 250 hp i think, more than the tuned elise. They tested up ,and down, a mile stretch through the hills of Hollywood California, super twisty, no straights, Porche is a superior design over both... tuned or not. My point is this- its a fricking game, the computer lets cars go as fast as the computer wants them to. It has nothing to do with it being a tuned elise.