AK-47 inventor: U.S. troops in Iraq prefer my rifle to theirs

[blaire576]

Last update - 13:25 17/04/2006
AK-47 inventor: U.S. troops in Iraq prefer my rifle to theirs
By Reuters

Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in
preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used [Kalashnikov] AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

Kalashnikov designed his first weapon in 1947 and is still chief constructor at Izhmash arms factory in Izhevsk in the Urals mountains.

The factory's director Vladimir Grodetsky told the news conference that around a billion rifles had been produced around the world using parts of Kalashnikovs or based on the same design, only 10-12 percent of which were made in Russia.

 

[Appie]

damn, i never knew it was this good of a gun

 

[amp88]

Can't say I'm surprised. The M16 wasn't developed for desert combat, the AK-47 is a lot more reliable in the sand. I think it's also more powerful.

 

[ferrari_chris]

I don't know much about guns, but I knew it was like this. Super-reliable I mean.

But, doesn't the AK-47 lose a lot of accuracy over a long distance? It's really designed for close combat. To hit anything over 100m away is pure luck?

 

[DQuaN]

Both guns have their strengths and weaknesses.

The M16 has the superior accuracy and fire rate, where as the AK-47 has superior durability and stopping power.

In extreme environments the durability wins hands down. What good is an accurate gun if it doesn't fire?

 

[donbenni]

The biggest downer in using the AK is that it sounds like an AK. In Vietnam US soldiers couldn't associate the AK's sound with the enemy as they were using it too. I'm sure it's the same in Iraq.

 

[a6m5]

AK's always had reputation for reliability. M-16s looks nice, but in a combat situation, I'd rather take AKs as well.

P.S. I don't remember the name, but there was a rifle that looked just like AK-47 by the Germans in World War II. Could it possibly be a copy?

 

[Master_Yoda]

Can't say I'm surprised. The M16 wasn't developed for desert combat, the AK-47 is a lot more reliable in the sand. I think it's also more powerful.

We havn't used the M16 in the army for some 20 years now. We have many versions of the M16, and right now we use a Colt M4, or a M4/A1 Carbine Assualt Rifle. In looks comparing those to different M4's visually, is like comparing 2 different versions of the R34 GTR. But there's also about 100 different types of M4's, for different uses. Like at night we SHOULD use the M4 SOPMOD, with it's night vision scope.

But the AK-47, has been around for more then 50 years. In fact it was made in 1947, hence the name. The reason it is used still today, is because of practicality. The gun can go for a long time with out cleaning, it has a better range. But one draw back, if you don't shoot it in burst, the bullets go flying, and god knows where the will hit. Burst are usually 2-4 shots, but really, only the first 3 shots are accurate.


The AK-47, is also, a whole lot cheaper then the M4, and a whole easier to maintain. Even though the M4 does come with lots of options, theres still other versions of the AK, that most of you guys would never of heard of. AK-74, which shoots a 5.45mm instead of a 7.62mm. Also they have other varients in classes, such as the SVD (sniper).

AK is just so easly to getm and buy, and more then 50 different countries use the AK-47 in there military.

AK's always had reputation for reliability. M-16s looks nice, but in a combat situation, I'd rather take AKs as well.

P.S. I don't remember the name, but there was a rifle that looked just like AK-47 by the Germans in World War II. Could it possibly be a copy?

Sorry for double-post.
Yes, in WWII, the Nazi Army (not Germans, get that right, theres a difference) had created the MP44, which the AK is designed after, since it was such a great gun. MP44, was created before the AK, MP44 was infacr in use in the early 40's, when in 47, Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov was quit young, ans was told to make a gun. And the AK-47 was that gun.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I'd do the same thing if I was a soldier over in the middle east. I watched a show where they compared the AK-47 to the M-16, which really helped to show the major differences. At one point, they talked about how the designer of the AK-47 tied it to the back of a jeep and drove down a gravel road for a couple of miles, and was still able to fire the guy with no problems. It was also able to punch through cinder block walls, where the M-16 merely broke concrete off.

Its like comparing a scalpel to a butchers knife, and if your fighting for your life, what one would you rather have?

 

[Solid Lifters]

The two big differences in the rifles are the cheap, lose construction of the AK, and the heavy grain weight of the 7.62 x 39 bullet. Both give the AK advantages over the M16/M4 in warfare.

The lose parts allow for junk, debris and sand to just flow threw the gun and this prevents the weapon from getting jammed. The heavier grain weight of the 7.62 bullet punches through things a lot better than the .223 bullet. It's all do to physics. The .223 is 55 grains, and the 7.62 is around 137 grains. That extra weight allows the 7.62 bullet to stay together and penetrate deeper and punch targets harder.

What would you prefer to get hit buy if you had to choose between the two?

 

[ND4SPD]

What a great gun the AK is. I have a question, does anyone have any good information on the AK-105? I love the way that gun looks but haven't really gotten much info on that. Here's something I was recently thinking about, the M16 is getting quite dated and along with the M4, my question is, are they due for a replacement anytime soon or they stil gonna be using the same standard issue M16's and M4 carbines in 10 years? The upcoming XM8 looked like a far superior gun than the M16 and M4, had many accessories for the gun. There were 4 variants that could be made from the gun too. Combat versions and even long range versions of the XM8 but that recently got scrapped by the government I believe, that gun was pretty much ready to be issued into combat, there were several fully operational models already made and they were shown at many gun shows. Anyone know the exact reason why the XM8 project was scrapped? Did I mention how badass this gun looks?! Another great gun that could have been made but also go scrapped by the government was the OICW, if anyone knows what that was, it was a very bad gun indeed...

Here's an overview of the XM8:


And here's the OICW disassembled for your viewing pleasure:

 

[ExigeEvan]

If it wasn't for the desert war-games prior to Iraq the Brits would probably be fighting with AKs aswell. The old SA-80s were terrible.

 

[Solid Lifters]

The US was planning on replacing the M16 with the XM-8, but have halted those plans. No doubt, the hatred for the .223 calibre is the cause.

 

[ND4SPD]

If it wasn't for the desert war-games prior to Iraq the Brits would probably be fighting with AKs aswell. The old SA-80s were terrible.

The SA-80's were terrible, but wasn't the updated SA-80A2 an amazing gun?

 

[jammyozzy]

*Anal note* It's not called the SA80. The term 'SA80' refers to three weapons, what is generally described as the SA80 (actually the L85), the L86 LSW and the L98 cadet GP rifle. It means 'Small Arms of the 80's.'

Anyway, I wouldn't say amazing, but it's certainly one of the most accurate assault rifles in the world. I've had the chance to fire the cadet GP version of it (8 times infact), and it is very accurate. Not particularly nice to handle though, all the weight is in the back.

Still, that might be slightly better with the L85, because the gas blowback system is located directly above the foregrip, so the weight distribution may be better.

Anyway, I'm not at all suprised that troops are taking the AK47 over the M16/M4. More stopping power under about 100m, more reliable, quite possibly more abundant and more effective at closer ranges.

 

[ND4SPD]

*Anal note* It's not called the SA80. The term 'SA80' refers to three weapons, what is generally described as the SA80 (actually the L85), the L86 LSW and the L98 cadet GP rifle. It means 'Small Arms of the 80's.'

Anyway, I wouldn't say amazing, but it's certainly one of the most accurate assault rifles in the world. I've had the chance to fire the cadet GP version of it (8 times infact), and it is very accurate. Not particularly nice to handle though, all the weight is in the back.

Still, that might be slightly better with the L85, because the gas blowback system is located directly above the foregrip, so the weight distribution may be better.

I've heard its quite a heavy gun though, which is what limits it. Is that true? Does anyone know the exact weight of that gun? The XM8 was projected to only weigh around 5.7lbs thanks to its plastic composite parts.

 

[jammyozzy]

Yeah, it is very heavy, even without the gas blowback system installed. (Although I'm sure the stupidly huge cocking lever they install in its place probably compensates for that. ) Like I said, most of the weight is in the back due to its bullpup design, and I'm sure that doesn't help with recoil control in the fully automatic models.

It's 5kg with a full 30 round magazine and SUSAT sight, which equates to:
"5 kilogram = 11.023 113 109 lb, lbs".

 

[ND4SPD]

Yeah, it is very heavy, even without the gas blowback system installed. (Although I'm sure the stupidly huge cocking lever they install in its place probably compensates for that. ) Like I said, most of the weight is in the back due to its bullpup design, and I'm sure that doesn't help with recoil control in the fully automatic models.

It's 5kg with a full 30 round magazine and SUSAT sight, which equates to:
"5 kilogram = 11.023 113 109 lb, lbs".

Damn, didn't know they were that heavy! Thats half the XM8's weight!

 

[jammyozzy]

Yeah, it is pretty hefty.

Speaking of the XM-8 and the L85, H&K has turned its hand to fixing some of the M16/M4's inherant design flaws. Meet the HK416:

Looks like their designers are working about as hard as Porsche's.

Interestingly, it's avaliable as both a complete weapon or just an upper bolt assembly. Quick and easy M4 upgrade anyone? 💡

 

[ND4SPD]

Yeah, it is pretty hefty.

Speaking of the XM-8 and the L85, H&K has turned its hand to fixing some of the M16/M4's inherant design flaws. Meet the HK416:

Looks like their designers are working about as hard as Porsche's.

Interestingly, it's avaliable as both a complete weapon or just an upper bolt assembly. Quick and easy M4 upgrade anyone? 💡

Looks like an M4 with attitude!

 

[ejr_1]

We havn't used the M16 in the army for some 20 years now. We have many versions of the M16, and right now we use a Colt M4, or a M4/A1 Carbine Assualt Rifle. In looks comparing those to different M4's visually, is like comparing 2 different versions of the R34 GTR. But there's also about 100 different types of M4's, for different uses. Like at night we SHOULD use the M4 SOPMOD, with it's night vision scope.

Not accodring to the US military's website, and from what I know, the US is using the M16A3. They also use the M4.

Link

The M4 is a carbine variant of the M16. The M4 is basically a shortened M16A2 rifle.

About the US troops using AK's. I think I'd rather use a weapon with that kind of stopping power and duriblity over an M16. The US really has to get going on a new weapons system again. It's a shame the XM8 has been temporarly scraped while they re-think the requirements for the replacement. Another weapon system in the works is the SCAR. It will be interesting to see which gets chosen.




- Correct me if on wrong about any of these things.
- Also, I'd like to quote my source for this info as world.guns

 

[jammyozzy]

Hmm...I'd actually prefer an L85/G3 over an AK at longer ranges. While the AK round is powerful close up, it starts to lose its punch and wander all over the place past about 100m. Interestingly, 100m is about the distance that NATO 5.56 begins to tumble at...

 

[Master_Yoda]

Guys, stop saying M16. We have stopped using them over 20 YEARS AGO! M16's are crap, and they jam waaaay to much. So saying if you where a soilder i would trade my M16 for a AK can't be true. Cause we don't use M16's anymore.

I would much rather have a M4 what they use NOW, since i wouldn't want to be guessing where my bullets are going. Yes AK has longer range, and you don't have to clean as much. But i want to hit my target, i don't mind cleaning the gun every night.

 

[ejr_1]

Guys, stop saying M16. We have stopped using them over 20 YEARS AGO! M16's are crap, and they jam waaaay to much. So saying if you where a soilder i would trade my M16 for a AK can't be true. Cause we don't use M16's anymore.

I would much rather have a M4 what they use NOW, since i wouldn't want to be guessing where my bullets are going. Yes AK has longer range, and you don't have to clean as much. But i want to hit my target, i don't mind cleaning the gun every night.

Did you even read my post? The US use M16's as the basic infinatry weapon.

www.army.mil

 

[jammyozzy]

The M16A1 had a tendancy to jam easily. The A2, A3 and A4 however do not.

The M4A1 is basically a shortened M16A2, and yet you don't hear people complaining constantly about its 'excessive' jamming.

The AK47 AKM weighs less than the M16A2. While this isn't really an advantage, it does disprove the theory that the M16 is "plastic ****".

The M16 and M4 have a longer effective range than the AK47, and have more potential to actually incapacitate a target due to the 5.56 NATO's tencancy to fragement.

I believe the phrase "It takes 3 seconds to gain a reputation, and 3 years to lose one." is particularly apt here.

 

[Solid Lifters]

The M16A1 had a tendancy to jam easily. The A2, A3 and A4 however do not.

The M4A1 is basically a shortened M16A2, and yet you don't hear people complaining constantly about its 'excessive' jamming.

The AK47 AKM weighs less than the M16A2. While this isn't really an advantage, it does disprove the theory that the M16 is "plastic ****".

The M16 and M4 have a longer effective range than the AK47, and have more potential to actually incapacitate a target due to the 5.56 NATO's tencancy to fragement.

I believe the phrase "It takes 3 seconds to gain a reputation, and 3 years to lose one." is particularly apt here.

You are correct. The M16/M4 are great rifles and have advantages over the AKs. But, some troops in Iraq prefer the AKs.

They don't jam for the reasons I gave earlier. They have better penetration on humans and walls. Just what the soldiers in Iraq need right now. Most battles are occurring at close ranges and AKs are better suited for this type of fighting. So, it's no surprise some US troops prefer to use AKs during certain battles.

 

[Joey D]

We still use M-16's in the military, there are so many varients of it. But I know for a fact the Marine Corps uses the rifle and it's what you get on your first day of boot camp. But the M-16 has been in service since the 1960's. So its not out of service. Just watch CNN and the Iraq War coverage, you'll see em.

We also use the M4, which is smaller and more compact.

But since we are on the AK, I want to add, yet again my favorite quote from one of my favorite movies.

Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the worlds most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound algemation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.

 

[Omnis]

What happened to Le Clairon, The FAMAS rifle?

Are they only good for urban environments, and stuff?

 

[a6m5]

Yes, in WWII, the Nazi Army (not Germans, get that right, theres a difference) had created the MP44,

Isn't it Nazi-Germany though? Just like Imperial Japan? I don't see anything wrong with referring to WWII Nazi-Germany weapon as a German.

MP44, was created before the AK, MP44 was infacr in use in the early 40's, when in 47, Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov was quit young, ans was told to make a gun. And the AK-47 was that gun.

Thanks, that's the one. I found a picture of it too:

MP44

AK-47

Mechanism might be totally different for all I know, but it sure looks damn close on the exterior!

 

[Doggie]

But, doesn't the AK-47 lose a lot of accuracy over a long distance? It's really designed for close combat. To hit anything over 100m away is pure luck?

Nope. An average shooter can hit a mansized target with AK-47 up to 300 meters. Longer than that you need a sniper and some luck. Speaking from personal experience.

Has anybody came across this:

http://www.answers.com/topic/rk-62

Like in so many things, Finnish desingers took somebody else's desing and improved it... Actually the latest model is still based on AK-47, and I have heard it is a very good assault rifle. This one:

Haven't tested it thou, like I have tested the AK-47 and RK-62.

Pictures and info from: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as43-e.htm