AI in the rain

[UnkaD]

Has anyone else noticed that the AI aren't really affected by the rain, and the drop in their pace seems forced by the game?

I'm trying to win the WTC 700 race at Red Bull Ring and the rain always shows up at awkward times. Even though the track is so short, the clouds on the radar rush over at ridiculous speeds, and have a second of rain shoots the surface water to 1/3 bar instantly.

This wouldn't be too much of a problem if I just had to crawl to the pits like the AI, but the AI don't really crawl at all. I lose a solid half of my grip, and the AI also on slicks seem to lose only about 10% of their pace. I half to brake about 150 meters earlier and apply no more than a quarter throttle. Meanwhile the AI just cruise past me like nothing has changed for them. It's infuriating.

It's not until 2/3 surface water that the AI start to actually slide in places.

I was expecting to be able to trounce the AI with rain, since all my time is made in the corners. But once everyone's on wet tires I find myself just matching their pace. Some of them are actually faster than me. A 3-4 second advantage over the fastest AI in the dry becomes a 1 second deficit. It's almost like they get to run the same lap times.

Am I just crazy or is anyone else experiencing this? I remember the same thing being a big problem in Project Cars.

 

[MonoTonouS]

The AI has ALL the assistance on. Go to a replay and look at how their assist circles flash like strobe lights in the rain.

 

[Lord Protector]

Has anyone else noticed that the AI aren't really affected by the rain, and the drop in their pace seems forced by the game?

I'm trying to win the WTC 700 race at Red Bull Ring and the rain always shows up at awkward times. Even though the track is so short, the clouds on the radar rush over at ridiculous speeds, and have a second of rain shoots the surface water to 1/3 bar instantly.

This wouldn't be too much of a problem if I just had to crawl to the pits like the AI, but the AI don't really crawl at all. I lose a solid half of my grip, and the AI also on slicks seem to lose only about 10% of their pace. I half to brake about 150 meters earlier and apply no more than a quarter throttle. Meanwhile the AI just cruise past me like nothing has changed for them. It's infuriating.

It's not until 2/3 surface water that the AI start to actually slide in places.

I was expecting to be able to trounce the AI with rain, since all my time is made in the corners. But once everyone's on wet tires I find myself just matching their pace. Some of them are actually faster than me. A 3-4 second advantage over the fastest AI in the dry becomes a 1 second deficit. It's almost like they get to run the same lap times.

Am I just crazy or is anyone else experiencing this? I remember the same thing being a big problem in Project Cars.

It’s true, I went even further and tried to push some of the AI cars with RH tyres on the still fully wet part of the track after it stopped raining. They were driving just fine. When I stepped on it with RH tyres, I instantly aquaplaned straight to the barrier.

 

[DrifterJoe]

One thing that may help is that there is more grip off the racing line in the wet than on it, until its dried up enough. AI run their normal line, so you can often run offline under braking to pass them, or round the outside of a corner like the long fast right turn at Fuji.

 

[UnkaD]

Glad it's not just me. I managed to win the race finally, but with these high end races it's starting to feel like winning is just a matter of whether the game wants to give it to you. What with all the fluctuations in the AI pace, whether they decide to 1-stop or 2-stop, and the weather always changing at just the right moments to impact you the most.

I'm sure I would love the dynamic weather in longer races online, but with these short sprints against AI it's a nightmare.

@DrifterJoe I'll try that out next time I'm on wet tires to see how it feels.

 

[RacingManiac]

I lost a drag race out of the last chicane of Suzuka in a R32 against a AMG GT....I got into that position because I braked 2 markers earlier than I normally do anticipating the wet and still slide off and came back on the track. AWD in that wet condition still lost to RWD car....

Rain, neat idea, horrible implementation...

 

[Moglet]

The AI definitely feel like they are much faster than they should be in the wet. I've had RWD AI cars gaining stupid amounts of time over me in a 4WD car on the same tyres on a track I'm experienced on. No matter how much TCS I seem to dial in they just walk away from me.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I have to admit that I haven't had any problems with the AI in rain races so far, maybe it's also because I seem to be able to cope quite well in the rain. The license tests ectr. were all unreservedly a walk for me. Except for the S10, where the problem for me was recognizing exactly where the track had dried and where it hadn't. I get along well with a completely wet surface, but not so well with these differences, at least in the license test.

 

[RacingManiac]

Other that the 917k one I really didn't have issue with licenses neither. You are forced to run not on line already when there are other cars around...also its just not that easy to keep track how wet it is relative to available grip for your tires...

 

[Ryan Dungey]

From my experience especially with the mission challenge at la sarthe the AI is certainly affected by the rain. I watched them aqua plane and spin out etc

 

[UnkaD]

I've done another Gr.4 race where the rain got so bad that the AI were driving like it was a safety car. We all jumped on full wets and I was actually blazing by them this time. Some cars spun and crashed, and I blew by the lead like they were sitting still.

But then the track began to dry a bit, and while my pace seemed to stagnate the two cars behind me went into overdrive, suddenly running as if they were on slicks in the dry without having to have pitted. There was nothing I could do, they passed me and were 5 seconds ahead in less than a lap.

This has me thinking that it's all scripted to give the impression that rain does affect them when it actually doesn't.

 

[JustMac]

On the contrary, I think GT7 is one of the few racing games I've played that have the AI actually convincingly affected by the rain. I've been playing a bit of ACC on PS5 over the last few weeks and it's like the AI aren't under the same weather conditions.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I caught them cheating many times with the rain. If you try this, you end up in the wall

The AI has no issues at all driving on the wet parts. He actually pitted while right behind me, I got a 25 sec lead which the AI closed in half a lap.

Then the AI plowed through me like he never saw me

The AI doesn't care about the rain, brakes like the track is dry, and here with half the car on the wet kerb and grass. Impossible.

 

[DeolTheBeast]

I caught them cheating many times with the rain. If you try this, you end up in the wall
View attachment 1136447
The AI has no issues at all driving on the wet parts. He actually pitted while right behind me, I got a 25 sec lead which the AI closed in half a lap.

Then the AI plowed through me like he never saw me
View attachment 1136448
The AI doesn't care about the rain, brakes like the track is dry, and here with half the car on the wet kerb and grass. Impossible.

I'm more concerned about the wing on the back of that 300SL 😩

Seriously though, the AI in rain does not have the same rules of engagement players have to put up with.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm more concerned about the wing on the back of that 300SL 😩

Seriously though, the AI in rain does not have the same rules of engagement players have to put up with.

Haha, the 300 SL can outrun GR.4 pro AI easily with that wing (and tuned), that is, until they start cheating in the rain

I'm sure the drill holes for that wing will buff out nicely The AI driving me into the wall though... That's gonna cost

 

[Grayfox]

Yeah can confirm this.
During one of my daily WTC700 at Lemans it started to rain after I started lap 4, track was over 50% wet.
AI I had passed had slicks on, I had slicks on.
I brake earlier for porsche curve, several corenrs before I had a 1/2 second lead to the AI at the braking zone
AI punts me as they're doing 30km/h more speed around that corner.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Not so true. Try the 24 Minutes of Le Mans in the Mission Challenge mode. Switch to Heavy Wet tires at the end of lap 2 then watch as the AI on slicks has trouble going in a straight line once the track becomes wet enough.

Also, the AI in that event switches to Inters instead of Heavy Wet tires, which makes them slow in the heavy rain. Inters are prone to aquaplaning if you leave the drying line, Heavy Wets are not.

If what OP said was true the event would be unwinnable. It's possible AI does not feel the effects of light rain, but if there's too little grip even their simplified physics can't save them.

 

[Grayfox]

Not so true. Try the 24 Minutes of Le Mans in the Mission Challenge mode. Switch to Heavy Wet tires at the end of lap 2 then watch as the AI on slicks has trouble going in a straight line once the track becomes wet enough.

Also, the AI in that event switches to Inters instead of Heavy Wet tires, which makes them slow in the heavy rain. Inters are prone to aquaplaning if you leave the drying line, Heavy Wets are not.

If what OP said was true the event would be unwinnable. It's possible AI does not feel the effects of light rain, but if there's too little grip even their simplified physics can't save them.

When around 40%-50% wetness and your braking distances are extended and you have to go slower on slicks, the AI should also be effected.
Even if they're on softs, if anything softs are the worst to use on a damp track as soft slicks work best when the tire is at the correct temp, and once that heat is gone, the tire becomes useless.
Hards retain their heat better.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Not so true. Try the 24 Minutes of Le Mans in the Mission Challenge mode. Switch to Heavy Wet tires at the end of lap 2 then watch as the AI on slicks has trouble going in a straight line once the track becomes wet enough.

Also, the AI in that event switches to Inters instead of Heavy Wet tires, which makes them slow in the heavy rain. Inters are prone to aquaplaning if you leave the drying line, Heavy Wets are not.

If what OP said was true the event would be unwinnable. It's possible AI does not feel the effects of light rain, but if there's too little grip even their simplified physics can't save them.

They are affected in a binary way. They don't feel the rain until it reaches a certain percentage, then the slow down to drive in a procession. It's a comedy you can 'exploit' on N24 although it won't make you rich

First the speed off like normal as if there's no water at all. Then when entering the Nordschleife they realize it's wet and start driving 90kph for the rest of the race. Although they do still get some boost after I pass them and some keep up better than they should.

They have great grip on intermediates, better than you around corners. But the AI sticks to speed limits depending on the tire. Hence it's easy to pass them on the straights. They also have moronic pit strategies and will go to intermediates, then to wets, then back to intermediates before going back to normal tires.

If they weren't pitting half the race and the AI actually paid attention to the weather radar, the event would indeed be unwinnable. Just look here at 10:15 how 'even' it is. GR.1 in the wet.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Meanwhile, in full wet conditions in a custom race...

 

[Shakengandulf]

I believe rain simulation is still a learning step for PD and im sure they'll improve it over time.
Maybe even during GT7s time we'll see it improve like the physics. Either way, im glad its in the game.

 

[Pizzapants]

They are affected in a binary way. They don't feel the rain until it reaches a certain percentage, then the slow down to drive in a procession.

Yep, that’s exactly it. It’s also not totally consistent that they’ll be affected at all. The AI is completely unaffected by the rain until suddenly they all are simultaneously completely incapacitated by it, and that moment isn’t always the same moment it starts affecting YOUR car. Just one of many examples where the AI is clearly playing by different rules than you are.

I believe rain simulation is still a learning step for PD and im sure they'll improve it over time.

Lol no. It’s just a bad, lazy, incompetent implementation of a feature that has been around for racing games since the 1990s. It’s not like rain was just invented last year, or the idea of having AI cars affected by the same things you’re affected by has anything to do with rain anyway. Giving Polyphony a pass on something so basic on the 7th game in this series — which has been out for more than a year by the way — is naive and foolish and you’re just letting them take advantage of you.

And don’t tell me “sophy will solve everything”. This game was sold to PS4 players for $80, and at no point was it disclosed that the AI would be braindead and less than half finished. PS4 players won’t ever see Sophy, and PS5 players will be long done with the game before they do either. We were lied to and ripped off.

 

[05XR8]

Well, I did a custom race with similar conditions as the Fuji Neo-Classic race. When the track got wet, HAve the field of AI were driving too fast at pit entry. Some cars hit the pit entry wall and keep trying to enter perpendicular to the wall. One AI managed to hit the corner of the wall, reversed and entered the pit lane. The others that hit the wall, kept hitting the wall for about 20 seconds, gave up and circled the track.
AI, at the back half of the field, slowed down while entering pit lane and navigated the curves, for clean entry to pit lane. Funny stuff.