AI cheating at pit stops?

[BrunUK]

Did the sole Le Mans event - WTC800 5 laps - a few times last night and am convinced the AI is cheating in the pit stops.

At some point in the race I'll be ~25 seconds behind the leader when they pit, but somehow still come out far enough ahead of me to win. This shouldn't be possible, should it? I've timed my stops and it's more like 50 seconds for a full tank of fuel and no tyre change, even just driving through should take longer.

It's the sort of thing that feels like a bug, but this being Gran Turismo I reckon it's more likely to be deliberate. Will check out what happens on other similar events.

 

[Tomek90]

You can watch the replay and check his pit stops, sometimes they dont fill a full tank but rather fill enough to finish the race.

 

[jrbabbitt]

You can watch the replay and check his pit stops, sometimes they dont fill a full tank but rather fill enough to finish the race.

When refueling, look closely to the display when refueling, do you notice the little diamond just above the line, it will show you how much fuel you need to complete the race depending on your fuel mgmt settings.
For example if you pit with only three laps left to go, the diamond (depending on your setting) should be about halfway or near middle, click on the stop fueling button just after the fill line passes that diamond and you should have just enough gas to finish race.
It took me a bunch of daily race C in GTS to spot this and helped me improve my pit times

 

[BrunUK]

I don't think it's anything to do with fuel amount. I'll have to check but am pretty certain that even taking on no fuel at all and not changing tyres won't get you in and out of a pit stop in less than 30 seconds. At Le Mans at least, other circuits will no doubt vary.

 

[Grayfox]

The AI have a different pit box location, so they get serviced sooner.

But as soon as you've finished fueling you are exiting pit.
No waiting to drive down pit lane.

 

[Jo3f1sh]

Ran the 730pp GR3 race at Daytona yesterday. Entire grid pitted on the same lap. I was in 1st and came out in 6th. How is my pit crew this bad...

 

[BrunUK]

The AI have a different pit box location, so they get serviced sooner.

But as soon as you've finished fueling you are exiting pit.
No waiting to drive down pit lane.

I'm not sure there's any such concept of pit box location in GT, reckon they all happen in the same place. Explains why the sequence is so visually ambiguous.

It's simply a case of 'enter pitlane... some pre-determined delay... pit stop happens... immediate exit...'

Ran the 730pp GR3 race at Daytona yesterday. Entire grid pitted on the same lap. I was in 1st and came out in 6th. How is my pit crew this bad...

Did you change tyres? I've a feeling the AI don't in that race and it takes enough time to lose a few places.


I've been doing the endurance missions recently and the AI pitstops in that seem perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't surprise me if PD have developed different logic for different events.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

The AI have a different pit box location, so they get serviced sooner.

But as soon as you've finished fueling you are exiting pit.
No waiting to drive down pit lane.

That should be a moot point.

When you drive into the pit lane and your car vanishes, with the game flipping to watching your pit crew waiting for you to arrive, the amount of time they wait is different depending on track/pit length. It's to simulate your car travelling up the pit lane.

The AI cars may have pit boxes closer to the beginning of the pit lane, but once they've had their stop they still have to obey the pit lane speed limit, which ensures there is no benefit to having a pit box closer to entry - everyone still has to drive the pit lane at the same speed.

 

[BrunUK]

That should be a moot point.

Only in the real world. On Planet GT there is no 'after' the pit stop, cars teleport straight to the exit. If there was any difference in pit box locations - and therefore entry time - those nearer the entrance would have an advantage. However as I said above I don't think that's the case.

 

[Conquerer]

I've noticed suspicious pit gains as well, but tbqh I don't have anything concrete. I think a lot of the time the AI doesn't actually change tires which inherently gives them a good 5+ second advantage. Beyond that, some drivers may have conserved more fuel than you.

On the other hand, I jumped a car 5 seconds ahead of me in the Maggiore Endurance race yesterday cause I only fueled up for my next stint while he filled up to 100%. So you can pull off the same dramatic pit overtakes in certain situations.

Where the AI cheats though, seemingly, is their pace on worn tires and also on Intermediate/Wet tires they can sometimes feel unrealistically fast given the conditions. I've noticed the AI can keep up with me or even be faster sometimes on Inters than me on Wets in true Wet conditions, or the other way around. Or they'll be on well worn Hard tires way up the road ahead and more or less keeping pace with me on fresh Mediums, despite my head to head pace vs them being better earlier in the race and passing them on track without issue.

 

[Talon16]

Ran the 730pp GR3 race at Daytona yesterday. Entire grid pitted on the same lap. I was in 1st and came out in 6th. How is my pit crew this bad...

The AI doesn't change tires. Did you? If so, I'd expect you to lose about seven seconds on that alone. It could be more than that, but usually 7.X is what I see when my car drops and the fueling starts. At least, that's what happens with me.

Plus, how much fuel did you need compared to them?

It's a multi-variable equation here guys... not as simple as we all pit at the same time and they come out first!

 

[Jo3f1sh]

Next time I run it I'll have to look. Pretty sure the front runners were running softer compounds than I was, but I guess their soft and mediums wear slower than my hards.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Save replay, then watch and time the AI when they pit...

 

[Grayfox]

I'm not sure there's any such concept of pit box location in GT, reckon they all happen in the same place. Explains why the sequence is so visually ambiguous.

It's simply a case of 'enter pitlane... some pre-determined delay... pit stop happens... immediate exit...'


Did you change tyres? I've a feeling the AI don't in that race and it takes enough time to lose a few places.


I've been doing the endurance missions recently and the AI pitstops in that seem perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't surprise me if PD have developed different logic for different events.

That should be a moot point.

When you drive into the pit lane and your car vanishes, with the game flipping to watching your pit crew waiting for you to arrive, the amount of time they wait is different depending on track/pit length. It's to simulate your car travelling up the pit lane.

The AI cars may have pit boxes closer to the beginning of the pit lane, but once they've had their stop they still have to obey the pit lane speed limit, which ensures there is no benefit to having a pit box closer to entry - everyone still has to drive the pit lane at the same speed.

Only in the real world. On Planet GT there is no 'after' the pit stop, cars teleport straight to the exit. If there was any difference in pit box locations - and therefore entry time - those nearer the entrance would have an advantage. However as I said above I don't think that's the case.

I made a custom race at Circuit De La Sarthe to test this.
50x fuel consumption rate
3x tire wear rate.
Grid Start(so no fuel use before race start)
All AI using the same car as me which is a Suzuki Swift Gr.4
BOP Enabled.
Weather set to change to extreme downpour near the end of lap 1

All in all I tried to eliminate all variables.

• I chose to make all cars the same as in other attempts where I used Gr.3 cars some cars ran out of fuel faster than others which caused the grid to spread out.
• I enabled BOP so cars were still close together and if the AI uses any settings to change car values this would be nullified.
• By making the weather change I forced the AI to pit for change of tire type(from slicks to wets).
• I set fuel consumption to 50x to make it so everyone ran out of fuel and needed a full tank, and since all cars are the same, if any difference in fuel tank capacity existed by using other cars, this is negated.
• I enter pits about 1.6 seconds ahead of the AI in 2nd with 0 fuel just like the AI.

Now if everyone had the same pit bay, I should still come out ahead by 1.6 seconds due to that being my advantage going into pits.

1. While I did say your pit bay is last, this was based on how the AI can change tires and starts fueling up faster than you(as they start their work sooner)
2. But if you notice how your place drops while in pit(I went from P1 to P20), this will imply that your pit bay is first since you're being passed in pit
   But the thing is the two points seem to contradict each other.
   I enter 1st in pit and leave in 6th.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I made a custom race at Circuit De La Sarthe to test this.
50x fuel consumption rate
3x tire wear rate.
Grid Start(so no fuel use before race start)
All AI using the same car as me which is a Suzuki Swift Gr.4
BOP Enabled.
Weather set to change to extreme downpour near the end of lap 1

All in all I tried to eliminate all variables.

• I chose to make all cars the same as in other attempts where I used Gr.3 cars some cars ran out of fuel faster than others which caused the grid to spread out.
• I enabled BOP so cars were still close together and if the AI uses any settings to change car values this would be nullified.
• By making the weather change I forced the AI to pit for change of tire type(from slicks to wets).
• I set fuel consumption to 50x to make it so everyone ran out of fuel and needed a full tank, and since all cars are the same, if any difference in fuel tank capacity existed by using other cars, this is negated.
• I enter pits about 1.6 seconds ahead of the AI in 2nd with 0 fuel just like the AI.

Now if everyone had the same pit bay, I should still come out ahead by 1.6 seconds due to that being my advantage going into pits.

1. While I did say your pit bay is last, this was based on how the AI can change tires and starts fueling up faster than you(as they start their work sooner)
2. But if you notice how your place drops while in pit(I went from P1 to P20), this will imply that your pit bay is first since you're being passed in pit
   But the thing is the two points seem to contradict each other.
   I enter 1st in pit and leave in 6th.

That's quite thorough and commendable work, sir!

I wonder if the variable in this is the human element - when the AI approach the pit, their pit-stop strategy is already set, they know exactly what tires they're changing to and how much fuel to take on. We however have to pick our tires from a menu. Maybe that time selecting tires delays the pit-stop start?

An easy way to test that would be to time from pit entry to arrival and tire change, once with the selection made quickly and once made with a 5 second delay. If the overall pit time is slower with the slower selection, then that would show the AI have an unfair advantage.

 

[Grayfox]

That's quite thorough and commendable work, sir!

I wonder if the variable in this is the human element - when the AI approach the pit, their pit-stop strategy is already set, they know exactly what tires they're changing to and how much fuel to take on. We however have to pick our tires from a menu. Maybe that time selecting tires delays the pit-stop start?

An easy way to test that would be to time from pit entry to arrival and tire change, once with the selection made quickly and once made with a 5 second delay. If the overall pit time is slower with the slower selection, then that would show the AI have an unfair advantage.

I doubt tire choice menu effects anything, but it is an easy thing to test.

 

[MonoTonouS]

You 100% have a pit box, they wear the same colors as your suit livery.
Also, the pit lane is 100% animated once you leave, I remember ghosting through folks in sport and laughing at how that had not been fixed since 5 . What's stupid is some new tracks don't have enough space. High speed ring only has like 14 pit boxes .

 

[Tassie_tiger]

WTC 800 Le Mans:
When the cars 'enter' pit lane (ie. when the car disappears and the lap timer turns red), it takes approx. 31 seconds for the cars to stop in the pit box.
When the cars 'exit' the pit box they are all on the exact same part of the pit lane exit.

This is for all cars, be it the AI fastest, the AI slowest, or the player car.

You can search content replays uploaded in the game from random players and confirm for yourselves.

 

[Grayfox]

What's stupid is some new tracks don't have enough space. High speed ring only has like 14 pit boxes .

That just means double stacking, similar to F1.

 

[mynameis66]

Slightly off but anyway this is what happened with pit stops and the AI for me.
Tokyo Expressway,coming up to lap a backmarker just before pit entrance,he comes from the right,across my front so i end up punting him past the pit entrance.Off i went on my way,however looking at the info on the left side of the screen shows him pitting! How?Did he do a U turn or what?More funny than anything else but still weird.

 

[Cook1ngfat]

Did the sole Le Mans event - WTC800 5 laps - a few times last night and am convinced the AI is cheating in the pit stops.

At some point in the race I'll be ~25 seconds behind the leader when they pit, but somehow still come out far enough ahead of me to win. This shouldn't be possible, should it? I've timed my stops and it's more like 50 seconds for a full tank of fuel and no tyre change, even just driving through should take longer.

It's the sort of thing that feels like a bug, but this being Gran Turismo I reckon it's more likely to be deliberate. Will check out what happens on other similar events.

Same thing happens to me in all the races requiring pit stops , I've tried to pit in and take little feul but still takes 50 seconds

 

[Lomic]

Same thing happens to me in all the races requiring pit stops , I've tried to pit in and take little feul but still takes 50 seconds

And did you time the pit stop times of AI by watching the replays ? It is long for them too.