Anybody worried about the powertrain swaps in FM4?
- Thread starter GTP_Plato
- 49 comments
- 5,887 views
- 5,762
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
II-zOoLoGy-II
(Banned)
- 2,713
- F YOU
With the new tire model from Pirelli and re-worked physics I don't think you have anything to worry about.
- 1,325
- Special_1
What worried me a bit was Alex's post on FM.Net, he had nothing but praise for the 240sx saying that there were endless options for car customization and Drive swaps. Here's hoping they don't give it ridiculous specs, as I don't want another Porsche 550 wannabe all over the leader boards, not to mention that this was probably the most requested car for FM3.
- 4,038
- United States
Put all the swaps in that you want, it won't affect me in the least. They are optional, and we have custom lobbies.
- 1,325
- Special_1
Agreed that in lobbies we will have the option to change the drive types of the cars, but I am one of those dedicated hot lappers, don't get me wrong I also do a lot of racing, but the swaps could come back to haunt the leader boards by ruining them with none other than AWD cars, this is my main concern and think for other hot lappers it would be a concern for them to 👍
- 4,038
- United States
Even then, it still doesn't matter, because AWD is noted. Your position on the leaderboard with other NON AWD is all that matters. It's kinda like, not having to worry about the people that used rewind, abs, stab, traction, drafting, etc. They all have a note and a position on the leaderboard. I sort by avoiding all them.
- 4,038
- United States
Indeed. The AWD never bothered me, and I never swapped AWD. Call me old fashioned 
- 770
All they need to do is make the P.I system not go down with AWD swaps while make the car better in every way.
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
Personally I don't mind the AWD swaps. It's cool being able to have an awd Datsun 500 or an awd Dodge SRT4, and many other vehicles. I hope that I can still have a rwd Pontiac Solstice with a LS7 engine swap.
- 1,325
- Special_1
I take it the majority of you are not hot lappers, I myself find the leaderboards to be an addiction and am always looking to get in the top 10 in the world on most tracks. I haven't played FM3 in about a year because it was a let down with all production classes being dominated by AWD cars. I do still have top 10 times on the game even though I haven't played it in a long time, but if FM4 goes down the same route as FM3, I can only see it being another huge disappointment to the genuine hot lappers out there. I think I can say this for most hot lappers that have been around in teams for a long time.
Here's to hoping this is not going to be the case, as I for one do not want to be driving the same car in 4-5 classes to be competitive
Here's to hoping this is not going to be the case, as I for one do not want to be driving the same car in 4-5 classes to be competitive
- 9,473
- QLD, Down Under
- GTP_Paulie
- Paulie LDP
This is it, so long as the AWD cars don't have unfair advantages I don't mind in the slightest, different strokes for different folks. I myself did some swaps, like a Focus RS to AWD (like it should have been), and if the Pontiac G6 GXP is getting in I want to make it RWD. Some swaps are just plain stupid (like AWD Vipers) but again different strokes for different folks.
I take it the majority of you are not hot lappers, I myself find the leaderboards to be an addiction and am always looking to get in the top 10 in the world on most tracks. I haven't played FM3 in about a year because it was a let down with all production classes being dominated by AWD cars. I do still have top 10 times on the game even though I haven't played it in a long time, but if FM4 goes down the same route as FM3, I can only see it being another huge disappointment to the genuine hot lappers out there. I think I can say this for most hot lappers that have been around in teams for a long time.
Here's to hoping this is not going to be the case, as I for one do not want to be driving the same car in 4-5 classes to be competitive
Mmyeah, I'm a hotlapper/racer/tuner but am not particularly worried about being the outright fastest, I aim to be one of the fastest within my class of choice, so for example I want to be one of the fastest in B500 RWD classics.
- 10,829
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
This is what happens when you get hung up on online gaming. As a mostly offline player, drivetrain swaps add something extra with no downsides what-so-ever. And as for those who say "OMG it's unrealistic", earlier this summer Autoblog ran a story about a SAAB 9-3 wagon with a Viper drivetrain swap...
- 360
- Seattle, WA
- JuiceMcGoose
- JuiceMcGoose1
Racing the leaderboards involves tuning as much as driving. With so many possible combinations of cars and tunes it's not reasonable to expect a top time from early in the game to last. Then they add DLC cars.
As for swaps, I like them, but I've been a hot rodder, machinist and welder since the '60's so I think it is the way things should be.
As for swaps, I like them, but I've been a hot rodder, machinist and welder since the '60's so I think it is the way things should be.
- 1,325
- Special_1
At last somebody that speaks sense about the AWD vipers 👍
Look at the production class leaderboards, a 1950s Porsche dominating from F class all the way up to A class, the car actually goes as far as taking number one times in A and S class (New York Full). After that an AWD Viper takes top spot for the rest of S class and the power tracks in R3
I didn't realize they made a Porsche back in the 50s that would still be a dominant force today
- 593
- Lohmar, Germany
- jabofu
- DAG JaboFu
I also stopped trying to gain any places in the leaderboards. I would say that I can be quite fast, but seeing those AWD cars dominating is just stupid.
Especially on the small roadcourses with the Porsche 550 and when I look at a-class Nordschleife there are also only AWD cars (S5, Porsche GT3 RS AWD). People cant drive without AWD and it is banned in most race series in real for a reason.
AWD should not drop the LI like it does now and they have to do leaderboards for AWD, FWD and RWD each.
Especially on the small roadcourses with the Porsche 550 and when I look at a-class Nordschleife there are also only AWD cars (S5, Porsche GT3 RS AWD). People cant drive without AWD and it is banned in most race series in real for a reason.
AWD should not drop the LI like it does now and they have to do leaderboards for AWD, FWD and RWD each.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
You know, something I noticed in the Gamescom demo: The Impreza STI, which should've been in C-class by FM3's standards, was bumped up to mid B-class. I assume that that's due to the PI system taking the added grip of AWD cars into account now. I guess it would make sense that T10 did something about the advantage that AWD cars, whether they were swapped or not, had previously.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
jabofu
Should be quite simple to add a filter.
They could keep the overall leaderboards and add a search function.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Just slapping a +50 PI on AWD swaps would work fine. That way, you'd have to deal with cars that are AWD from the factory being dominant, at worst. Looking at FM3, those weren't the biggest offender, were they?
Also, from what I've seen so far, the PI ratings for basically anything have changed (the 458 was one of the early examples I noticed). Along with the PI on the STI, which differs much more from what would've been appropriate in FM3 than the change the 458 has undergone, I would assume that they've improved the algorythm that calculates a car's PI.
As far as drive train swaps go, I'm neutral. It's nice to have the possibility to take a nice FWD car and turn it into something with RWD or AWD, so I think it's a neat feature, even though it should cost huge amounts of credits and probably not be available on so many cars. Stuff like that is very costly and rare in the real world, but I guess it's cool if there's no favourable swap that gives you a massive advantage with the PI system (which is the true culprit here, in my opinion).
Also, from what I've seen so far, the PI ratings for basically anything have changed (the 458 was one of the early examples I noticed). Along with the PI on the STI, which differs much more from what would've been appropriate in FM3 than the change the 458 has undergone, I would assume that they've improved the algorythm that calculates a car's PI.
As far as drive train swaps go, I'm neutral. It's nice to have the possibility to take a nice FWD car and turn it into something with RWD or AWD, so I think it's a neat feature, even though it should cost huge amounts of credits and probably not be available on so many cars. Stuff like that is very costly and rare in the real world, but I guess it's cool if there's no favourable swap that gives you a massive advantage with the PI system (which is the true culprit here, in my opinion).
- 360
- Seattle, WA
- JuiceMcGoose
- JuiceMcGoose1
My dad and uncle were doing drivetrain swaps in the 1930's. Two used cars can be a fraction of the cost of a new one. It takes knowledge, tools and time.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Sure, I'm not saying they were no problem at all. The Audi S5 was the dominant car, after all. However, it was cars like the AWD swapped Lexus IS, the AWD swepped Viper and such that were all over the leaderboards, in multiple classes. Taking care of those would do the leaderboards a whole lot of good, right there.
Anyways, from what I've seen, I'd say that T10 revamped the PI system as a whole, so cars that come with AWD from the factory shouldn't be more of an issue than swapped ones.
And today, it also takes money, and lots of it. I know of one tuning company, for example, that swaps Skyline GT-R AWD drivetrains into the S15 Silvia, but stuff like that is so rare that it's hard to find it even when you know exactly what you're looking for.
- 360
- Seattle, WA
- JuiceMcGoose
- JuiceMcGoose1
The cost depends of if you are paying someone else to do the work and what cars you are using. I have a 30 X 40 foot shop in my backyard with crane, mig, tig, stick, oxy-acetylene, plasma cutter, Bridgeport mill, 18" X 64" lathe and a bunch of other stuff. I started in my grandfathers welding shop in '64. Was a auto mechanic from '68 to '78 and a machinist from '78 on. So I do it myself.
As for cars, I'm not in the business of doing swaps for other people so I wouldn't do it to expensive cars. I put a 350 Chevy in a Vega in the late '80's and sold it for more than I bought the parts for. So I made money. But that's not why I did it. I did it because it was a fast car and fun to do. I put a 440 Six-Pack in the '68 Dodge Dart around '84. That was really fast. Right now I have a 88 CRX HF with modded Type-R engine, 4 wheel Acura disc brakes and a bunch of other stuff. With the LS 5th gear I average 38-39 mpg when I putt around. Dynoed 225 hp and weights 2048 lbs. with a half tank of gas.
So if you are paying a company to do high-end cars, yeah, it's expensive. If you DIY, then you should at least break even.
As for cars, I'm not in the business of doing swaps for other people so I wouldn't do it to expensive cars. I put a 350 Chevy in a Vega in the late '80's and sold it for more than I bought the parts for. So I made money. But that's not why I did it. I did it because it was a fast car and fun to do. I put a 440 Six-Pack in the '68 Dodge Dart around '84. That was really fast. Right now I have a 88 CRX HF with modded Type-R engine, 4 wheel Acura disc brakes and a bunch of other stuff. With the LS 5th gear I average 38-39 mpg when I putt around. Dynoed 225 hp and weights 2048 lbs. with a half tank of gas.
So if you are paying a company to do high-end cars, yeah, it's expensive. If you DIY, then you should at least break even.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I think I might have not been prcise enough with my wording... What we've been talking about here is turning cars that are two-wheel driven into all-whel driven cars. Stuffing a Skyline GT-R's AWD drivetrain into a Silvia to end up with a four-wheel driven Nissan Silvia -which is very, very rare as opposed to swapping engines and transmissions. It's about altering the drivetrain layout as a whole.
And there are very, very few successful build I actually know of. One being Jun's Hyper Lemon 350Z R.
In the case of Forza, this mean swapping the drivetrain from a Ford RS200 into into a Mustang to create an all-wheel driven Mustang... Or an Eagle Talon's AWD drivetrain into a Viper SRT-10 ACR.
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