Amazon(.com)

[KSaiyu]

You may have heard Stephen Colbert doesn't like Amazon. JK Rowling isn't exactly their biggest fan.

Some people in books have been worried since the mid-ninties:

In 1995, in Chicago, Bezos manned an Amazon booth at the annual conclave of the publishing industry, which is now called BookExpo America. Roger Doeren, from a Kansas City store called Rainy Day Books, was stopped short by Amazon’s sign: “Earth’s Biggest Bookstore.” Approaching Bezos, he asked, “Where is Earth’s biggest bookstore?”

“Cyberspace,” Bezos replied.

“We started a Web site last year. Who are your suppliers?”

“Ingram, and Baker & Taylor.”

“Ours, too. What’s your database?”

“ ‘Books in Print.’ ”

“Ours, too. So what makes you Earth’s biggest?”

“We have the most affiliate links”—a form of online advertising.

Doeren considered this, then asked, “What’s your business model?”

Bezos said that Amazon intended to sell books as a way of gathering data on affluent, educated shoppers. The books would be priced close to cost, in order to increase sales volume. After collecting data on millions of customers, Amazon could figure out how to sell everything else dirt cheap on the Internet. (Amazon says that its original business plan “contemplated only books.”)

Afterward, Doeren told his partner at Rainy Day Books, Vivien Jennings, “I just met the world’s biggest snake-oil salesman. It’s going to be really bad for books.”

What's your take on the "Everything Store"?

 

[TenEightyOne]

What's your take on the "Everything Store"?

Same as the first printing press. Things change. If you prefer I'll ink a vellum for you immediately with the details thereupon

Truth is that its hard to make money by being creative unless you're very very lucky or selling into a very niche market. We generally love the convenience of internet shopping even though we're equally horrified when Benditt and Sons Fishmonger closes down their main-street store after 120 years of trading... but we probably never shopped there because it was too expensive.

If Amazon (or B&N, or eBay) weren't a massively bulked supplier by now then somebody else would be. The market is driven by demand as much as the demand drives the market.

Still, as "a creative", I find it terribly sad in that nostalgic bespoke-fishmongery kind of way.

 

[Famine]

JK Rowling isn't exactly their biggest fan

Then they have my custom without question.

 

[Zenith]

They're probably the most innovative consumer-level seller of the past few decades.

I can't wait for the day where I can wake up, work from home using cloud computing, go out to lunch and order my food through a touchscreen, then come home to my Amazon-drone delivered car part and spend the rest of the night installing it.

No unrequested human contact? Sign me right up.

 

[TenEightyOne]

No unrequested human contact? Sign me right up.

That's the thing... some people love the misery of fighting through traffic in their car, finding somewhere to park it, tramping about in the rain from shop to shop, personally I ****ing hate it.

'People' are so overrated.

 

[Lizard]

I find nothing wrong with it. Order something and get it delivered never having to go into town. I use them regularly.

 

[Danoff]

Amazon has changed all shopping for the better in several ways. For one, if I think of something I want to buy on Tuesday, normally I'd wait until the weekend to purchase it at a store. Instead I buy it online, it arrives on Thursday, and my Saturday is free to spend with my daughter. But that's not even the real transformation.

When I'm at the store I constantly wonder how many stars the product I'm looking at would get. I want to read reviews, I want to see this product taken to task. I feel like I have one arm tied behind my back unless I buy online. That's how Amazon has transformed the way we buy things.

 

[Keef]

What's your take on the "Everything Store"?

Capitalism is a system whereby the best ideas succeed and the worst ones fail. Of course, there is plenty of room for niches which used to be norms. Book stores still exist in various capacities. The strong competition from Amazon drives them to find niches that Amazon doesn't cater to.

 

[35mm]

This:

When I'm at the store I constantly wonder how many stars the product I'm looking at would get. I want to read reviews, I want to see this product taken to task.

Doesn't equal this:

I feel like I have one arm tied behind my back unless I buy online.

What I mean is, nowadays, you can easily grab your smartphone and read your reviews, even inside a store, before buying. Basically, you don't need to buy online to have that covered.

Having said that, I pretty much agree with your view.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I DO occasionally use shops to check stuff I intend to buy online, but I tell the shop I'm doing it and give them the opportunity to match the price. This being Britain they never do, they prefer bankruptcy to modern business apparently.

 

[Danoff]

What I mean is, nowadays, you can easily grab your smartphone and read your reviews, even inside a store, before buying. Basically, you don't need to buy online to have that covered.

Having said that, I pretty much agree with your view.

I've noticed something a bit disturbing recently. I used to get good reception while at the store shopping, but not so much anymore. These days it seems like my signal drops out whenever I'm actually looking at a product (I didn't change my carrier). Call me crazy but I'm starting to think that stores are blocking cell phone signals intentionally to prevent exactly what you describe.

 

[35mm]

Well, it does make sense.

Fortunately, this side of the world, I've never noticed that.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I've noticed something a bit disturbing recently. I used to get good reception while at the store shopping, but not so much anymore. These days it seems like my signal drops out whenever I'm actually
looking at a product (I didn't change my carrier). Call me crazy but I'm starting to think that stores are blocking cell phone signals intentionally to prevent exactly what you describe.

Yes, we think they do (that is my engineering friends and I). It's not unusual where there's a hearing line for there to be some kind of Faraday cage over it, we think stores are exploiting this from the same signal-based problems

Just a conspiracy theory...

 

[Danoff]

Yes, we think they do (that is my engineering friends and I). It's not unusual where there's a hearing line for there to be some kind of Faraday cage over it, we think stores are exploiting this from the same signal-based problems

Just a conspiracy theory...

http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html

 

[TenEightyOne]

Interesting stuff, @Danoff! At $1299 for 20litres you've got to be pretty serious... I wonder how many 20l tubs (pails) would be required to successfully shield a department store? Painting-and-decorating is definitely not one of my areas of expertise

 

[35mm]

Oh, and then there's Kindle. I absolutely love my Kindle.

I'd go as far as saying it's the best device I've ever bought.

 

[BobK]

Currently a rather large percentage of my discretionary income gets funneled to and through Amazon, so at least in my case they're doing something right.

Also largely agree with @DiabolicalMask on the Kindle. Not the best device I ever bought, but it's definitely in the top ten or top five. And my Nook isn't on the list.

 

[Ross]

Personally, I like Amazon a lot. They have everything you could ever want or need and usually at a good price. Their delivery is good too. I usually get items within 2-3 days of ordering when I go for the free delivery option. And as @Zenith said, there is no human interaction involved which makes everything simpler.

 

[Sprite]

I love Amazon as they make it easy to spend money on things I didn't realise I didn't need. However my local record store showed me that some records they were putting up for pre-order were cheaper than he could buy in at cost, so really stopping him from being able to offer a good and competitive price.

 

[Joel]

My only issue with Amazon is that sometimes I follow a link on a forum to a product on the US site and it's not available in Canada. Otherwise it's probably the best online shopping experience there is (save for Steam I guess which isn't really a true comparable), and simplifies things. Instead of going to a brick and mortar store and being harassed by salesmen with 3 year warranties for 18 month old technology, I can do my research at home and order the exact model with the features I want, and usually for a lower price.

When I'm at the store I constantly wonder how many stars the product I'm looking at would get. I want to read reviews, I want to see this product taken to task. I feel like I have one arm tied behind my back unless I buy online. That's how Amazon has transformed the way we buy things.

I'm the same way, I hardly ever go into stores and ask the employees/sales guys questions unless I've already done tons of research beforehand. It's just that no matter how good the selection is at a brick and mortar store, it can never beat the selection you'd get online. No matter how knowledgeable a sales guy is, he can't beat the collective knowledge of what's online in most cases, nor can he be as objective as a third party review could be.

The arm tied behind your back is the exact feeling I get. I feel like the internet and online retailers have given the consumer much more power to make informed decisions on what exactly they want, and going into a brick and mortar store makes you feel so much less in control of your purchase unless you've done the research beforehand. Online shopping makes me feel like I have the upper hand as the customer, I can do research infinitely until I'm satisfied with my decision, and then price match or shop around for the best website all without leaving my house.

I don't know how people can just walk into Best Buy and get a TV or a laptop without doing the research, or just take the word of salesmen. It would drive me nuts to buy something I'll use regularly without knowing it's the best option, or to go home and find out that the updated model comes out in 2 weeks.

 

[FoolKiller]

When I'm at the store I constantly wonder how many stars the product I'm looking at would get. I want to read reviews, I want to see this product taken to task. I feel like I have one arm tied behind my back unless I buy online. That's how Amazon has transformed the way we buy things.

Untie that arm. Get the Amazon App and use the barcode scanner.

Cant get a signal? Type in the product name and walk out the door, check the price, and then come back in and ask if they can beat the price.


Someone mentioned Kindle. Yes. It is on any smart device and syncs up between devices.

On that same note: Audible is equally awesome. That guy may have thought it would be bad for books, but between Audible and Kindle I have bought more new books than ever. I always hit the used book stores first. That guy has a choice; less profit or no profit. Amazon has their own publishing division now to support Kindle/Audible and offer stuff at dirt cheap prices without cutting into their margins.


The other thing I have seen it do is force other online retailers to find a way to make their price and shipping cheaper than products on Amazon with free shipping. I need certain specialty products for my cooking and stores that specialize in those things have found ways to under cut Amazon's price and keep shipping low enough so the total is still cheaper than with Amazon Prime.

Amazon took the price war online. Stores are just for me to in-store pickup items I don't trust the postal service to ship.

 

[KSaiyu]

On that same note: Audible is equally awesome. That guy may have thought it would be bad for books, but between Audible and Kindle I have bought more new books than ever. I always hit the used book stores first. That guy has a choice; less profit or no profit. Amazon has their own publishing division now to support Kindle/Audible and offer stuff at dirt cheap prices without cutting into their margins.

I wonder then, should they become a monopoly would Amazon resemble a Youtube for authors, or a mega X-Factor/American Idol?

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Most of the items I buy online are Amazon OR Ebay. The trick with Amazon is trying to find which products are directly from Amazon. Ebay still seems to be a little more user friendly IMO. I also usually find better deals on ebay.

 

[FoolKiller]

I wonder then, should they become a monopoly would Amazon resemble a Youtube for authors, or a mega X-Factor/American Idol?

I don't see that happening for a decade or two, if ever. Even if digital takes over completely they have competition in Nook and iBooks (does Google do books?). Add to that the publishing industry has begun cutting better deals for authors and locking in book deals that are 7-10 books. Right now Kindle and Audible still rely on the publishing industry for their most profitable business. The key to Kindle's publishing is that it only requires their free software and a minor agreement for an author to put their book out there.

It is an independent author's dream...and dream crusher. Without the filter of an editor they open their work up to a public review section. Every guy with a manuscript can get it out there, but unless they are really good, that's it for their writing career. And if they are really good, a publisher will offer them a lot of money as an advance. That advance is the think that Amazon doesn't do right now. To an independent author thousands or millions whether your book sells or not is a great deal.

Amazon will have to outdo the way the publishing industry works in order to become a monopoly, but that would require them to have their own publishing company solely focused on doing that, but that will ruin their current appeal and risk their success.

 

[BobK]

does Google do books?

They do. However my impression is that they're not really trying very hard. Last time I checked (admittedly a while ago) they weren't price-competitive with Barnes & Noble, much less Amazon.

However this could change overnight should Google decide they wanted to focus on this area.

As for Amazon becoming a monopoly, I can't really see that happening either. I can easily see them in a position similar to the one Microsoft was in for a decade or so (in their respective businesses of course; not saying Amazon is on the verge of being an OS powerhouse).

 

[Omnis]

I remember being in B&N with my cousin, and I saw they were advertising their card. You had to pay to sign up to get free shipping for online things and slightly discounted rates both online and in-store.

We were in line about to buy some books, but I was struggling with whether I should just get them there or save some money with Amazon. Instead, I made a big John Galt speech to my cousin about how I couldn't believe they wanted you to pay to be able to get books at a price that was still more expensive than what you could get on amazon. That you could pay the equivalent for next-day shipping, and still save money because you don't have to pay any taxes.

I still haven't forgotten his response. "Now that you're done making me feel like an idiot, do you want to use my card?"

 

[FoolKiller]

You know, the sad thing is that even though bookstores still stand, and there is a nice local one with a few old collectors items, I still buy even my physical books online at thriftbooks.com. I not only buy used when I can, but online.


But that does bring up another hindrance to an Amazon retail monopoly: used books. Buy a Kindle book and you pay cover price with a discount. Physical copies are slightly more expensive. None of them are picking up a spine-cracked, wrinkled paperback of a popular book for $1.99-3.99. And as long as people read paper books this market will exist, and for decades beyond.

 

[Rustyhole]

So here's a scenario to think about...

A book I wish to buy costs say $20. I go home and look online and find it for $12 shipped to my door. Now, I could support the store and buy it there or I could buy online and save a few $. But if I decide to buy at the store and they tell me they have to order it from the supplier... what's to stop them from ordering online and pocketing the difference?

 

[Zenith]

So here's a scenario to think about...

A book I wish to buy costs say $20. I go home and look online and find it for $12 shipped to my door. Now, I could support the store and buy it there or I could buy online and save a few $. But if I decide to buy at the store and they tell me they have to order it from the supplier... what's to stop them from ordering online and pocketing the difference?

Nothing. You wanted to support them and that's what you did.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So here's a scenario to think about...

A book I wish to buy costs say $20. I go home and look online and find it for $12 shipped to my door. Now, I could support the store and buy it there or I could buy online and save a few $. But if I decide to buy at the store and they tell me they have to order it from the supplier... what's to stop them from ordering online and pocketing the difference?

They're not going to order it at the same price they're selling it to you at (unless you're a very good customer and they really want to keep some long-term business) so what's the difference?

As @Zenith said, it's about supporting them if you want to. By showing that support to local (or simply physical) businesses you generally accept that they're the middleman between you and a bulk supplier.