about turbo kits..,

Skygrasper550

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skygrasper_550--
i always have been bugged by the phrase "turbo lag".., what exactly is a turbo lag?? how does it happen?? what happens when a turbo "lags"??

everytime i think of the word "turbo", lag always pops up next.., what exactly is it??

thakns to the gent who answers my question.., :)
 
turbo's have no "direct" connection to the motor as a supercharger does, it's their main strength and weakness. turbo lag is the time from when you push the throttle, to the time when that power is transmitted t oyour backside, an example:

i'm in my Trans am, it's naturaly aspirated so when i push the go pedal, it goes right now, no waiting.

Im in a Talon TSi, it's turbo charged, when i press the go pedal, the motor winds up, produces exhaust,spins the turbo(spools it), then i get boost then i get forward motion, there's a "lag" in response time, but the end result is still speed.

typically, unless you're talking an evo or other awd car, you'll see FR naturally aspirated cars destroy turbo cars off the line, but then get "freight trained" at the end of the 1/4 mile as the boost kicks in and the turbo's take off. now evo' are just beasts, i regularly see them wind it up to redline, drop the clutch, barely squeek their street tires and just decimate whatevers in the other lane.
 
Some newer cars (Audis come to mind) often have 2 turbos. One is smaller than the other, and kicks in earlier; hence, many Audis like the TT & S4 have good useful torque (and a lack of turbo-lag) off the line. As they rev up, the larger turbo starts spooling and keeps the car rolling faster and faster.

Some cars in gT4 have a "stage 5" turbo kit that you can typically buy from the Tuning Shop. This is supposed to represent a turbo system that provides boost across the entire RPM range (rather than just concentrating boost to a narrow band of revs as a Stage 4 does).
 
Some newer cars (Audis come to mind) often have 2 turbos. One is smaller than the other, and kicks in earlier; hence, many Audis like the TT & S4 have good useful torque (and a lack of turbo-lag) off the line. As they rev up, the larger turbo starts spooling and keeps the car rolling faster and faster.

As my Audi-knowledge is mostly limited to older models and inline5's, can you please tell me more? Like which Audis have two different-sized turbos? And is there a TT-model with two turbos?:dunce:
 
As my Audi-knowledge is mostly limited to older models and inline5's, can you please tell me more? Like which Audis have two different-sized turbos? And is there a TT-model with two turbos?:dunce:

Yes, some newer TT's have twin turbos. Same goes with the S4. What's with the dunce symbol, you saying i don't know what i'm talking about? Let's do some online research. Most people confuse TT with Twin-Turbo when actually it means Tourist Trophy, but here's a link for you from edmunds....a reputable internet auto source, from when the TT was "rumored" to be released with a twin.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109024


Under the skin, Autocar reports, the TT may have a twin-turbo variant as well as a diesel model for the first time. The coupe version seen here is expected to go on sale this year, with the convertible following in 2007. It will be unveiled at Frankfurt in September.

Wikipedia didn't have any info that i could find but here's another link, after the twin was released, complete with specs...

http://www.internetautoguide.com/reviews/45-int/sports-cars/audi/tt/2005/index.html

The twin-turbo 1.8 T delivers 225 horsepower and 207 pound-feet of torque, allowing the TT to accelerate from 0 to 60 in 6.7 seconds. Even with that torque, it doesn't feel like there's much under your foot below 3000 rpm. The engine redlines at 6500 and likes to hang out at 5000. The six-speed manual transmission is the right match for this engine; the automatic doesn't work as well with the 1.8 T.




Now on to the S4. I had trouble finding info on 2 different sized turbos, so i may have goofed here. I swear i remember reading this info somewhere, just can't find it. But still...this comes from www.newcartestdrive.com

http://www.nctd.com/review-drive.cfm?Vehicle=2001_Audi_S4&ReviewID=751

Like all Audi engines sold in the U.S., the S4's cylinder heads have five-valve-per-cylinder architecture for superior breathing. But the S4 adds two small turbos, which can deliver the same boost as one big turbocharger because, with less mass, they spool up faster. The smaller twin turbos virtually eliminate the turbo lag (delay in throttle response) that's associated with big turbos.

Anyways, i kinda want that dunce cap anyways. It fits my head nice. :D You cant have it back.
 
Twinturbo TT? I'd like to see production car that has 1.8l four cylinder with twin turbo from factory.. 20 valve head is already a nice accomplishment, but Audi TT, that uses same 1.8 T engine as Golf IV, has no more than one turbo. Not two. Now go get your facts right before you let out more gibberish like that. Just Google Volkswagen 1.8T/Audi 1.8T and put here a link that provides pictures and more specs and facts about the imaginary twin turbo setup.. since I have just a feeling that that 225 bhp 1.8T is just the same engine with ECU remap and different turbo from factory. And FYI, the newest TT doesn't even have 1.8T in it's lineup anymore, since it was replaced by 2.0 FSI Turbo, that's from ( drumroll ) Golf V GTi.

edit: Audi TT 1.8T 225bhp version has twin intercoolers, not twin turbos. Don't believe me? Go HERE and check out the spec sheet for 2005 model.
 
Yes, some newer TT's have twin turbos... ...you saying i don't know what i'm talking about?

Well, you shouldn't believe in everything you see/read in internet. I won't start arguing about this, but in short and sweet; compared to 180hp version the 225hp version doesn't have two turbos. Instead it has bigger turbo and an extra intercooler.

And the 2nd gen TT so far doesn't come with a twin-turbo.



EDIT: Leonidae was quicker... :)
 
Of course. We have fastest tuning settings, so why wouldn't we be the fastest when it comes to educating/owning others as well..? ;) :lol:
 
I know of one TT with twin turbo's (or sorts)...

1_1_b.jpg


http://www.mtm-online.de/en/index.php?nav=5&id=1

...but that is because MTM put two engines in it.

:)

Joking aside the following from Wiki helps clear this up a bit

Wiki
Parallel Twin-Turbo

Parallel Twin-Turbo refers to a turbocharger configuration in which two identical turbochargers equally split the turbocharging duties. Each turbocharger is driven by one half of the engine's spent exhaust energy. In most applications, the compressed air from both turbos is combined in a common intake manifold, and sent to the individual cylinders. Both turbos function simultaneously, unlike sequential twin-turbos. Commonly each turbocharger is mounted to its own individual exhaust/turbo manifold, however on inline-type engines both turbochargers could be mounted to a single turbo manifold. Parallel twin turbos are usually applied to V-shaped engines where one turbo is assigned to each cylinder bank, providing packaging symmetry, and simplifying plumbing; however, it is not uncommon for a parallel set-up to be used on an inline engine. Nissan's RB26DETT is an inline-6 that uses a twin-turbo set-up, the twin-turbo inline-6 in the BMW 335i (E90) coupe also utilizes a parallel twin-turbo set-up. Toyota's 1992 Supra with the 1JZ-GTE (Japan only) 6 cylinder inline engine also used this same configuration, as does Volvo's 1998-01 2.8L B6284T and 2002-06 2.9L B6294T straight-six engines in the 1998-2006 S80 T6 and 2003-05 XC90 T6, Nissan's 1990-1996 Z32 300ZX in its V6 VG30DETT, and Audi's 1997-2002 S4 (B5), 1997-2004 A6, and 2003-2004 RS6.


While a parallel twin-turbo set-up theoretically has less turbo lag than a single turbocharger set up, because of marginally-reduced combined inertial resistance, and often simplified exhaust plumbing, the fact that both turbos spool at more or less the same time means that there is still a noticeable bit of lag, especially in high-flow turbo/high boost applications. One way to counter this is to use a light pressure set up where the turbos are designed to output less boost but spool earlier, however, this set up sacrifices top end power. Another system would be the use of variable geometry turbochargers, this system changes the angle of the guide vanes depending on the exhaust pressure giving the system excellent power throughout the rev range. Once used mainly in turbocharged diesel engines, Porsche was the first to use it in a mass-production gasoline-powered vehicle in 2006 with the 911 Turbo (997).

Parallel operation of the turbochargers can still be used to great effect as demonstrated by the Bugatti Veyron; which runs four relatively small turbochargers in parallel.


Sequential Twin-Turbo

Sequential Twin-Turbo refers to a set up in which the motor can utilize only one turbocharger for lower engine speeds, and both turbochargers at higher engine speeds. During low to mid engine speeds, when available spent exhaust energy is minimal, only one turbocharger (the primary turbocharger) is active. During this period, all of the engine's exhaust energy is directed to the primary turbocharger only, lowering the boost threshold, and increasing power output at low engine speeds. Towards the end of this cycle, the secondary turbocharger is partially activated (both compressor and turbine flow) in order to pre-spool the secondary turbocharger prior to its full utilization. Once a preset engine speed or boost pressure is attained, valves controlling compressor and turbine flow through the secondary turbocharger are opened completely. At this point the engine is functioning in a full twin-turbocharger form, providing maximum power output. Sequential twin-turbocharger systems provide a way to decrease turbo lag without compromising ultimate boost output and engine power. Examples of cars with a sequential twin-turbo setup include the 1993-2002 Toyota Supra Turbo (JZA8x), the 1992-2002 Mazda RX-7 Turbo (FD3S), and the 1986-1988 Porsche 959. With recent advancements in turbocharger design, sequential twin turbo systems have fallen out of favor because they are seen as unnecessarily costly and complex.


Staged turbocharging

Staged turbocharging is a technique used to achieve extremely high pressure ratios by having one turbocharger pressurize the air coming into the inlet of another. It is common in racing with diesel engines (For example tractor pulling) due to their combustion properties that take well to high boost pressures and are not limited by fuel stability like spark ignition engines. Boost pressures of around seven bar gauge pressure (101 psi) are common and as high as 10 bar (145psi) in some cases. A normal turbocharger has a maximum pressure ratio of around three but there are turbochargers in existence specially designed for high boost which have maximum pressure ratios of typically 4-5. In this configuration one turbocharger is used to pressurize the air coming into the inlet of the other, resulting in a multiplication of the pressure ratios. Same goes for exhaust plumbing. For example if both turbochargers are running at pressure ratios of 3.0 and the atmospheric pressure is one bar the resulting pressures will be three bar absolute pressure at the inlet of the second turbocharger and nine bar absolute pressure (eight bar gauge) at the inlet manifold of the engine. The pressure ratio in this example becomes nine.

An example of an engine utilising this configuration is at Cummins Racing
Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-turbo




Scaff
 
Staged superchargers were a common fit in World War II aircraft engines, for example the Rolls Royce Merlin 60 series (found in the Spitfire and later in the Mustang) had two speed, two stage superchargers.
 
Well, you shouldn't believe in everything you see/read in internet. I won't start arguing about this, but in short and sweet; compared to 180hp version the 225hp version doesn't have two turbos. Instead it has bigger turbo and an extra intercooler.

And the 2nd gen TT so far doesn't come with a twin-turbo.



EDIT: Leonidae was quicker... :)

Whatever bro. It says it loud and clear on that page...and i've read it before. So if there is no twin-turbo version of the TT (and from my research it seems they're a rarity) the websites i visited are wrong. I'm just going by what i read.
 
grey cap, assuming a common intake manifold what do you think would happen? i don't think it would work. Decreased VE on the "first to fire" side would cause an oscillation of cylinder pressures between the banks making engine management difficult. now if it did have seperate intakes, what would happen? intriguing concept,,
 
???

Staged turbos would HAVE TO HAVE a single intake unless you split it off somewhere.

One turbo into another. One outlet, but lots of boost.
 
grey cap, assuming a common intake manifold what do you think would happen? i don't think it would work. Decreased VE on the "first to fire" side would cause an oscillation of cylinder pressures between the banks making engine management difficult. now if it did have seperate intakes, what would happen? intriguing concept,,

Keep in mind that the primary reason for supercharging aircraft engines is for high altitude performance. The air is thinner up there, so forced induction is a necessity.
 
what about the Audi R8 (road car). I wanted to learn a bit more about it, becasue it's one of audi's only road car MR's that still holds its trademark AWD "quattro" feature. I know its powered off turbo but is it twin turbo like the TT and S2?
 
what about the Audi R8 (road car). I wanted to learn a bit more about it, becasue it's one of audi's only road car MR's that still holds its trademark AWD "quattro" feature. I know its powered off turbo but is it twin turbo like the TT and S2?

R8 is NA. TT and S2 are NOT twin-turbos. TT was/is available in NA or turbo charged. S2 had only ONE turbo.

Actually, it's NA.

4.2 V8 straight from the S4, IIRC.

RS4 is closer.
 
Some newer cars (Audis come to mind) often have 2 turbos. One is smaller than the other, and kicks in earlier; hence, many Audis like the TT & S4 have good useful torque (and a lack of turbo-lag) off the line. As they rev up, the larger turbo starts spooling and keeps the car rolling faster and faster.

Some cars in gT4 have a "stage 5" turbo kit that you can typically buy from the Tuning Shop. This is supposed to represent a turbo system that provides boost across the entire RPM range (rather than just concentrating boost to a narrow band of revs as a Stage 4 does).

yeah, i have tried a Stage 5 turbo in my Evo VIII once.., it provides lesser power than the Stage 3, but when i tested my Evo, boy did it rocket away form the starting line.., it was much, much, much better than the Stage 3 or 4..,

Of course. We have fastest tuning settings, so why wouldn't we be the fastest when it comes to educating/owning others as well..? ;) :lol:

hail the two Finns.., :):lol:

turbo's have no "direct" connection to the motor as a supercharger does, it's their main strength and weakness. turbo lag is the time from when you push the throttle, to the time when that power is transmitted t oyour backside, an example:

i'm in my Trans am, it's naturaly aspirated so when i push the go pedal, it goes right now, no waiting.

Im in a Talon TSi, it's turbo charged, when i press the go pedal, the motor winds up, produces exhaust,spins the turbo(spools it), then i get boost then i get forward motion, there's a "lag" in response time, but the end result is still speed.

typically, unless you're talking an evo or other awd car, you'll see FR naturally aspirated cars destroy turbo cars off the line, but then get "freight trained" at the end of the 1/4 mile as the boost kicks in and the turbo's take off. now evo' are just beasts, i regularly see them wind it up to redline, drop the clutch, barely squeek their street tires and just decimate whatevers in the other lane.

in short, turbo lag is when there is a delay in the engine response when you step on the gas??? is that it???
 
@ =drifting24/7=

I've merged your your last three posts together, in future can you not use three post when one will do the job.

Thanks

Scaff
 
yeah, i have tried a Stage 5 turbo in my Evo VIII once.., it provides lesser power than the Stage 3, but when i tested my Evo, boy did it rocket away form the starting line.., it was much, much, much better than the Stage 3 or 4..,

Interesting...



hail the two Finns.., :):lol:



in short, turbo lag is when there is a delay in the engine response when you step on the gas??? is that it???

Pretty much. You step on the accelerator, and exhaust pressure is used to spin a turbine. This turbine has 2 ends to it, and on the other end there is a second set of turbine blades--sort of like a propeller, and this side of the turbo forces air into the engine at an accelerated pressure.

At first, the turbine doesn't spin very fast and since turbo engines frequently don't have much natural compression, they can't build speed right from the beginning (hence "lag" is felt), but as the engine builds speed, more exhaust pressure is created. This in turn spins the turbo faster, forcing more pressurized air into the intake side.

Now, you're finally getting the fuller effect of the turbo. You'll notice turbo engines in passenger cars frequently have somewhere between a 8.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression ratio, and naturally aspirated engines tend to have a higher compression: more like 10.0:1 to 12.0:1 or more.
 
@ =drifting24/7=

I've merged your your last three posts together, in future can you not use three post when one will do the job.

Thanks

Scaff

sorry for the multiple posts..,

how do you make posts like that??? when you are reffering to two or more people when making a single post???
 
sorry for the multiple posts..,
Seriously, use the Edit button. Found in the lower right corner of a post, just to the left of the Quote button...

sorry for the multiple posts..,

how do you make posts like that??? when you are reffering to two or more people when making a single post???
...and just to the right of the Quote button is the green "plus" mark. Click that plus mark on every post you want to quote and see them turning into "check" marks. When you're done, hit the Quote button on the last post and you'll get a post with all those quotes. 👍
 
At first, the turbine doesn't spin very fast and since turbo engines frequently don't have much natural compression, they can't build speed right from the beginning (hence "lag" is felt), but as the engine builds speed, more exhaust pressure is created. This in turn spins the turbo faster, forcing more pressurized air into the intake side.

Now, you're finally getting the fuller effect of the turbo. You'll notice turbo engines in passenger cars frequently have somewhere between a 8.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression ratio, and naturally aspirated engines tend to have a higher compression: more like 10.0:1 to 12.0:1 or more.

11.5:1 compression Turbo V6 FTW! No, seriously!

Burnout.jpg


That has one! At lower boost (15psi or less) it would be happy on 93 octane. Keep it at 10psi max and you can have it on 87 octane ish gas.

Barely runs 20psi, they're STILL trying to get the turbos ramped in a way that DOESN'T do that. And it WILL take 25-30psi, just that the poor Syclone chassis can't handle it.

Hmm... And it has twin 66mm turbos. Shouldn't spool very quick should it? But it does.

Yes, they got beat to the 8s. Some guy in Sweden, I think it was, beat them. With spray, slicks on the rear, and no 'Cage. Someone else did it too.

But those trucks are running as fast as they can. This thing has the power capability to do 8.70s or better. Too bad that it just WON'T hook.

So much for AWD meaning better traction.
 
11.5:1 compression Turbo V6 FTW! No, seriously!

That has one! At lower boost (15psi or less) it would be happy on 93 octane. Keep it at 10psi max and you can have it on 87 octane ish gas.

Barely runs 20psi, they're STILL trying to get the turbos ramped in a way that DOESN'T do that. And it WILL take 25-30psi, just that the poor Syclone chassis can't handle it.

Hmm... And it has twin 66mm turbos. Shouldn't spool very quick should it? But it does.

Yes, they got beat to the 8s. Some guy in Sweden, I think it was, beat them. With spray, slicks on the rear, and no 'Cage. Someone else did it too.

But those trucks are running as fast as they can. This thing has the power capability to do 8.70s or better. Too bad that it just WON'T hook.

So much for AWD meaning better traction.

wish i could relate to whatyou are saying.., those compression and psi terms..,
 
wish i could relate to what you are saying.., those compression ratio and psi terms..,

Seriously, use the Edit button. Found in the lower right corner of a post, just to the left of the Quote button...


...and just to the right of the Quote button is the green "plus" mark. Click that plus mark on every post you want to quote and see them turning into "check" marks. When you're done, hit the Quote button on the last post and you'll get a post with all those quotes. 👍

hey, i finally got it!! but, don't you mean, "when you're done, hit the Post Reply button", not the Quote button??
 
does anyone know what cars beside the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII use a Stage 5 Turbo?? my possible guesses are:

-Nissan Skyline
-Toyota Supra
-Subaru Impreza
 
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