AH5017 Air Algeria (Swift Air) MD83 Crashed

[TenEightyOne]

Latest: The wreckage of the crashed flight has been found in Mali.



Links:

#AH5017
MD-83 Details (Wiki)
About SwiftAir (not to be confused with the US Swift Air)
SwiftAir's Air Incident Information (in Spanish)
AH5017 at FlightRadar (shows the MD-83 was on second flight on route)


The aircraft is now confirmed as a SwiftAir MD-83 that's been on lease to Air Algiers for a short time. There was some confusion about this; it seems the route was recently operated by 737s and A320s, some flight-tracker sites still have information for those planes.

SwiftAir confirm it's their MD83 on lease to Air Algeria, 110pax and 6 crew. Weather map shows large thunderstorms in the area. EDIT: Large sandstorms, potentially very significant!

SwiftAir Statement (original)

Swiftair informa que un avión MD83 de su compañía operado para Air Algerie despegó a las 0117 Z de Burkina Faso con destino a Argel y con hora prevista de llegada a las 0510 Z no ha llegado a destino. No se tiene hasta este momento contacto con la aeronave.

En el avión viajan 110 pasajeros y 6 tripulantes, de los cuales 2 son pilotos y 4 son tripulantes de cabina de pasajeros.

En estos momentos los equipos de emergencia y personal de la Compañía están trabajando en averiguar lo sucedido y a medida que se vayan conociendo más detalles de lo sucedido se irán emitiendo nuevos comunicados.

SwiftAir Statement (my translation, suggestions welcome)

SwiftAir has learned that their MD83 operated by Air Algeria which left Burkina Faso at 0117Z failed to arrive in Argel at 0510Z. Currently there is no contact with the aeroplane.

The plane is carrying 110 passengers and 6 crew, 2 of whom are pilots and 4 of whom are cabin crew.

At the moment all emergency equipment and personnel are being deployed by the Company to find the aircraft, as new details emerge they will be reported.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I was just about to post this. This is the 4th plane incident recently in a very short amount of time.

 

[Grayfox]

What is happening with jet lines?

One goes missing
One gets blown up
One crashes
Another goes missing.

 

[Robin]

Because plane technology hasn't progressed for the past 40 odd years.

Yes there have been advancements in materials, comfort, efficiency etc BUT the actual basic principles of flying a plane and the systems which fly it are pretty much the same as it was in the 60's. For example planes still can't be tracked all over the globe or have a live flight recorder download link with the ground.

 

[Vic Reign93]

So at the moment, 1 passenger plane shot down, 1 passenger plane crashed and now another has lost contact with control.

All in 1 week.

I would hope the missing plane has just a communications failure but honestly, I don't think that's the case.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Reports are that it has crashed due to bad weather. All 116 on board presumed dead.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/breaking-air-algerie-flight-ah5017-crashes-niger-due-bad-weather-1458125
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0724/632783-air-algerie/

 

[TenEightyOne]

Because plane technology hasn't progressed for the past 40 odd years.

Yes there have been advancements in materials, comfort, efficiency etc BUT the actual basic principles of flying a plane and the systems which fly it are pretty much the same as it was in the 60's. For example planes still can't be tracked all over the globe or have a live flight recorder download link with the ground.

Yup. I heard a colleague (non-engineer) the other day saying "I mean, you can find an iPhone anywhere in the world! Ha! Snort etc.". He was despatched by a number of engineers who pointed out that that's balls.

Part of the problem is that the ground infrastructure in much of the world doesn't allow planes to do anything more complicated than they can carry the equipment for... which is becoming more and more complex but is still limited and depends on an external electronic infrastructure.

And yes, the base function remains the same, large ballistic object supported by 2-or-4 lift surfaces under human direction (if not control). And you still have to fly it into that 10x10 sweet spot on the runway at about 150mph at the end of all that, whatever the wind conditions.

 

[Keef]

What is happening with jet lines?

One goes missing
One gets blown up
One crashes
Another goes missing.

Are you the same guy that is posting on Jalopnik asking conspiracy-like questions? They've all asked the same thing, "What is happening?"

It's called news on the internet. It travels fast these days. Fifteen years ago you wouldn't have even known Algeria had a regularly scheduled airline, if they did at all.

Aviation in Asia and Africa are booming. There are more airplanes in the sky in these regions than ever before. It's growing faster than their airspace systems can be refined which is leading to all sorts of sketchiness. China is a good example - I can't say I'd ever fly there in the foreseeable future. Other parts of Asia and Africa are even worse. Both the fact that everything doesn't crash in these regions and that we hear about it at all are amazing.

Also keep in mind that there are more car crashes in your city in a day than there will be scheduled airline crashes around the world in a year.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Aviation in Asia and Africa are booming. There are more airplanes in the sky in these regions than ever before. It's growing faster than their airspace systems can be refined which is leading to all sorts of sketchiness. China is a good example - I can't say I'd ever fly there in the foreseeable future. Other parts of Asia and Africa are even worse. Both the fact that everything doesn't crash in these regions and that we hear about it at all are amazing.

Also keep in mind that there are more car crashes in your city in a day than there will be scheduled airline crashes around the world in a year.

Ohh yes it is.

 

[sumbrownkid]

It's been a crap year for the airline industry and the families that suffered tragedies associated with it, but Malaysian Airlines though had an awful year in particular.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's been a crap year for the airline industry and the families that suffered tragedies associated with it, but Malaysian Airlines though had an awful year in particular.

Certainly, it's looking as though the state may fold the airline into private hands.

Given that the first incident has features which, to my mind, clearly show human intervention and the second even more so, if it wasn't for bad luck they'd have no luck at all. For two such events to happen in such a short space of time is even more incredible. That's why early into the second MA incident I couldn't believe that there wasn't a common cause between both crashes, same types, same flight profile. Just "one of those things" I guess.

I'd say that the number of air crashes of significance (any loss of life is naturally significant but I mean larger passenger aircraft in this context) has remained steady. It's just that the two MA losses have been particularly newsworthy.

This crash may well not have made the news without the current focus on air safety. Everywhere I look I see people asking "OMG what's happening with planes? ". Nothing, what's happening with their news?

It's true that without the MA crashes those threads wouldn't have existed, I wouldn't have posted this news in there, then I wouldn't have decided to move the post out into its own thread. So even my/our perception is having a direct effect on the way we report things.

Statistically nothing has changed, it's all perception, man

 

[sumbrownkid]

@TenEightyOne

I agree, it's all perception. We're more likely to perish in a car accident than perish in a plane crash. The only reason people perceive airline crashes as more likely because they receive far more media coverage than car crashes. In fact, car crashes only get coverage if A.) someone famous has died or B.) It really, really, was a terrible crash.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Regarding the Algerie Air/SwiftAir crash, it seems that pilots asked for a divert due to a high storms... sandstorms. Sand in an aircraft engine isn't something you ever want to happen. Storm could very well be related although it's worth adding that any pilot who knows the area would know about sandstorms.

Here's the thing; the pilots were Spanish, supplied to Algerie Air with the leaser MD83 that they were flying (AA normally operated a 737-600 on that route).

Given that the aircraft only shows on the route for the last few days I'd guess that the pilots may not have been as experienced in the peculiar super-Saharan meteorology. That's just a guess but it seems the weather could be a contributing factor. It's certainly the reason that searchers are having trouble looking for wreckage.

No mention has been made of the possibility of a hijack, Algeria has a reasonable history of hijacking incidents. That said we've heard nothing in terms of demands/claims of responsibility yet and the plane hasn't flown to any field that we know about. As with the missing MA flight it hasn't crashed until we know it's crashed... but once again as the maximum fly-time has gone by it seems fairly safe to presume.

 

[TenEightyOne]

DP to update thread; the wreckage of the flight has been found in Mali.

"They found human remains and the wreckage of the plane totally burnt and scattered," he told AP.

The pilot had contacted Niger's control tower in Niamey at around 01:30 GMT to change course because of a sandstorm, officials say.

Burkina Faso authorities said the passenger list comprised 27 people from Burkina Faso, 51 French, eight Lebanese, six Algerians, two from Luxembourg, five Canadians, four Germans, one Cameroonian, one Belgian, one Egyptian, one Ukrainian, one Swiss, one Nigerian and one Malian.

You can see the size of the storm on this image (from the above article);

 

[Michelin]

It may look small on the graphic, but for sure that's no small sandstorm...

 

[TenEightyOne]

It may look small on the graphic, but for sure that's no small sandstorm...

Quite right, it's massive! I wonder if the crew might have underestimated the diversion they needed to make in order to clear the sand? I'd actually want to be turning 90' to the west (looks like the pattern's anti-cyclonic and heading east). As I said before, the crew was Spanish and supplied with the jet only a few days before, it's conceivable that a lack of "local" meteo knowledge could be a factor.

No plane wants to fly through a sandstorm

 

[Keef]

And this is the risk you take when you fly in an area with no weather forecasting or reporting available. See and avoid. That's hard to do at 0130. Solution: Don't go.

 

[Michelin]

Sand and metal will never be a good combo. Never.

It's really conceivable that the lack of knowledge from the local weather. Just goes to show that you must prepare for all possible situations (even if that's impossible)

 

[Eyes Fried Open]

Ohh yes it is.

LOL.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Footage from the crash site. It seems to be filmed second-hand from a screen.

I couldn't see any signs of the passengers although they're presumably still there... watch at your own discretion.

 

[Keef]

Footage from the crash site. It seems to be filmed second-hand from a screen.

I couldn't see any signs of the passengers although they're presumably still there... watch at your own discretion.

Poor weather is thought to be the cause...

No, no, no NO NO NO, no no NO. Never. Ever. Weather has not and never will be thought to be the cause.

 

[TenEightyOne]

No, no, no NO NO NO, no no NO. Never. Ever. Weather has not and never will be thought to be the cause.

Errr... yes it is. The pilot requested a sandstorm diversion, have you seen the storm pics?

EDIT: You in the right thread dude?

 

[Keef]

Errr... yes it is. The pilot requested a sandstorm diversion, have you seen the storm pics?

EDIT: You in the right thread dude?

Contributing factor. The cause was the pilot's failure to avoid the sandstorm and various other related causes the investigating agency will isolate such as failure to get a weather briefing, failure of ATC to coordinate a deviation, failure of company dispatch to reroute or cancel the flight and other failures by parties involved in the operation of this flight. I give these as examples but you get the idea. Weather is never a cause, only a factor because it always exists and cannot be prevented. Accident investigation with HFACS, bruh, it's on my degree. You gotta think like swiss cheese.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Contributing factor. The cause was the pilot's failure to avoid the sandstorm and various other related causes the investigating agency will isolate such as failure to get a weather briefing, failure of ATC to coordinate a deviation, failure of company dispatch to reroute or cancel the flight and other failures by parties involved in the operation of this flight. I give these as examples but you get the idea. Weather is never a cause, only a factor because it always exists and cannot be prevented. Accident investigation with HFACS, bruh, it's on my degree. You gotta think like swiss cheese.

Twenty five percent of all weather-related accidents are fatal and a failure to recognize deteriorating weather continues to be a frequent cause or contributing factor of accidents.

I get what you're saying but it can be a complete cause where an unpredictable event occurs. It's on my CV too

I concur that in this case the pilots may not have realised the invisible breadth of some sandstorms, as we know they'd only been seconded to that route (along with the plane) from Spain for a few days.

(Source)