AI NEEDS to be sufficient

[GT1 Esperante]

There is a glaring issue about Grand Turismo that hopefully will be addressed now that the series is transitioning to PS4. The AI is not very realistic.

The AI drivers have had very little to no awareness in the past, and this partly leads to the ability to overtake them with ease. I really hope this changes, and it would be nice to hear from others among you who agree. Also, I hope the true arcade mode from GT5 returns, where you can have the maximum amount of players, tire wear and fuel consumption, and the ability to race with cars you unlock without having to favorite them in your garage (such as in GT4). The lack of these things made the arcade mode of GT6 not fun for me. Also, the car balance was off. I always race on professional, but even still there are GT500 and GT300 cars on the grid when I am in a Mazda 787B. This lack of balance is not fun, as I like to race, not necessarily win. So who here agrees that GT Sport needs to have sufficient AI and a more complete arcade mode?

This post is not for those who will purchase GT Sport and GT7 for online play, so please don't waste time responding about how none of what I have to say bothers you, you will be blocked.

 

[eran0004]

The AI drivers have had very little to no awareness in the past, and this partly leads to the ability to overtake them with ease.

No it doesn't. Why you overtake them with ease is because they are aware of you, and back off when you're about to overtake them.

 

[JKgo]

...GT6's AI being rubberbanded idiots are nothing new. Overall the single player campaign is seen as lacklustre compared to its past iterations. And I agree somewhat with car balance not being satisfactory too.


It's just that... this sounds awfully like a bunch of suggestions you want to see implemented in the future GT games. If so, shouldn't this be in the appropriate Suggestions forums?

 

[GT1 Esperante]

No it doesn't. Why you overtake them with ease is because they are aware of you, and back off when you're about to overtake them.

If this is true, that is even worse.

...GT6's AI being rubberbanded idiots are nothing new.

It's just that... this sounds awfully like a bunch of suggestions you want to see implemented in the future GT games. If so, shouldn't this be in the appropriate Suggestions forums?

Savage. And this is less suggestions and more about searching for those who agree with these claims.

 

[eran0004]

If this is true, that is even worse.

It is true.

But I wouldn't say that it's worse than if the AI was not being aware of you, because then they would just ram you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...GT6's AI being rubberbanded idiots are nothing new. Overall the single player campaign is seen as lacklustre compared to its past iterations. And I agree somewhat with car balance not being satisfactory too.


It's just that... this sounds awfully like a bunch of suggestions you want to see implemented in the future GT games. If so, shouldn't this be in the appropriate Suggestions forums?

Agreed. There is already a thread for this in the Suggestions Forum.

 

[Robbks]

I don;t feel the AI needs to be in GTS at all.
it seems to be directed at an "online championship" style of gameplay at it's core

All I need extra is a free-run mode,
the ability to load other users' (aliens) ghost replays to chase around/ study
and an online lobby with quick-match and user created rooms.

the whole thing should just come as a digital download

 

[GT1 Esperante]

I don;t feel the AI needs to be in GTS at all.
it seems to be directed at an "online championship" style of gameplay at it's core

All I need extra is a free-run mode,
the ability to load other users' (aliens) ghost replays to chase around/ study
and an online lobby with quick-match and user created rooms.

the whole thing should just come as a digital download

No absolutely not. Not every gamer wants to race online, and not every online race is enjoyable. There are far too many people online in racing games that care more about ramming others off the road than actually racing. How am I supposed to compete in longer races with people? It GTS is online focused, it is a BAD move. Period. You may want those things, but I don't, and don't give me the "just don't play it" nonsense either. I have played Grand Turismo games for 16 years, ever since the first. Online only racing games are a poor design decision, just like it would be for practically any other genre, especially sports. What if other sports games go to an online championship model? How will people react to that? Not well I imagine.

I will be devastated if GTS or GT7 become online focused, that is a horrible idea.

 

[SonicCharmeleon]

No absolutely not. Not every gamer wants to race online, and not every online race is enjoyable. There are far too many people online in racing games that care more about ramming others off the road than actually racing. How am I supposed to compete in longer races with people? It GTS is online focused, it is a BAD move. Period. You may want those things, but I don't, and don't give me the "just don't play it" nonsense either. I have played Grand Turismo games for 16 years, ever since the first. Online only racing games are a poor design decision, just like it would be for practically any other genre, especially sports. What if other sports games go to an online championship model? How will people react to that? Not well I imagine.

I will be devastated if GTS or GT7 become online focused, that is a horrible idea.

Most games now are online-focused, very few people will want to buy a game that they can't play with their friends online. and game devs are trying to make social aspects into games. Its just how things are going right now.
(i really don't get this, if you don't want rammers, join a group or league.)

 

[Johnnypenso]

No absolutely not. Not every gamer wants to race online, and not every online race is enjoyable. There are far too many people online in racing games that care more about ramming others off the road than actually racing. How am I supposed to compete in longer races with people? It GTS is online focused, it is a BAD move. Period. You may want those things, but I don't, and don't give me the "just don't play it" nonsense either. I have played Grand Turismo games for 16 years, ever since the first. Online only racing games are a poor design decision, just like it would be for practically any other genre, especially sports. What if other sports games go to an online championship model? How will people react to that? Not well I imagine.

I will be devastated if GTS or GT7 become online focused, that is a horrible idea.

They've Already been clear that the game will retain the offline racing mode but since this is a beta I wouldn't expect it to be near the size and scope of previous games. Still, anything is possible at this point.

 

[MrF1]

Zzzzzzzz.....

 

[JKgo]

precious games

...My precious.

I think a beta won't have an offline component at all. Even if it did, I will be amazed if it's anything more than a single car/single track combo in a free run mode.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I don;t feel the AI needs to be in GTS at all.
it seems to be directed at an "online championship" style of gameplay at it's core

All I need extra is a free-run mode,
the ability to load other users' (aliens) ghost replays to chase around/ study
and an online lobby with quick-match and user created rooms.

the whole thing should just come as a digital download

Sorry to burst your bubble but most of us here want a decent offline mode just as much as we want good online. You're suggesting that they basically take GT6 and remove the offline portion to focus on online only. Think about it: you've already got the ability to download ghosts, quick matches and user-created rooms. So if that's all you want, just play GT6.

And why as a digital download only? I agree, the option should be there for anyone who wants to just buy the game and not have to worry about a disc, but certain members of this community (like me) enjoy the tangibility of a physical game.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...My precious.

I think a beta won't have an offline component at all. Even if it did, I will be amazed if it's anything more than a single car/single track combo in a free run mode.

Yes, I guess we have to separate the Beta from the full game, although I suspect even the Beta will have something offline, perhaps an Arcade Mode or race creator.

 

[FoRiZon]

No it doesn't. Why you overtake them with ease is because they are aware of you, and back off when you're about to overtake them.

B - Spec Bob ironically is a far better AI than the current racing AI on GT6. Wasted potential right there.

 

[gtracedriver1]

No absolutely not. Not every gamer wants to race online, and not every online race is enjoyable. There are far too many people online in racing games that care more about ramming others off the road than actually racing. How am I supposed to compete in longer races with people? It GTS is online focused, it is a BAD move. Period. You may want those things, but I don't, and don't give me the "just don't play it" nonsense either. I have played Grand Turismo games for 16 years, ever since the first. Online only racing games are a poor design decision, just like it would be for practically any other genre, especially sports. What if other sports games go to an online championship model? How will people react to that? Not well I imagine.

I will be devastated if GTS or GT7 become online focused, that is a horrible idea.

GTS is obviously going to have online competition. But there will be offline mode too that's all we know so far.

But I disagree that GT AI is dumb. AI is ok but the problem is they are not very fast and the whole concept of rolling start with AI having good lead and you catch, overtake them before the race gets over is just bad

 

[Robbks]

Sorry to burst your bubble but most of us here want a decent offline mode just as much as we want good online. You're suggesting that they basically take GT6 and remove the offline portion to focus on online only. Think about it: you've already got the ability to download ghosts, quick matches and user-created rooms. So if that's all you want, just play GT6.

And why as a digital download only? I agree, the option should be there for anyone who wants to just buy the game and not have to worry about a disc, but certain members of this community (like me) enjoy the tangibility of a physical game.

Well, as GT-S is a PS4 release, I'd like the better sounds that have been promised, and better graphics of the more powerful machine.

All the offline stuff can be saved for the release of GT7.

I'm still tipping that GT-S is a move to appease the "Racing" Game fans with FIA backed content, etc,
and GT7 will be for the "Grand Touring" / Driving/ Cruising/ Photo-mode Fans.

PD have shown in no less than 6 cases that they struggle to get Offline AI right, so wasting time on it in GT-S seems like a silly option.
concentrate on it for GT7 and Get GTS on the shelves for online racing fans.

 

[eran0004]

B - Spec Bob ironically is a far better AI than the current racing AI on GT6. Wasted potential right there.

Why is that ironic? And what makes it better?

 

[Psychopulse]

Definitely, AI does need more life. Right now they're practically zombie drivers... Even on on 10/10 aggressive level in arcade, still zombified!! On a side note, I believe there is a suggestion for this!!

 

[Johnnypenso]

What would be really ironic is if PD created some competitively paced AI with lifelike behaviour, but hardcoded the rubber banding

 

[GT1 Esperante]

They've Already been clear that the game will retain the offline racing mode but since this is a beta I wouldn't expect it to be near the size and scope of previous games. Still, anything is possible at this point.

Fair enough.

 

[GT1 Esperante]

GTS is obviously going to have online competition. But there will be offline mode too that's all we know so far.

But I disagree that GT AI is dumb. AI is ok but the problem is they are not very fast and the whole concept of rolling start with AI having good lead and you catch, overtake them before the race gets over is just bad

I don't even think that the AI is slow, it is that on too many occasions, the HP of the cars is quite diverse, way too diverse.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't even think that the AI is slow, it is that on too many occasions, the HP of the cars is quite diverse, way too diverse.

The AI is slow. It can't lap at anything close to competitive times vs. a decent sim pilot with the same equipment. Add in rubber banding that can slow cars down 10 seconds per lap in a 2 minute lap and it's not even really racing anymore. The AI code needs to be thrown in the trash along with the standards and start from scratch. Other games have no trouble creating extremely competitive AI, I'm sure PD can do the same.

 

[Mike_grpA]

...All the offline stuff can be saved for the release of GT7....

...concentrate on it for GT7 and Get GTS on the shelves for online racing fans.

This is a terrible idea, and would guarantee GTS sells poorly, likely worse than GT5 Prologue.

 

[Chaos Control]

No it doesn't. Why you overtake them with ease is because they are aware of you, and back off when you're about to overtake them.

That I think is what he is getting at and something, in my opinion, that makes it so easy. I want to see the AI object to me overtaking him and do something about it. And I want to see the AI screw up on their own sometimes. Like a more refined AI engine from GT 1,2, or 3.

 

[Tornado]

GT1-GT3's AI was much worse than GT6's.

 

[Chaos Control]

GT1-GT3's AI was much worse than GT6's.

Okay I agree with you, I should reword it. If GT6's AI made humon-like errors sometimes and didn't feel like drones, it would have made the single player more fun. In the older games, they felt more alive in terms of racing not just with you but with everyone else. But yeah i do see how they were kinda braindead back then, but they were fun.

 

[chzsln485]

Okay I agree with you, I should reword it. If GT6's AI made humon-like errors sometimes and didn't feel like drones, it would have made the single player more fun. In the older games, they felt more alive in terms of racing not just with you but with everyone else. But yeah i do see how they were kinda braindead back then, but they were fun.

Let's not forget the decent AI on show in the Red Bull X Challenge events, which you may remember had grid starts. I do wonder if the rolling start race patterns were more of an issue than the actual AI itself, in some instances - once they were given the opportunity to race from a grid start, rather than spaced far apart like in normal single player races, they weren't too bad.

 

[Chaos Control]

Let's not forget the decent AI on show in the Red Bull X Challenge events, which you may remember had grid starts. I do wonder if the rolling start race patterns were more of an issue than the actual AI itself, in some instances - once they were given the opportunity to race from a grid start, rather than spaced far apart like in normal single player races, they weren't too bad.

I really miss the grid starts. I think it would be a good idea to bring them back. (but not for all tracks, like daytona for example)

 

[chzsln485]

I really miss the grid starts. I think it would be a good idea to bring them back. (but not for all tracks, like daytona for example)

I think it was a performance issue compounded by poor AI. You had significant screen tearing and frame drops on grid start, as well as the ability to overtake the entire field by the first couple of turns, so they ditched them in one of the GT5 updates and kept it largely the same for most races (aside from one make races in GT5 and Red Bull X events in GT6) You would hope those constraints would not be an issue in a PS4 game...