Anti-War Tax Protestors

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288128,00.html
NEW HAVEN, Conn. — When the United States invaded Iraq more than four years ago, war opponent David Gross asked his bosses for a radical pay cut, enough so he wouldn't have to pay taxes to support the war.

"I was having a hard time looking at myself in the mirror," Gross said. "I knew the bombs falling were in part paid with my tax dollars. I had to actually do something concrete to remove my complicity."

The San Francisco technical writer was making close to $100,000 a year. He didn't know exactly how big of a pay cut he would need to fall below the federal tax threshold, but later figured out he would have to make less than minimum wage.

In any event, his employer turned him down and he quit. Gross, 38, now works on a contract basis, and last year he refused to pay self-employment taxes.

War tax resistance, popularized by Henry David Thoreau in the 19th century and by singer Joan Baez and others during the Vietnam War, is gaining renewed interest among peace activists upset over the Iraq war.

"Clearly this year we definitely had more people calling, sending e-mails about how they decided to start resisting," said Ruth Benn, coordinator of the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee in New York.

Based on the committee's mailing list and reports from numerous groups it works with around the country, Benn estimates 8,000 to 10,000 Americans refuse to pay some or all of their federal taxes over war objections. Internal Revenue Service officials say they don't have figures for that specific category, but earlier this year reported an overall noncompliance rate of 16.3 percent and estimated the annual tax gap at about $345 billion.

Peace activists are considering a mass tax resistance campaign next April to step up pressure to end the war in Iraq, Benn said.

Many tax protesters say they redirect the money they withhold to charities. Some, like Joanne Sheehan of Norwich, keep their income below taxable levels.

"I don't see the point of working for peace and paying for war," Sheehan said.

Gross said he now manages to live on about $15,000 per year by carefully tracking his spending.

He acknowledged the tax resistance movement is too small to stop the war.

"But I think what we're doing is showing the way for people in the anti-war movement," Gross said. "I can look myself in the mirror and say at least I'm not supporting it, at least I'm not part of the machine."

The IRS said that while taxpayers have a right to express their opinions, they still have an obligation to pay their taxes. Tax resisters place an undue burden on taxpayers who pay their fair share of taxes, IRS spokeswoman Dianne Besunder said.

John Ubaldi, spokesman for Move America Forward, which supports the military and the war on terror, said the government would not be able to function if everyone opposed to a program stopped paying taxes.

"They're showing the terrorists that America is not committed," Ubaldi said.

The IRS considers it a frivolous argument when a taxpayer cites disagreement with the government's use of tax money as the reason for not paying taxes.

A new federal law increases the penalty for frivolous tax returns from $500 to $5,000. The IRS says it investigates promoters of frivolous arguments and refers cases to the Department of Justice for criminal prosecution.

Unlike the days when Thoreau was sent to prison in a tax protest against the Mexican-American War, modern war tax protesters rarely go to prison, according to tax resisters. The IRS may take their money from wages and bank accounts - with penalties and interest - after sending a series of letters.

"They're very polite, which makes it a little boring," said Rosa Packard of Greenwich, a longtime anti-war tax protester.

But Randy Kehler, who has refused to pay federal income taxes since 1976 to protest U.S. military policy, was evicted with his wife from their home in Colrain, Mass., in 1989 for nonpayment of more than $45,000 in taxes, interest and penalties. Kehler was also jailed for nearly three months for contempt of court.

Their tax fight was the subject of a 1997 documentary called "An Act of Conscience," narrated by actor Martin Sheen.

War protesters have been pushing for a law called the Religious Freedom Peace Tax Fund that would allow designated conscientious objectors to have their income, estate, or gift taxes used for nonmilitary purposes. After years of efforts, they hope a congressional hearing will be held on the proposal next year.

"People fear the IRS more than they fear God," said Alan Gamble, executive director of the National Campaign for a Peace Tax Fund. "They're paying under a tremendous burden."
So, let me get this straight. These people are protesting something they disagree with by either working below a taxable wage, allowing them to get my tax money from welfare programs, or by not paying taxes, and using my tax money to pay for their prosecution? I support people's right to protest a war, but this is just stupid.

I wonder if they would support me not paying taxes for social programs and having that money diverted to the military spending, which I do support? Somehow, I doubt it.

If this Religious Freedom Tax Fund thing goes through I will demand I be allowed to divert my social programs taxes. If they make this a truly equal and fair act all their special welfare programs will collapse because all those that pay higher taxes to support those programs would divert them to something else.

It would be interesting to see which programs turned out to just be a politician's special interest and not his constituents'.
 
Why is government getting involved in such things? The reason we have the federal gov't is to budget, yet now the people are budgeting...

United my ass.
 
This is ridiculous. But at least it's peaceful. They probably feel like the people in the civil rights movement that did the sit ins. Man, what a bunch of chumps
 
Honestly I sympathize a bit. My tax dollars get used for lots of things I don't support. Much of what I talk about here is why the government shouldn't be involved in those things. Unfortunately national security is one of those areas where we need government - and this is part of the reason why it's unfortunate.
 
Honestly I sympathize a bit. My tax dollars get used for lots of things I don't support. Much of what I talk about here is why the government shouldn't be involved in those things. Unfortunately national security is one of those areas where we need government - and this is part of the reason why it's unfortunate.

Yeah, the country has become quite backwards, hasn't it?

I love my country to death, but god do i hate most of the people who live in it.

Do you ever think that your attitude would change if you and everyone with the same feelings would stop "hating" and start loving? I know you're "just saying" that, but this is the very attitude that makes the people "suck" in the first place. You know only a handful of us living in America, and even if you knew everybody in your entire house, city, and state well enough to hate them, you'd still not know of enough to hate the people of The United States as a whole. In other words, you're not giving yourself or anyone else a chance if you feel that way. You make your hate become a self-fulfilling prophecy that may spread to others.

Make the change. Nobody hates you.
 
Personally, I like knowing that my tax dollars are buying DU rounds that blow up giant robots and enemy tanks.

They should start a program where you get to put your name on bullets or bombs just for paying your taxes...

Still, things like this are silly. I'm not going to refuse to pay my taxes because illegal immigrants use that money to have children in this country, because that would just be stupid. I mean, every person in this country doesn't like something that their tax dollars are spent on, so if we all stopped paying like these people, whats the point?

Sure, the Liberals are for increasing tax rates, but when the money pays for something other than universal heath care or flowers, or that fancy rainbow making machine that they all wanted, they won't pay a cent.
 
Lol, yeah. Imagine a Red Bull bomb or one with the collage of faces on it.
 
Honestly I sympathize a bit. My tax dollars get used for lots of things I don't support.
Which is why I don't think these people realize just how stupid their little act would be. It would get challenged and either thrown out or everyone would have the option to move their tax dollars where they want it. I get a feeling that these people would be the same ones that think welfare programs shoudl have more money and talk about teh rich running everything. If they think the rich run the country now, wait until they can decide where they want their tax money to go. Five percent of the population would control everything. Sudden;y the minority would rule the vast majority.

I think this is a clear sign that these people are so anti-war (and possibly anti-Bush) that they have angered themselves stupid. They can't see that their big plan to stop the war would actually hurt their causes more than help them. Maybe if the one guy hadn't cut his income by nearly 90% he would have an effect, but instead he will cause no change because he no longer pays taxes.

Lol, yeah. Imagine a Red Bull bomb or one with the collage of faces on it.
This explosion brought to you by: Red Bull. It gives you wings! and All State, you're in good hands with All State. :lol:
 
They should start a program where you get to put your name on bullets or bombs just for paying your taxes...

You'll feel just great when 'your' bullet is the one that gets used in a friendly fire incident or 'your' bomb is the one that accidentally kills a bunch of children.
 
You'll feel just great when 'your' bullet is the one that gets used in a friendly fire incident or 'your' bomb is the one that accidentally kills a bunch of children.

At least the Disney bomb (complete with mouse-ears) would be the happiest friendly fire on earth.

But, yes, that would be awful.
 
Do you ever think that your attitude would change if you and everyone with the same feelings would stop "hating" and start loving? I know you're "just saying" that, but this is the very attitude that makes the people "suck" in the first place. You know only a handful of us living in America, and even if you knew everybody in your entire house, city, and state well enough to hate them, you'd still not know of enough to hate the people of The United States as a whole. In other words, you're not giving yourself or anyone else a chance if you feel that way. You make your hate become a self-fulfilling prophecy that may spread to others.

Make the change. Nobody hates you.

I more or less meant it as the people who are anti-war, anti-government, anti-bush, and pretty much anti-America by that point. Yes you can have your opinions, and a lot of the things i mentioned are flawed, but at least show some damn support for your country. Who's going to pay for our protection if everybody stopped paying for war taxes. Instead of sending a soldier with the proper protection, sorry, we can't afford it, heres a camo jacket and a pistol, go wild.

Our ancestors didn't bust their ass for the America we have today. My grandfather didn't suffer and live with shrapnel in his back so that some dirty hippy can protest the military.
 
Who's going to pay for our protection if everybody stopped paying for war taxes.
I don't think they realize that military spending is more than just war spending. It is also Guard spending and security spending and a dozen other things.

My grandfather didn't suffer and live with shrapnel in his back so that some dirty hippy can protest the military.
That might not have been his desire, but that was a right he was protecting, so technically, yeah he did.

That is why, even though I disgaree, I say let them protest and ramble on like foaming-mouthed idiots. It is their right and they attack the very institutions that protect those rights. They just don't realize that if they had their way future protests could look something like this:
tiananmen-square-tanks.jpg
 
I more or less meant it as the people who are anti-war, anti-government, anti-bush, and pretty much anti-America by that point. Yes you can have your opinions, and a lot of the things i mentioned are flawed, but at least show some damn support for your country. Who's going to pay for our protection if everybody stopped paying for war taxes. Instead of sending a soldier with the proper protection, sorry, we can't afford it, heres a camo jacket and a pistol, go wild.

Our ancestors didn't bust their ass for the America we have today. My grandfather didn't suffer and live with shrapnel in his back so that some dirty hippy can protest the military.

Yeah, that's fine. I was just attacking the attitude. I'm used to it from people complaining after sucking off of the system.

edit: Ah, Tienanmen Square. Good Point. Actually, I was born right at the moment where the tank first backed up.
 
You don't get to pick what your taxes go for. If you don't like how they're being used, keep it in mind at the next election. There is no a la carte menu for government spending that you'd like to support.

This is like retired couples not wanting to pay for schools or soccer fields. Fine, I don't want to pay for the senior center.
 
You don't get to pick what your taxes go for. If you don't like how they're being used, keep it in mind at the next election. There is no a la carte menu for government spending that you'd like to support.

This is like retired couples not wanting to pay for schools or soccer fields. Fine, I don't want to pay for the senior center.
You mean our votes count. You being from Florida you should remember the 2000 elections. As far as the retired couples not wanting to pay for schools is like saying people with children shouldn't pay for schools Oh 💡 wait :dunce: they dont they get a big tax break for having kids when they should have to pay at least a separate "education tax"
 
You mean our votes count. You being from Florida you should remember the 2000 elections. As far as the retired couples not wanting to pay for schools is like saying people with children shouldn't pay for schools Oh 💡 wait :dunce: they dont they get a big tax break for having kids when they should have to pay at least a separate "education tax"

Huh?

Your vote DOES count. The closeness of the 2000 returns in Florida demonstrates that very clearly. As for remembering the election, I distinctly remember Tom Brokaw calling a projection while I was in my car on the way to the poll. Somebody at NBC apparently didn't check their time zone map very well, as the panhandle west of the Appalachicola River is on Central time, not Eastern, and our polls were still open. Projecting a winner is absolutely not allowed while polls are open.

I think you're confusing 2 different taxing bodies. Parents get a tax break for kids by getting a deduction on their federal income tax, which has NOTHING to do with local school taxes. Those usually come from property taxes in the districts.

My point about retired people is from an attempt in Arizona some years ago by a retired man to exempt himself from that portion of his property taxes that went to schools. He'd moved there from somewhere to retire, and felt he had no responsibility to contribute to the education of other people's children.

That's the same mentality as these protesters saying they don't want to pay any tax towards the war effort.

What a governing body does with tax revenue is up to elected officials to decide. There is no selection of who pays for which. "My house has never burned or been robbed, so I feel no need to contribute to the fire or police departments, please lower my tax accordingly." How stupid is that? And how is it different from what these "protesters" are doing?

Communities need roads, utilities, schools, police, fire protection, medical service, leisure facilities, and so on. Everybody contributes to the kitty that pays for all that, and you don't get to pick what's "right" or "wrong" about it. If you don't like how it's done, vote the bastards out next election.
 
You'll feel just great when 'your' bullet is the one that gets used in a friendly fire incident or 'your' bomb is the one that accidentally kills a bunch of children.

No, nobody wants that, but I still think its a neat idea. That being said, we often write messages on our bombs (well, those of us in the US), something that dates back quite a long time.
 
I more or less meant it as the people who are anti-war, anti-government, anti-bush, and pretty much anti-America by that point. Yes you can have your opinions, and a lot of the things i mentioned are flawed, but at least show some damn support for your country.
I honestly can't believe how being anti-war (or anti-Bush, for that matter) is anti-American, nor do I understand how being anti-war is not showing support for your country; unless I'm confusing your statement's message. No, I don't agree with this rally, because even in theory it presents its flaws as all military spending is not fighting wars. But I can't see how their message alone is hurting America, even if their means to relay that message is.
 
I honestly can't believe how being anti-war (or anti-Bush, for that matter) is anti-American, nor do I understand how being anti-war is not showing support for your country; unless I'm confusing your statement's message. No, I don't agree with this rally, because even in theory it presents its flaws as all military spending is not fighting wars. But I can't see how their message alone is hurting America, even if their means to relay that message is.

There's a difference between wanting to change things and not wanting to participate in anything. I think the neo-cons have warped the former into being "un-american" in order to get people to follow their agendas. It is, in fact, the most patriotic who are most of the time most eager to right big government and starve for change. The complete disregard for what happens in our country and the desire to be somewhere else is the real anti-american attitude.
 
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