American Sports Cars?

[Ryan2]

hey everyone, i hope you can help me in this project for school...

i have to write a report on the past, present, and future of american sports cars....do and of you have some good websites with good info about any american sports cars (viper, vette, chrysler 300m, shelby cobra) if you know of any more american sports cars tell me

thanks,

:bmw: bimmerkid :bmw:

 

[sn00pie]

Just do what I always do: make up a 5 page story, I doubt your teacher knows even **** about "the history of american sportscars".

 

[Ryan2]

no, he would know a little bit about them, he has a vette

 

[Sertsa]

Well, you can always make him really happy by stating that the Vette is about the only true full-production sports car. I think the Viper and Mustang are more muscle cars than sports cars. But that's a whole big debate on its own.

Of course, there are a whole lot of American muscle cars. You might want to make the difference clear.

Anyway, there should be a lot of car-specific sites, maybe the History channel's site has some stuff. Their Automobiles show is great.

You might want to find a unique angle, too, and narrow your focus, like the competition between US and Europe to develop sports cars in the 50s and 60s. How that has continued (or not), and what's going to happen.

Or maybe even how Ford and Shelby challenged Ferrari and eventually beat ol' Enzo. Then see what happened after that.

As for some other American sports cars, there's the Ford GT40, and Shelby's other cars.

 

[Talentless]

I think it is okay to include 4 seaters as sports cars, but they must be originally have been marketed as a high performance car. I would include the mustan, viper, corvette camaro/firebird and such, though the early mustangs were not performance cars from what i understand.

the 300M. no no no no. why, i just don't like it.

some things i know

the mustang was originally built using the ford falcon chassis

supposedly mustang was originally named after the p51 but the association with a type of horse stuck, i think.

there was a 2 seat mustan show car that predated the introduction of the car.

the first production mustang was a 64 1/2 model

the mustang sold around 400,000 copies in it's furst 1-3 years, or something

the major shelby cobras are the gt350, gt350 r, gt500 and gt500kr for king of the road. i believe the non kr model is said to be better.

there have also been mach mustangs and boss mustangs, mach 1 boss 302. i think the late larry shinoda was involved with one or both of these models. there were at least other machs, not sure about boss 302s

larry shinoda was behind the 63 corvette stingray

there are two ways of spelling stingray. stingray and sting ray, depends on the model, don't know which goes where.

the first corvette of '53 used the blue flame 6 engine

there was an anniversary edition of the corvette in 93 or 95 that was painted in a special ruby red or burgandy, i think burgandy, paint to mark it's 40th anniversary

the zr1 is something i know little about, but i think it was introduced in 1988 or 89

during parts of the 80s mustangs out performed f bodies

the camaro was at one time going to be possibly called the panther.

the name cougar may have a connection with the fbodies?

in 73 the trans am sd 455 was one of the few true performance cars available

in 89, using a buick turbo v6, the 20th ann. T/A was faster than the corvette. indeed, the trans am even out did the vette during some years in the 70s

SS stands for super sport: camaro

rs stands for rally sport: camaro

h.o. stands for high output: firebird

firebirds came in the esprit, formula and trans am, maybe others.

the trans am was introduced in 1969

the 73 sd 455 did mid 13s and 0-60 times under 6 seconds

the gran sport corvette was introduced in 1996

reeves callaway has been building special cars based on the vette and modifying vettes for years, one special vette being the near 255 mph sledgehammer

john lingenfelter is also a famous tuner

i'll continue shortly

 

[Talentless]

research briggs cunningham

the viper was a show car in 1989 and only sold as a convertible until the gts was introduced in, i think, 1996

vipers had less horsepower than the acr and gts models did

carrol shelby is connected with the viper.

shelby was also going to do a special oldsmobile, but i don't think it pulled through

the series one has pretty much been a failure from what i can tell

the corvette stingray of 68, or later, got its look from an inspiration bill mitchell, or harly earl, on of them (i think one was also dead at the time) got while fishing or doing something regarding fish. a mako shark was the inspiration

slp stands for street legal performance.

the early firehawks were expensive, somewhere around 30 or 40 thousand dollars and had 350 horsepower.

the 91-92 firebirds got there look from the pontiac banshee show car. that show car was in on or more of the back to the future movies

the smokey and the bandit movies helped firebird sales in the late 70s

a famous camaro is the iroc-z, named after the international race of champions in which camaros raced.

the trans am has been the car which iroc has been running for several years

*please research all i state to confirm, correct or debunk it.

the engine in the gran sport corvette was called the LT1, not sure about earlier vettes.

that's enough

others can help

 

[sn00pie]

Originally posted by Bimmerkid44
no, he would know a little bit about them, he has a vette

Find a new teacher.

 

[Talentless]

don't be fooled by so-called sports cars which are nothing more than econoboxes with spoilers.

 

[Talentless]

http://www.geocities.com/pattonr1_04011/Sportscars.html

 

[Talentless]

oh, and i reiterate that the current chrysler letter car is no sports car.

 

[Sertsa]

Talentless: That's impressive. You have all that in your head? I'm astounded.

Anyway, I thought I'd add a couple other American sports car manufacturers, if you want to include some of the very small niche makers, Panoz and Saleen.

Research this before you use it, but I think Panoz was started with the fortunes made by the nicotine patch. In addition to the race car in GT3, they make a couple of roadsters. At least one uses a lot of Ford parts.

 

[Talentless]

back in 96 or 97 panoz made a roadster called the aiv. it was open-wheeled and had a resemblence to cars like the super 7. i'm not sure if all super sevens or sevens are caterhams or not. heck i'm not sure if caterham is US or UK

ps. ty sertsa.

sometimes i remember small things

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by Talentless
back in 96 or 97 panoz made a roadster called the aiv. it was open-wheeled and had a resemblence to cars like the super 7. i'm not sure if all super sevens or sevens are caterhams or not. heck i'm not sure if caterham is US or UK

It's UK, and not all Seven's are Caterham. The early ones were Lotus, then Lotus/Caterham, then just Caterham, after Chapman lost interest. (Perhaps the Mini drew more attention....) FYI, you can buy a Caterham -- in kit or pre-fab form -- for import to the US. They're not road legal here, but they make great track cars, and are an excellent learning experience in kit form (primarily in just how few proper tools you really have).

Just to be boring: http://www.infinityweb.freeserve.co.uk/history.htm

 

[1X83Z]

Hey, hey, hey! Don't be so hard on the 300M! No, the 300M isn't a sports car, but the 300A was the first American muscle car! Check the muscle car club of America!

 

[Talentless]

I am not trying to diss the original Chrysler letter cars. I just think the 300M is ugly and not a sports car.

 

[Rx7_Rob]

If your doing a report on American Sports Cars, the GT40 was British Built, so I don't think that would classify as an American Sports Car.

 

[1X83Z]

Lol, yeah, Talentless, the 300M's ugly. I'd agree with that in a sec--in fact, I'll go one higher: Every car Chrysler makes right now is ugly. PT Cruiser, Prowler, (not so much T&C or Voyager)...but the Crossfire should help that out.

 

[Talentless]

 

[1X83Z]

Hey!!! What do you have to bring that on here for? I'm tryin' to eat!

 

[Talentless]

mwuhahahaha

and i've seen some call it beautiful. like i said, if one calls the trans am ugly and that pretty, they are messed up. doesn't mean that anyone should like or dislike the trans am, but if one disses it and praise the car with the "twin peaks" headlights (300m), i urge them to seek help

 

[jag_man_v12]

did Americans acutully make a sports car .. I believe the britsh made the only true sports cars... they were simple not that much faster than normal cars.. they were totaly impractical.. they had only the basic needs...a soft top that leeked when it rained
just look at cars like
MG's
Truimphs
Lotus 7's
Morgans
AC
Jaguar E type
Panter
Sunbeam Alpine

these are sports cars in the true tradition

 

[1X83Z]

lol, that's a pretty strict definition of "sports car." I would go as far as considering the Acura CL / Honda Accord Coupe (current models, not '89 and '95) sports cars. And every Celica ever made. And, what would YOU call the Corvette if not a sports car? The Z06 or ZR-1 or Gran Sport, not the '63.

 

[jag_man_v12]

Originally posted by M5Power
lol, that's a pretty strict definition of "sports car." I would go as far as considering the Acura CL / Honda Accord Coupe (current models, not '89 and '95) sports cars. And every Celica ever made. And, what would YOU call the Corvette if not a sports car? The Z06 or ZR-1 or Gran Sport, not the '63.

first cars like the honda civic and accord are family cars nothing more thats what they were disigned for and as for corvette's etc muslce cars usually the term given to cars with high proformace V8 engines
the list i gave you is what any motoring writer would list as the classic sports cars just watch a few documenties and see what they say then you will under stand
the only close to sports car tradition today are cars like MGTF, Lotus Elise, Mazda MX5 and possiable a few others

 

[1X83Z]

Muscle cars?! This is 2002! No 'muscle car' will ever have airbags. Yeah, the Miata HAS to be called a sports car. That's a must. NECESSARY.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by jag_man_v12


first cars like the honda civic and accord are family cars nothing more thats what they were disigned for and as for corvette's etc muslce cars usually the term given to cars with high proformace V8 engines
the list i gave you is what any motoring writer would list as the classic sports cars just watch a few documenties and see what they say then you will under stand
the only close to sports car tradition today are cars like MGTF, Lotus Elise, Mazda MX5 and possiable a few others

I think the problem people have with the definition of a "sports car" is the constant use of it in marketing. A 2.0L turbo AWD drive sedan does not make the WRX a sports car. "Sport sedan" is better, "sporty car" more likely. I should know; I drive one every day. IMO, it's not so much the power to weight ratio that makes it sporty, but rather the handling and joy to drive (on a clear day, at least). Thus, I would sooner consider a Clio Williams a "sports car" than the dead-helmed-but-faster Civic Si.

I do think that the basic idea of "sports car" is rather limited, but true: front engine, rear drive, two seats, and a crappy roof (if at all). TVR's fall under this catagory (if only their lids leaked more). I'm tempted to include the likes of Ferrari and Porsche, but that may be more "sports" and less "car". Perhaps under a broader definition..."sweet, fast, nice car".

And yes, the Brits seemed to be among the top of the heap when it came to true sports cars...leaky tops and all.

 

[jag_man_v12]

Originally posted by Hooligan


I think the problem people have with the definition of a "sports car" is the constant use of it in marketing. A 2.0L turbo AWD drive sedan does not make the WRX a sports car. "Sport sedan" is better, "sporty car" more likely. I should know; I drive one every day. IMO, it's not so much the power to weight ratio that makes it sporty, but rather the handling and joy to drive (on a clear day, at least). Thus, I would sooner consider a Clio Williams a "sports car" than the dead-helmed-but-faster Civic Si.

I do think that the basic idea of "sports car" is rather limited, but true: front engine, rear drive, two seats, and a crappy roof (if at all). TVR's fall under this catagory (if only their lids leaked more). I'm tempted to include the likes of Ferrari and Porsche, but that may be more "sports" and less "car". Perhaps under a broader definition..."sweet, fast, nice car".

And yes, the Brits seemed to be among the top of the heap when it came to true sports cars...leaky tops and all.

first i would like to say I agree with a lot t of what your are saying but cars Ferrari, Porsche,Lamborghini etc are more supercars and the TVR is almost tilting towards that side the idea of having your face just about riped off with the top top cos off the sheer performace off is not really an idea of fun which is what a sports car is all about...
eg drive with the top down when its pouring with rain with a thick coat on to keep warm and using your hand to wash the water face out of your eyes and ice on your face from the sheer cold winds this is what owning a true sports car is all about

over here every year they have a all British day car show and its in the middle of winter and it all ways rains, there is a guy who brings his old 1930's Supercharged Bentley to the event he has the thickest coat on a hat and drives it with the top down his comment is it looks yuck with the roof on and the faster you go the less chance the rain has at getting you wet .. this is sports car driving

 

[1X83Z]

The Hummer is also usually considered a supercar--remember, supercars do not only exist because of PREFORMANCE. It's exclusivity, and the "#1" in their own field. And the Hummer is obviously number one as far as SUV's. And, it's exclusive.

My BMW M5 would also be a sports car, right? And the M3? How could you not say that the E55, S6 (RS4 and RS6, too), and M5/M3 aren't sports cars? Well, you can't.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
My BMW M5 would also be a sports car, right? And the M3? How could you not say that the E55, S6 (RS4 and RS6, too), and M5/M3 aren't sports cars? Well, you can't.

Yes, you can. Within motorsports there is a traditional definition of "sports car". The cars you listed are "sports sedans" or even "sports wagons". They're fun (well, at least they're fast), expensive, and well made, but not quite all there, especially in terms of the reward for your effort. If you can't feel what the car is doing and how it is responding, there isn't a whole lot of joy to be had other than a drag race.

Think of a Jaguar E-Type. Better yet, picture a MX-5/Miata. It's not the specific output, it's not the price, it's not the quality. It's the core features that define what a sports car is. The Z3 might have fit if they were actually fun to drive, but otherwise nothing from BMW meets that definition. But yes, a supercar would most likely be defined in terms of its exclusivity, being derived primarily from its astronomical price.

And to comment on my own earlier post: I didn't mean that Porsche et. al. were sports cars, simply that a broader definition -- "sweet, nice, fast car" -- would be a better fit for them. Some of TVR's vehicles (Tamora) would fit as true sports cars, but the Tuscan R and Speed12 is a bit out there. Peter Wheeler is pushing for this "exclusivity of name" for all sports cars, but he should tame his own stable first. Still, the E-Type was a road-burner in its time. Perhaps the Tuscan belongs after all?

I would consider only the Viper (and the soon-to-be Solstice) as an American sports car.

 

[1X83Z]

The Viper is a super-car!! The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Corvette...these are sports cars. Dude, "sports cars" can compete against each other. No way a Miata's ever gonna compete against a Viper with an 8.0-liter engine.

Everyone's definition of sports car is different, I guess.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
Everyone's definition of sports car is different, I guess.

That's the problem here. There's the traditional definition, and there's the marketing definition. The car companies would have you believe that an extra 10HP or some vague bodystyling qualifies as having "sport". You're comparing advertising to tradition. Both are opinions, but only one is right.

The Viper is not a supercar. It's price is high, but not stratospheric. However, a Miata would leave it for dead on an autocross track. Both quite closely fit the traditional spec:

front engine
rear wheel drive
two seats
convertible
reasonably affordable
fast, fun, handles well
not high on luxury

The Mustang SVT Cobra R goes 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. If you want your automotive enjoyment to last, take a Golf Mk1 out for a spin in the hills...anywhere. Then return on that route in the Mustang. The Mustang will not be quite as worthwhile. Both are fun, a key feature of what a sports car is, but neither are truly sports cars.

Americans tend to think that straight-line performance is all that matters (hence the popularity of NASCAR), yet 99% of all cars do not fit the bill. Sorry.