A story about the swear filter.

[TeamCZRRacing]

Before I get into this, I want to say that I don't mean offense to anyone in this post, and I hope what I say isn't taken as such. However, I do feel that there are serious issues with the site's administration and the way mods behave, and I feel the need to point them out in the hopes that someone takes a look at the issue of how moderators deal with users.

Also, let me be clear in stating that the point of this "tale" is not to defame or slander anyone. For the most part, I still consider Jordan and company to be friends despite this. What follows is simply me expressing how I felt about the situation. Incidents like these are rare, so don't let this affect your view on GTP moderators.

This happened a few months ago, but I'm bringing it up now because this is quite honestly the first time I've felt calm enough about the issue to discuss it openly. It concerns an incident in which the swear filter decided to screw me over and not censor two words, which I then had to censor myself, and how I got warning points for something which wasn't even my fault.

By the way, yes, I am going to be mentioning the mods involved by name, but I'm not going to tag them as they've all heard this story before and I don't want to waste their time with an issue they thought closed long ago.

Now, here are the events surrounding the incident as clearly and impartially as I can tell them. One day in April, I happened across the thread "Pics of yourself" and decided to post my own, and under the picture I made a reference to a hilarious line in GTAV. Unfortunately, the line included two words which the swear filter didn't catch. Unsure what to do, I immediately edited the post, partially censoring the words before saving the edit. However a split second after saving the edit, I decided that only partially censroing the words wouldn't be good enough, so I went back to censor them fully. Unfortunately daan had already chanced upon the post, deleted it, and slapped me with warning points for bypassing the swear filter. Now, had I been actually bypassing the filter, I would have manned up, taken it on the chin, and moved on; Famine can attest to that. However, in case you haven't picked up on it yet, there are two special circumstances that I felt were completely ignored by daan in his eagerness to do his duties:

1) The swear filter didn't work, so strictly speaking I wasn't "bypassing" anything
2) It's unclear what users are to do in this situation, so I was confused.

So I opened a conversation with daan, seeking clarification as to how exactly I broke the rules. (The conversation's name is "RE: Bypassing swear filter," in case you're a moderator and you're curious to see what transpired between daan and I.) We "discussed" the matter at some length, and I tried my best to remain calm and civil towards daan, as that's what I would want someone talking to me to do. However (and it gets very subjective from here), daan apparently did not feel the need to treat me the same way, and treated me no better than filth. It was clear to me that he was not willing to even consider looking at it from my point of view, and he made it a point to assume that I intended to break the rules despite the fact that a) he had no evidence of my intentions and b) I'd made it clear to him multiple times that my goal when I censored the words was to uphold the rules, and I was simply caught off guard and confused, hence why I only partially censored the words at first. On June 19th, I raised the issue with Famine and Jordan, both of whom passed the issue off once again without even pretending to consider my side of the equation.

Now I find it even harder to use the site because I get the feeling that the moderators are out to get me, and on top of that I'm angry and feel incredibly hopeless because no-one who I've spoken to so far wants to even think about my side of the incident. Who knows? Maybe someone will, but I doubt it.

 

[Dan]

To be fair, you probably shouldn't have written a message with swears on a family-friendly forum, but it does seem strange the filter didn't censor the words.

EDIT: I would be angry too if I were in your situation.

 

[daan]

(The conversation's name is "RE: Bypassing swear filter," in case you're a moderator and you're curious to see what transpired between daan and I.) We "discussed" the matter at some length, and I tried my best to remain calm and civil towards daan, as that's what I would want someone talking to me to do. However (and it gets very subjective from here), daan apparently did not feel the need to treat me the same way, and treated me no better than filth.

Moderators can't see private messages that they're not invited to, however both Jordan and Famine can see it as they were invited.

We've been over this.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

(and it gets very subjective from here)

daan apparently did not feel the need to treat me the same way, and treated me no better than filth.

Well, I guess you gave warning...

It was clear to me that he was not willing to even consider looking at it from my point of view

That's an assumption.

and he made it a point to assume that I intended to break the rules despite the fact that a) he had no evidence of my intentions

You posted a sweary joke-insult with more than a few questionable words in two sentences. I'd say your intentions were clear.

Certain words aren't covered by the swear filter because their context is important. One thing GTPlanet does follow consistently though is not allowing users to self-censor only part of the word: it ruins the point of censoring in the first place.

b) I'd made it clear to him multiple times that my goal when I censored the words was to uphold the rules, and I was simply caught off guard and confused, hence why I only partially censored the words at first.

See above.

About a week(?) ago, I raised the issue with Famine and Jordan, both of whom passed the issue off once again without even pretending to consider my side of the equation.

That's an assumption.

Now I find it even harder to use the site because I get the feeling that the moderators are out to get me

That's an assumption. Nobody on staff ever likes handing out infractions, or banning. We'd prefer if we never had to.

and on top of that I'm angry and feel incredibly hopeless because no-one who I've spoken to so far wants to even think about my side of the incident. Who knows? Maybe someone will, but I doubt it.

With this thread, people have now thought about it. Is that all, or is there more that you would like?

Like I said, we don't like handing out infractions. Most people don't like receiving them, either. In the grand scheme of things, it means very little for you or your account here, unless you plan on receiving more infractions.

Don't sweat it.

 

[daan]

But seeing as you brought this up, again, this is me treating him like filth.

daan,

I didn't actually bypass the swear filter this time. The B and D words for some reason weren't filtered when I previewed the post, so I censored them myself. Maybe I should have replaced the entire words with asterisks though, just to be safe.

Fair enough. I could take it back and give you 10 points for inappropriate behaviour if you'd like. The end result is the same.

I don't know why I'm being given a waring for doing the exact opposite of bypassing the swear filter by censoring words it failed to detect.

Because bitches and dick can be used normally, but you used them inappropriately.

Well, you don't need to give me a warning for anything because I know not to bypass the swear filter and to not behave inappropriately, so I thought that by censoring myself, I'd be OK. Seems not.

Yes, it would seem not. People who know how to behave appropriately don't post things like "bitches on your dick". And no, you didn't censor it as you left it blatantly obvious what it was you were saying.

When profanities get filtered, they get completely filtered. It doesn't leave the first and last letters in place.

That was at the end of May.

The following is from 19th June. (So, about a "week ago"...)

OK, it's almost a month on, and I'm still a little ****ed off by this. I feel it was completely out of left field because I genuinely did not know that I was to censor the whole word in that scenario. I know not to bypass the swear filter because a) I've read the AUP (I've kind of had to, since it's the same AUP that we use on GT Wikia) and b) I've received two yellow cards for it before. It feels like I've been slapped on the wrist for doing my part to be an upstanding user of this forum.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I just had to edit this comment to remove another word that should have been censored in the first place, so I suppose you're gonna slap me on the wrist for that as well.

Alright, so here's my take on the issue.

I think you fail to see my side of the equation, so let me explain it a bit better. I think the 10 warning points on my account are wrong because strictly speaking I wasn't breaking any rules, and quite frankly this is something that's never happened before, so I had no idea how to behave. In this case, as an administrator for one of the Gran Turismo community's most popular sites over the past 7 years, I feel like, from an administrative standpoint vastly similar to yours, the 10 warning points are entirely too harsh. In this scenario I think a polite message saying something along the lines of "in the future, this is what you should do" would have been better. That way, I would know not to do it in the future, but I would also not feel like the administration was out to get me. Of course, repeat offenses would yield stronger warnings and eventually lead to a ban should they continue, but I just think that for an offense that has no precedent, this was a little harsh.

Now that you've heard my side more clearly, I hope you at least seriously consider it and maybe add an expiration date to the warning on my account. Trust me, I know what to do in situations like this now (and in fact, I've had to employ my knowledge a couple of times since this offense), so I believe the warning is now redundant.

That was the 3rd time you've been warned about your behaviour here. Therefore, there was precedent.

But not in that specific scenario. What was I supposed to do? Censor the whole word? Or would censoring part of it be OK, since the swear filter didn't catch it? Stupid as it may sound, I genuinely didn't know, and on top of that there were no other similar incidents involving other users that I could refer to for guidance. Do you understand why I feel this is too harsh now?

Hows about not saying it?

As I said in my first reply, bypassing the swear filter is not the main reason you got the infraction. I hold my hand up to giving you the wrong 10 point infraction, but what you said ("bitches on your dick" is a completely inappropriate thing to say here) was worth a 10 point infraction anyway so I didn't see the point in taking it back, only to give you the correct 10 point infraction.

So I can take back this 10 point infraction for bypassing the swear filter, and give you a 10 point infraction for inappropriate behaviour, if it would make you feel any better,

If you think that would be the correct administrative action, then I don't suppose I could stop you.

But no matter how you look at it, this is a result of me not knowing what to do because the rules don't cover it. If anything, that's the fault of GTPlanet, not me. I know this sort of incident has probably happened before, so it's quite frankly baffling why you don't have a rule in place to prevent people from accidentally falling into this same trap.* So I ask again: do you understand why I feel this way?

Oh, and when you change the infraction, could you please add an expiration date? I don't care if it's two months - one for each instance of "inappropriate behavior" in the comment - just so I don't have this same incident haunting me every time I go on GTP from now on.

* = And by this I mean you don't have any rules in place that say "in the event that the swear filter does not catch the swear word(s), you must censor the entire word yourself." Instead, you're supposed to infer that from the "inappropriate behavior" rule, which some may not understand. I know I didn't.

I'm sorry for taking up so much of your time, but I'll address that with this: it wasn't clear to me that I wasn't supposed to do that. I've stated that same point about 4 times in this same convo, so I don't know how you haven't picked up on it.

But I shall obey point 9 now and cease participating in this conversation. Perhaps I'll go raise it with Famine.

 

[Jordan]

Yes, we have indeed been over this many, many times now, @TeamCZRRacing.

As I have already told you, I reviewed the situation and found @daan's actions and comments to be appropriate. What I found to be not so appropriate is your insistence on special treatment, and the fact that you have continued appealing me to reverse your infraction after I have clearly and plainly told you that's not going to happen.

Just because I did not comply with your demands does not mean that the moderators are "out to get you", or that you have somehow become hated or vilified. However, your attempt to publicize and dramatize your infraction with the use of wildly exaggerated, slanderous, and false statements about myself and our staff members has certainly damaged my previously high opinion of you.

To address your points:

1) The swear filter didn't work, so strictly speaking I wasn't "bypassing" anything

The swear filter worked fine. Neither "bitches" nor "dick" are censored, but if you use them in inappropriate ways, you should expect to hear from a moderator.

2) It's unclear what users are to do in this situation, so I was confused.

If you think something might be inappropriate on the site, don't post it. If you are unsure, simply ask a moderator in a private message about the content in question.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

The following is from 19th June. (So, about a "week ago"...)

Time flies slowly for me for some reason. My mistake; I'll go fix that now.

Also now that I'm a bit calmer and perhaps am not reading your posts quite as angrily, you do seem a bit more courteous, so now I wouldn't say you "treated me like filth." However I still feel you utterly failed to think about it from my perspective, which I believe is critical in situations like this, having been an administrator for another popular GT site for the better part of a decade now.http://gran-turismo.wikia.com/wiki/User:Gp75motorsports

 

[GTPorsche]

There's a really simple way to avoid dealing with the filter "not working". Either don't use the words, or use 🤬.

Honestly, I didn't even know there was a filter.

 

[ImaRobot]

Time flies slowly for me for some reason. My mistake; I'll go fix that now.

Also now that I'm a bit calmer and perhaps am not reading your posts quite as angrily, you do seem a bit more courteous, so now I wouldn't say you "treated me like filth." However I still feel you utterly failed to think about it from my perspective, which I believe is critical in situations like this, having been an administrator for another popular GT site for the better part of a decade now.

I think it's you who are not thinking of it from another perspective.

You will not use profanity in the forums

Quoted straight from the AUP, yet you are on him acting as if there is no rule against what you've done. This is exactly why the filter is there, just incase someone decides to use the word anyways, it'll get blocked. If you happened to use a profanity that isn't blocked, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get in trouble, as you shouldn't even have used it in the first place.

I would say just stop while you are ahead of yourself, as you seem to just be blowing this out or proportion.

 

[AOS-]

There's a really simple way to avoid dealing with the filter "not working". Don't use the words.

Yep! That's about as simple as this solution gets. OP, all you need to do is just use a cleaner palette of vocabulary more regularly from now on.

OP, I don't think it's the mods that aren't seeing it from your perspective. I think even if they see it from your point of view, you still broke a rule in the end, hence the infraction given. If you can understand this from both parties' perspective, then you'd probably understand why they aren't lifting anything.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Yes, we have indeed been over this many, many times now, @TeamCZRRacing.

As I have already told you, I reviewed the situation and found @daan's actions and comments to be appropriate. What I found to be not so appropriate is your insistence on special treatment, and the fact that you have continued appealing me to reverse your infraction after I have clearly and plainly told you that's not going to happen.

I never asked for special treatment. Heck, I hate it when I'm treated specially. I'm just an average Joe like anyone else here.

Also, there's a reason I avoided tagging you in the post: because I didn't want you to become involved in this again. The fact that you are is your choice. You have more important things to do than spend time going over an issue you've been through before.

Just because I did not comply with your demands does not mean that the moderators are "out to get you", or that you have somehow become hated or vilified. However, your attempt to publicize and dramatize your infraction with the use of wildly exaggerated, slanderous, and false statements about myself and our staff members has certainly damaged my previously high opinion of you.

The point of this was never to slander or defame anyone. It was simply something I had to do to get it off my chest. For the most part, I still regard you and your staff as friends and people I can come to with issues. I hope you can still bring yourself to regard me as the same.

To address your points:
The swear filter worked fine. Neither "bitches" nor "dick" are censored, but if you use them in inappropriate ways, you should expect to hear from a moderator.
If you think something might be inappropriate on the site, don't post it. If you are unsure, simply ask a moderator in a private message about the content in question.

I was 100% sure that the words would be caught, which is why I didn't approach a moderator first. I was caught off guard, that's all.

I think it's you who are not thinking of it from another perspective.


Quoted straight from the AUP, yet you are on him acting as if there is no rule against what you've done. This is exactly why the filter is there, just incase someone decides to use the word anyways, it'll get blocked. If you happened to use a profanity that isn't blocked, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get in trouble, as you shouldn't even have used it in the first place.

I would say just stop while you are ahead of yourself, as you seem to just be blowing this out or proportion.

See my post and responses above.

 

[ImaRobot]

It always baffles me when someone uses the whole "free speech" argument. What people don't seem to realize is that it doesn't mean freedom of consequences that follow.

See my post and responses above.

The reply is no different then what was already said. See my reply again.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

It always baffles me when someone uses the whole "free speech" argument. What people don't seem to realize is that it doesn't mean freedom of consequences that follow.

That's true. Edited.

 

[ImaRobot]

That's true. Edited.

I would say to just hyper link the censor smiley to your keyboard, so that way its easily accessible when ever you're confused about it.

As for this, it just really seems like you're dragging it out to be able to say you're right. I'm sure you've learned your lesson, so just be careful in the future. No use trying to prolong this, really.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I would say to just hyper link the censor smiley to your keyboard, so that way its easily accessible when ever you're confused about it.

As for this, it just really seems like you're dragging it out to be able to say you're right. I'm sure you've learned your lesson, so just be careful in the future. No use trying to prolong this, really.

I've dragged things out with moderators before. It never ends well.

@Jordan @daan @Famine @SlipZtrEm I apologize for any hurt feelings. That was not the point of this whole thread, and I'm sorry it devolved into that. Can we still consider each other pals?