a little trouble with my zonda

[chili_fenster]

hi all i like using my zonda online i race at 550pp trouble is i have the zonda cornering ok
but im having trouble with straight line speed at tracks like monza Tokyo.
when i change top speed for different tracks i only adjust the final speed is the correct method ?
or any other tuning tips for getting better top speed

thx in advance

 

[killerjimbag]

Check out Praiano's tunes I think he has something in there.

 

[chili_fenster]

im using zonda 125s road car could only find setup for zonda r

thx

anyone

 

[praiano63]

im using zonda 125s road car could only find setup for zonda r

thx

anyone

Hi, did you check here?

https://sites.google.com/site/gt5tune/home

Pagani Zonda C12 ‘00
JG's Tuning Shop
madmyk
Sideways Tuning
Sideways Tuning(2)
Clueless Tunes


Pagani Zonda C12S ‘00
Sideways Tuning
Darknes Garage


Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3 ‘02
Lion's Den Performance
strutr74
Grease Monkey Engineering(Drag)(SS7)
Top Performance Tuning
Sideways Tuning
Mad FinnTuners Co.

 

[Master_gamer438]

I run the 7.3 at 550PP. Awesome car, puts most cars to shame. Can keep up with my CSL. For 1300kg its very quick cornering. Never ran any other Zondas. But the 7.3 can corner faster then my CSL, buy only gets 191mph top speed where my CSL gets 196mph.

 

[chili_fenster]

thanks for the reply's the trouble is on tokyo/grandvally/monza i always seem to be slower than most cars i race on the straight
cornering is fine just need to try and find another 10 mph or so towards the end of the straight
i have tried adjusting ride height/camber /stiffness with no joy

anyone have any tips for transmission as i said i just move the top speed slider

thx in advance from a novice tuner

edit; or as stated above does it just not have the top end speed ?

 

[Master_gamer438]

What is your top speed that you reach. This may be complicated but i'll try to explain. For most of my cars, I usually run nurburg though. I'll go backwards to reach the long stretch. Once I get adjustable top speed about where I want it, usually just at the redline. This will give you your top speed. I then move the last gear individualy to the left for 2 reasons. 1 is your gonna want some kind of gearing for drafting, reason 2 is the closer your gears set to max torque RPM your car will accelerate quicker and will result in having room for drafting while still being just as fast if you were redlining. For example my CSL hits 196mph redlining at 9000RPMS on nurburg. I can still hit 196mph but at 8100rpms or so now. But now if drafting I have 900RPMS before I top out, doesnt sound liie much. 900RPMS that is but thats the difference between hitting 196 while drafting or 215 with a slightly stretched gear while drafting. I run 550PP so 215mph oh nurburg is plenty of speed. Hope this helps you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If it's anything like the Zonda C12, the HP/Torque curve drops off dramatically at the high RPM's. At 550PP the C12 is a beast, but I had to tune the tranmission with a top speed of 350-360 km/h to get the motor to operate in it's best rev range and that tuning alone was good for better top end and a second a lap on many tracks. With the C12 at least, you don't want to be at the redline for top speed as the HP drops off as much as 50% at the redline.

Make sure the transmission is tuned so that you are at or just over the peak HP as you near the end of the longest straight. Forget about the torque curve and concentrate on the HP curve.

One other possibility, and I haven't looked at the car so this could be wrong, is that the car is not a natural 550PP car. If you have to use a lot of engine detuning, say more than 5%, it really begins to rob the HP. A car that you tune up to 550PP with parts/engine tuning will always have a higher HP than the same car you tune up to 600 PP with parts/engine tuning and then detune to 550PP. And the difference can be dramatic, on the order of 50hp or more depending on how much detuning you do, and this can really rob top end speed. So you might want to remove as many parts as you can before you use the power limiter.

 

[chili_fenster]

thanks again for the reply's

"With the C12 at least, you don't want to be at the redline for top speed as the HP drops off as much as 50% at the redline."

so if i try as mastergamer says will get same result as above and yes the power is taken down by a lot will remove some mods see if this helps

cannot try at the moment as the boy is using ps3 lol and thanks again will post results as i just love driving this car

 

[Johnnypenso]

thanks again for the reply's

"With the C12 at least, you don't want to be at the redline for top speed as the HP drops off as much as 50% at the redline."

so if i try as mastergamer says will get same result as above and yes the power is taken down by a lot will remove some mods see if this helps

cannot try at the moment as the boy is using ps3 lol and thanks again will post results as i just love driving this car

I can only speak for the C12, but bringing that car up to the redline is not the ideal transmission set up. Most cars in the game have peak power up close to the redline and a fairly reasonable drop off but the C12 in particular drops like stone well before the redline. So if it's peaking at 500 hp at the redline it might only be 300 hp. Better off making sure you are running in top gear at the end of the straight at or very near the 500hp peak and that means much taller gear ratios.

 

[Master_gamer438]

I checked, I said it wasant wise to be redling, and after peak power doesnt mean anything, if I hit 191mph at 9000rpm and can back the gear to hit 191mph at 7900 rpms. that is saying at a lower rpm near peak torque your going just as fast without being near peak power.

 

[chili_fenster]

thank again

gonna try this today so how do i get full speed at less rpm as not to lose power at the limit ?

stretch the final gear ?

thanks

 

[Johnnypenso]

Stretch all the gears not just the final gear, as you want the same RPM shift point in all gears. Set the top speed so that the car is in it's ideal rev range at the end of the longest straight and the rest of the gears will follow.

 

[Master_gamer438]

Dont really need to stretch all the gears. Too much and you'll be a little slower. I have a few 5 speeds which hit the same speeds as a 6 speed of the same car. but some corners will be slower. I usually adjust final till I redline to keep gears close, then adjust my 6th gear and maybe 5th gear if it feels sluggish or if it feels too quick through RPMs.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The Zonda C12 and other cars are different. You never want to be near the redline as the car develops only 50-60% of it's peak HP near the redline. Staying 1000-2000 revs below the redline keeps the car operating at peak HP throughout every gear. If you take the C12 in particular to the redline in any gear, it is definitely slower. Closeness of the gears is not relevant in this case.

 

[chili_fenster]

thank for all the reply's

could some one explain to a simple old man (lol) how to do this in simple terms how to get the car to change gear just before the redline
and would i need to change all the gears for diffrent tracks or just the final gear once i have set this up
i think i will have to but just want to check

thanks again

edit; its the c12s. i've been looking for ages for the 7 litre but with no luck

 

[Onboy123]

thank for all the reply's

could some one explain to a simple old man (lol) how to do this in simple terms how to get the car to change gear just before the redline
and would i need to change all the gears for diffrent tracks or just the final gear
once i have set this up
i think i will have to but just want to check

thanks again

If you drive using automatic, the computer shifts at the redline for you, but as others have say, it isn't the optimum area for shifting up in the Zonda. What you want to do is move the final gear to the left until you can achieve the same top speed while shifting up at 1000rpm lower than the redline in every gear.

 

[Johnnypenso]

See below...double post...sorry

 

[Johnnypenso]

The simple way is this:

Look at the torque/hp curve graph in the tuning area for the particular car and see what RPM you want to shift at. I usually just eyeball it but you can use a ruler or do some calcuations or maybe there is some more scientific way. Every car is different but you generally want to be operating a little before and a little after the HP peak. So let's say the redline is 8000 rpm but the curve shows the power really begins to drop at 7000 rpm. Take your top speed number at the bottom and adjust it to TOP SPEED x 8000/7000.

Example. If you want the top speed of the car to be 320 km/h (including the draft) you'd set the top speed at the bottom to:

320x8/7=365 km/h

Take the car out to the track to test on the longest straight, and adjust final gear ratio as necessary.

Once this is done, go back and set first gear for launch, as tall as possible for the tires you are using, without bogging down the engine. Some wheelspin without the tires going red is usually ideal. Then you can space the individual gears relatively evenly by eye. There are calculations you can do to really fine tune the individual gears but they usually aren't necessary in all but the most serious of racing or time attack's.

Sounds complicated but it's usually just a few minutes and pays huge dividends in lap times. fast launches and race wins. I usually make these adjustments as I'm tuning a car, so I'll leave the pits, check the launch, run a lap to test the tune adjustments, then bring it back in and adjust suspension/LSD etc. and the gears at the same time.

As I said before, many, many cars in the game are fine running up to the redline, or have gentle enough power curves that even if power is dropping at the redline it's just a few hp and fairly insignificant. With cars like the C12 the drop off is huge so transmission tuning is very helpful.

You can adjust the gears to each track by using the Final Gear Ratio but then you lose your perfect first gear. I prefer to set most cars up to run on the longer tracks like Road Course Indy or Fuji or even the Nurb and just leave them there, to retain my perfect first gear ratio. You can use the settings sheets for different transmission set ups but I usually use them for different tire set ups. Failing that, I'll usually leave everything the same and just lengthen out the top gear alone, and go reset it once I'm done at that track. Remember also, that once you have the gears set up so each one is operating in it's ideal power range, there are very little if any gains to be had by shortening the gears for a track like Tsukuba unless the power curve is incredibly peaky and even then it's only a couple of tenths at best.

Keep some notes and you'll find yourself setting tops speeds relative to PP levels for street cars so once you get a few cars done, the rest of them will fall into the same range. Like 450 PP at 260 km/h or 500 PP at 290 km/h etc.

Hope that helps...

 

[Master_gamer438]

You could either shift early, or stretch gears so when you shift your right at peak HP or torque. I usually opt for torque preferrably. I've done the shift early and for my 16 or so cars I run at 550PP my ghost was slower during early shifting. Compared to stretched gears and 5 speeds/6 speeds if the car has 7 gears.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I ignore the torque curve completely when setting up the transmission as it calls for shifting that is really early and I believe the torque programming in the game is poor at best. The HP peak is usually much higher and in real life it's HP that provides top end speed not torque, and it seems to be the same in the game. For me anyway...

 

[Master_gamer438]

I ignore the torque curve completely when setting up the transmission as it calls for shifting that is really early and I believe the torque programming in the game is poor at best. The HP peak is usually much higher and in real life it's HP that provides top end speed not torque, and it seems to be the same in the game. For me anyway...

If thats the case, wouldn't I be slower when I lengthen gear. For example top solo speed 196mph at 9,000RPMs, If i stretch the last gear to still hit 196mph but at 8,200RPMs which increases my draft speed. The gear is moving closer to torque RPM at beginning of gear, so it'll accelerate quicker. So I havent seen HP be the best option for top speed. BTW 9,000RPMs I'm redling, and cant go any faster, stretched gear, same top speed but a draft up to 215mph at 550PP.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If thats the case, wouldn't I be slower when I lengthen gear. For example top solo speed 196mph at 9,000RPMs, If i stretch the last gear to still hit 196mph but at 8,200RPMs which increases my draft speed. The gear is moving closer to torque RPM at beginning of gear, so it'll accelerate quicker. So I havent seen HP be the best option for top speed. BTW 9,000RPMs I'm redling, and cant go any faster, stretched gear, same top speed but a draft up to 215mph at 550PP.

Whether you lengthen gears or not and whether it slows you or not, depends on where the peak of the HP curve is. Your example is meaningless without the power graph of the individual car. If I understand your example (hard to get through the poor grammar and spelling sorry) you were bumping off the rev limiter (redling?) at 9000 rpm and 196 mph so you lengthened the top gear and went faster? And you think that's because you're moving closer to the torque peak and not because you just allowed the car to hit it's top speed at a lower rpm and then used the draft to increase your top speed? Isn't that a gearing issue not an HP/Torque issue?

 

[Master_gamer438]

It's solo speed, not drafting. If the car doesnt have power top speed wont be high. But lowering a gear near peak torque pushes you. At high speed HP will only get you so far. In this case 196mph. by lengthening gear you can hit the same speed, because torque is more effective mid range RPMs. It's not just lengthening gear because a too long of a gear the HP will at some point top out and with plenty of RPMs to redline. The HP of a car can only move a car so fast.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I still don't get it and you didn't address the stuff in my last post directly. If you are bouncing off the rev limiter and lengthen the top gear of course you go faster providing there's enough HP in the tank to make it go faster. And in every car I know, backing off from the rev limiter takes you closer to peak HP because unless you are using severe engine limiting, I can't think of a single car in the game that peaks in HP at the redline. So there's nothing you said that contradicts anything I said...lol.

Maybe you should provide a specific example and it might be more clear.

 

[Master_gamer438]

some cars do, they peak at say 8000 RPMs and say redline 9000 RPMs. I've seen where power is flat after peak, it doesnt drop to redline. I've seen quite a few