Am I Wrong To Assume People Should Know Certain Things?

[YSSMAN]

Earlier today, I spent about an hour argueing with my brother over the "problem" that I seem to think that there are certain things people should know about given topics when people are talking about them, are a fan of them, etc.

Baisicly, the arguement was over if he should know certain things about the Chevrolet Chevelle (such as the fact that the 396 was actually a 402 after 1969) as a Chevrolet fan, and as a Chevelle fan. I was baisicly told I was an ass, and that things like that don't matter.

I dissagreed, saying that knowing certain facts about certain things is helpful in a conversation with other people, etc. To me, you should know atleast SOMETHING interesting about whatever you like, if it be a little-known fact, etc.

So this brings me to the more broad question: Are there certain things that people SHOULD know? Should people have to know facts about the things that they like or enjoy? This also ties into the realm of education, particularly to the question if history is important, etc.

...I'd love to hear your thoughts...

 

[Keef]

I think people should know that brushing their teeth is healthy, but not too hard or you'll pull a sandpaper and grind them away. They should also know that it's cool to smell decent. A red light means stop, maybe?

Anyway, I don't think you should get pissed at a person who doesn't know the particular fact you're looking for. Except Famine, but that's a different story. I mean, I like Porsches, obviously, but I don't know the name of the first car they made. Nobody knows everything, especially since people are just getting intersted in something the entire time they're studying it. What about people who just started learning about a topic yesterday? Sure, they're intersted in it a ton, but they don't know anything yet.
A person that is labelled an expert about anything should definitely know something, and if not they should easily be able to find out. But your brother isn't labelled an expert by the SAE or anything.
Here's another thing: if people are required to do something they feel less interested in doing it. So if people had to know stuff they'd know even less than if it was just a hobby. Maybe.

 

[Kylehnat]

Baisicly, the arguement was over if he should know certain things about the Chevrolet Chevelle (such as the fact that the 396 was actually a 402 after 1969) as a Chevrolet fan, and as a Chevelle fan. I was baisicly told I was an ass, and that things like that don't matter.

He's right; things like that don't matter. If you want to hold it against him, fine, but that's pretty petty. Also, when is that fact going to matter? I've never seen it come up in Trivial Pursuit.

I've been an F1 fan for 15 years. I know the ins-and-outs of the sport as it is today, but I don't know who finished 7th in the 1958 German Grand Prix. Should I? It hasn't killed me yet...

 

[LeadSlead#2]

with the situation you describe, no, no he should not have to know that. I'm a big fan of people having more common sense and more common knowledge, but that's entirely too picky man.
should that idiot know that when he pulls out in front of me, slamming on the brakes, and covering his face won't help? YES. He's a ****ing idiot. and a coward. he stopped sideways in front of 2 lanes of traffic, going 50mph, because he thinks hitting the brakes fixes things. moron. on the topic title, yes. on that situation, no. Plus, there's always more to learn. nobody knows everything about anything. so you could always come up with something that even an expert doesnt know.
On the other hand, if your bro acts like he's a masterful fan and knows a lot about them, nail 'em to them wall

 

[Swift]

Anyone that considers themselves knowledgable or an expert of a topic should want to know all they can. Anything less is defeating the entire purpose of talking about it. They would just be a "fan" and we all know that fans tend to NOT rely on the whole story.

 

[Niels]

Preferably, but it isn't a must.

 

[Diego440]

But on one extreme, if you know too much of one thing and little of the rest you become an idiot savvant (sp?)

 

[Swift]

Actually, this reminds me of something Danoff said a long time ago:

"If you don't know why you have an opinion on something and can't back it up with information, you opinion isn't valid"

I think that holds true for this discussion.

 

[Diego440]

I think Danoff said that to me... my answer was something to the effect that opinions are based on assumptions, not on information.

Although in reality opinion is a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.

 

[Swift]

I think Danoff said that to me... my answer was something to the effect that opinions are based on assumptions, not on information.

Although in reality opinion is a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.

Well, in that case your opinion is unfounded. This is why often, in political battles, politicians don't focus on facts, but circumstances. "Nevermind the fact that the job rate is as high as it is or the strength of the economy. I can bring 'values' back to the government" and so on....

 

[Wolfe]

I think YSSMAN is right -- there are certain things that people should know, especially if it's something that interests them. The only problem is defining what "certain things" means, and that definition will likely change from person to person (although I have a feeling YSSMAN and I see things approximately eye-to-eye on this ).

For example, in my opinion, everyone should have some idea of the geography of our world, and certainly the geography of the nation they live in. Also, everyone should know how to count and do simple arithmetic (no really, I'm serious -- I have to deal with this at work a lot)....too many people don't know simple things like these.

As for things that you have an interest in...no offense to keef, but I think that if you like Porsches you should know that the first production model they made was the 356. I also think that if you like such-and-such car, you should know how many cylinders its engine has and what arrangement they're in, where the drivetrain is, approximately how much horsepower it has, whether the engine is forced-induction or naturally-aspirated, and how big the engine is. But maybe that's just me.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

For example, in my opinion, everyone should have some idea of the geography of our world, and certainly the geography of the nation they live in. Also, everyone should know how to count and do simple arithmetic (no really, I'm serious -- I have to deal with this at work a lot)....too many people don't know simple things like these.

yeah, like that north and south America are, in fact, seperate continents, and that mexicans are, in fact, not Americans, but rather mexicans, or North americans.

As for things that you have an interest in...no offense to keef, but I think that if you like Porsches you should know that the first production model they made was the 356. I also think that if you like such-and-such car, you should know how many cylinders its engine has and what arrangement they're in, where the drivetrain is, approximately how much horsepower it has, whether the engine is forced-induction or naturally-aspirated, and how big the engine is. But maybe that's just me.

I do agree, just not on the first model part. I like Porsches, but only new ones, I think the older ones are ugly. I know the 911 Turbo is a straight six, (boxer engine I believe) twin-turbo, boasting about 475hp, with all-wheel drive, and retails for more than I'll make in the next 2 years. 3.6L?

 

[Wolfe]

I know the 911 Turbo is a straight six, (boxer engine I believe) twin-turbo, boasting about 475hp, with all-wheel drive, and retails for more than I'll make in the next 2 years. 3.6L?

Almost completely correct -- just drop the "straight" part from "straight six." A "straight six" is the same thing as an "inline six," which, as I'm sure you know, is different from the 911's "flat six," A.K.A. "boxer six."

 

[Niels]

Well, in that case your opinion is unfounded. This is why often, in political battles, politicians don't focus on facts, but circumstances. "Nevermind the fact that the job rate is as high as it is or the strength of the economy. I can bring 'values' back to the government" and so on....

You can have an opinion on everything, even things you don't have evidence for. What about opinions of emotions?

You can even have an opinion about Aliens or UFO's, though there's no valid or usefull information about either of them.

 

[Wolfe]

You can have an opinion on everything, even things you don't have evidence for. What about opinions of emotions?

You can even have an opinion about Aliens or UFO's, though there's no valid or usefull information about either of them.

And because your opinions about aliens and UFO's aren't based on fact, they would be unfounded, as Swift said.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Almost completely correct -- just drop the "straight" part from "straight six." A "straight six" is the same thing as an "inline six," which, as I'm sure you know, is different from the 911's "flat six," A.K.A. "boxer six."

Damn!!! I was gonna say Flat, but I was sadly, never informed there was a difference. oh well, at least I called it a boxer. is it inline?

 

[Wolfe]

Damn!!! I was gonna say Flat, but I was sadly, never informed there was a difference. oh well, at least I called it a boxer. is it inline?

Nope, it's not inline. It's boxer/flat -- and there's no difference between flat and boxer.

These are the three most common types of piston engines:

Straight/inline (both mean the same thing):

V:

Boxer/flat (both mean the same thing):

 

[Niels]

And because your opinions about aliens and UFO's aren't based on fact, they would be unfounded, as Swift said.

I can be scared of aliens if I want to, that's a valid opinion, you can have an opinion about something unknown.

 

[James2097]

Famine should be shot the second he doesn't know something. This includes any fact about anything in the universe.

I think this is a fair rule, considering he needs to be held to higher expectations, anything less wouldn't be keeping him on his toes. I think Famine is an AI computer like Holly from Red Dwarf, except actually with an IQ of 6000.

Ok Famine now it gets gruelling ... Whats the closest actual planet to the sun?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I can be scared of aliens if I want to, that's a valid opinion, you can have an opinion about something unknown.

you can have that opinion, nobody said you couldnt. but it IS an unfounded opinion. a "founded" opinion, is one based on evidence. evidence, is facts.
You base your belief in aliens on "circumstancial" evidence. that kind of evidence is only acceptable if it meets 2 criteria. 1. it must be overwhelming. 2. there can be no facts that contradict it.
I'm of the opinion that time doesnt exist. I'm entitled to that opinion. but it's an almost ENTIRELY UNfounded opinion. I accept that, and move on with my life.

Thank you, Wolfe. that is both two things, 1, weird. 2,weird
I like to tell people my cars a straight 4. they usually don't realize most are.

 

[Keef]

James, I also think Famine should be held to slightly higher standards than most of us, but he's earned that position. He corrects people when they're wrong and is not afraid to do so, and he presents his own info in a very, err, good way. Back in elementary school I earned that, I guess, by getting good grades, and now in high school kids still ask and I'm like "I don't know" just to avoid telling them. Either that or I erally don't know--I've lost the relative smartness since 4th grade.

Oh, and the only Porsches I see are in my magazines, so I've never read about the older models. I don't remember what convinced me that Porsches were better than Ferraris or whatever, but I decided that the engine hanging out the back just isn't supposed to be, and yet it works gloriously. Porsches are genius machines, you can't deny that.

 

[Swift]

I think knowing the ENTIRE history of a car manufacturer is a stretch. But knowing the current, recent and upcoming models and all included details is very important.

I know a decent amount about the current Porshes, but nothing of the 1970's and older. Does that make me a weak fan?

 

[MugenVTEC]

Earlier today, I spent about an hour argueing with my brother over the "problem" that I seem to think that there are certain things people should know about given topics when people are talking about them, are a fan of them, etc.

Baisicly, the arguement was over if he should know certain things about the Chevrolet Chevelle (such as the fact that the 396 was actually a 402 after 1969) as a Chevrolet fan, and as a Chevelle fan. I was baisicly told I was an ass, and that things like that don't matter.

I dissagreed, saying that knowing certain facts about certain things is helpful in a conversation with other people, etc. To me, you should know atleast SOMETHING interesting about whatever you like, if it be a little-known fact, etc.

So this brings me to the more broad question: Are there certain things that people SHOULD know? Should people have to know facts about the things that they like or enjoy? This also ties into the realm of education, particularly to the question if history is important, etc.

...I'd love to hear your thoughts...

This is where the quote "You should know what you're talking about before talking about it" started.

Back to the topic, the question wouldn't be so hard to me. YES, people should know certain things so they just don't make asses of themselves or attempting to act like he knows more than the others. Also, the knowledge of certain things about the topic that is in talk is very important, because with this, you can really get into a whole deep conversation about it (I don't know if you understood that but for me that sentence had no sence lol). What I mean is, when you don't know nothing about cars, you can't talk about cars. It's like this in many subjects of discussion.

I got to admit that in the world we are living today, it's important to know some basics (or at least the most important) of the things in life. There is so much now in the world, we got to know some basics for sure. People that don't know alot are caught arguing or not talking alot. Just take for example Famine, we all agree he knows a ****load and he can talk about whatever he wants. Maybe it's a gift, but I think he learned alot.

So overall, as I call them, "basics" are important to know.


My opinion

 

[Danoff]

Yes, you're wrong to assume people should know certain things. Everyone's opinion on every subject is just as valid as the next guy's, even if he doesn't know anything about the subject.

Knowledge is meaningless, and since nobody knows everything, everyone is equal in understanding.

 

[Wolfe]

I can be scared of aliens if I want to, that's a valid opinion, you can have an opinion about something unknown.

As LeadSlead#2 said, an unfounded opinion is still an opinion, and that's what I was trying to point out. However, it still isn't based on fact.

Oh, and the only Porsches I see are in my magazines, so I've never read about the older models. I don't remember what convinced me that Porsches were better than Ferraris or whatever, but I decided that the engine hanging out the back just isn't supposed to be, and yet it works gloriously. Porsches are genius machines, you can't deny that.

I think knowing the ENTIRE history of a car manufacturer is a stretch. But knowing the current, recent and upcoming models and all included details is very important.

I know a decent amount about the current Porshes, but nothing of the 1970's and older. Does that make me a weak fan?

You don't need to know about the ENTIRE history of a car manufacturer, but considering the 356 was the only roadcar Porsche sold for the first 15 years or so of business, it's pretty important.

Besides, you guys can just hop over to Wikipedia and spend some time browsing the Porsche section...if you're true fans, you'll enjoy learning more about your favorite manufacturer, right? Or, you could just go buy a copy of Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed. That's where I learned most of what I know about Porsches.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

you gotta learn everything you know somewhere, sometime. It's when you don't seem to care, or when you don't learn. Tell your bro it's a 402 once, and if he likes them, he'll remember. if he forgets, he's stupid, and clearly doesnt even deserve the "fan" title
I just learned that Wolfe forgot to correct me on the new 911's HP. I said 475, but it's 480! HA! gotcha! 0-60 3.2(awesome) 1/4 in 11.4@121 so sad it weighs 35oolbs though... and that its limited to 193...

 

[Swift]

Yes, you're wrong to assume people should know certain things. Everyone's opinion on every subject is just as valid as the next guy's, even if he doesn't know anything about the subject.

Knowledge is meaningless, and since nobody knows everything, everyone is equal in understanding.

This has to be sacasam

 

[Wolfe]

I just learned that Wolfe forgot to correct me on the new 911's HP. I said 475, but it's 480! HA! gotcha!

I also think that if you like such-and-such car, you should know...approximately how much horsepower it has...

...boasting about 475hp...

 

[YSSMAN]

Besides, you guys can just hop over to Wikipedia and spend some time browsing the Porsche section...if you're true fans, you'll enjoy learning more about your favorite manufacturer, right?

^ That is the biggest problem I have with my brother. He doesnt want to learn either. He talks all day about how he is going to start a buisness and build custom cars, but he knows nothing of the history of any of the models. Whenever he talks about a Chevy, its either a 350 or a 454... No specific engine models named, no other engine sizes considered, etc. If he is such a Chevrolet fan, he should be able to know what the different models had available and what the differences between them are... I constantly push him to just browse the Wiki for more information, but he won't do it, because he would be like me.

...A breif discription of he vs me is pretty much a status of opposites. I'm tall and thin, he is short and fat... He likes heavy metal, I like indie/alt rock... He likes hardcore muscle cars, I prefer more balanced models (musclecars arent out of the question however...) etc.

I don't know what his deal is, but he is awfully stubborn for a 17yo who is looking to have a carrer in the automotive field.