Anyone Gone back and Played Shift?

[boxox]

There are newer versions of both Overhaul and HD Mod than you will find in the download sections:

Shift HD Mod 1.0

Overhaul 1.45

I can answer most question about both mods

Quite a lot of Overhaul is optional and the mod is designed with not breaking the stock game too badly if possible (eg. AI works, upgrades work) in mind.

A couple of others I would recommend are:

Sunmod 2

Better Shift Visuals Mod
(part 1) (part 2)

You can apply SunMod after BSV and get more or less the best of both worlds (use 'no bloom' sunmod option for better results from this).

 

[Imari]

That's the point.

Almost, but not quite. Even on console, there are aspects of Shift that are noteworthy. If you don't get the AI all riled up at you, it's quite good. The modifications system is decent. The career structure does a decent job of focussing you on upgrading your chosen car for a tier, while allowing you to try many others in one off races. There are interesting modes online (unfortunately ruined by crashers). The atmosphere in-race is excellent.

Yeah, there's some major screwups, like the physics sucking balls out of the box. But that doesn't automatically make it terrible, any more than GT5 is automatically terrible for using PS2 assets.

 

[HeadsoupBob]

I only occasionally go back to the PS3 version, but play a hell of a lot on pc. I'm using the latest beta of overahaul, and the next full release of it will really elevate Shift to GT5 beating FFB and physics and especially AI (subjective of course...), it's a massive improvement and a big step up even from Overhaul 1.3.

I really enjoy racing the AI now; they still have personality and create close and intense racing, and it makes the career mode a lot more fun and rewarding.

Check the last five or so pages of the Overhaul mod thread on Nogripracing.com to see what's changed in the latest version, or ask Boxox if something else needs clearing up

Thanks for all your help here boxox, and especially for all the work you and the others are performing over at nogrip, it's really appreciated

 

[boxox]

Yeah it's nice getting compliments on it, and I'm especially glad matt2380 seems happy with the direction it's headed in. However I find it best to keep looking at it as a big collection of things that aren't quite as good as they could be yet

The next update should be a fairly large change again (about as big as 1.2 > 1.31 was) - should see every single mass, inertia, engine, tyre, and suspension/brake upgrade file tweaked for individual cars. And will probably separate 'works' cars into their own distinct car (and put them on slicks). For a few cars it might not be a huge change as far as actually driving it goes, but in terms of general data accuracy and the back end pretty large stuff.

 

[HeadsoupBob]

Separate works cars is a great idea. I love the stock cars so generally don't like to lose them from the garage by going works...

I wonder if there are some good scripters/programmers who could make a script to automatically unpack Shift (with error control!), update the shortcut and apply the Overhaul mod - at least just the car data/handling components, or selectable options to install the optional bits - possibly even to the packed version?

That would help all those who struggle with the whole unpacking/modding side of things and I'm sure there are plenty of people who shy away from these awesome mods due to the difficulties encountered.

Maybe not worth it so late after release and with Shift 2 coming soon...

 

[boxox]

I have been toying with making an installer for it - still a lot to go on other things for the time being, but shouldn't be too long before it's made more simple. In a way it helps to have a deadline now for Shift 2 because otherwise I am sure we would just find excuses to keep playing with betas indefinitely - but, hopefully before end of january there should be a unified dlc package, final unofficial community patch, "final" HD mod and "final" overhaul mod with exe installers.

The problems people have with installing it is more a problem of there being nothing much anyone can really do about Windows itself not being set up right to allow modifications to installed programs. It's not really that hard, it's just that there is no way to make it sound like it is not hard

 

[HeadsoupBob]

Too true, especially that UAC rubbish. First thing I do is turn that off, then I don't need 'run as administrator' for everything. That and never installing games into ..\program files\. At least with an exe installer those downloading the mods can't blame the mod itself

 

[niky]

Sigh... if only such upgrades were available for the console...

 

[ShortAznGuy]

I went back to play it with my new G27 but found out that the clutch doesn't work so I went straight back to Gran Turismo 5.

 

[skazz]

Well I downloaded Overhaul 1.45 beta, to see how things are going. The whole steering lag is definitely cured, and the cars I tried felt pretty good, so thumbs up for the progress on that front.

However, there's still some of that see-saw effect, which I find very disconcerting. This was admittedly more pronounced on the Cayman than on the GT-R which I tried around the Nordschleife.

Sadly the one real issue I have left with the game isn't something you can't mod out: I've always found something odd in the Shift graphics engine - hard to describe but kind of a lack of immediacy, a disconnectedness. You could call it the "30 fps effect" except it's running silky smooth at 60fps. It definitely isn't my PC, since the GTX460 can play it on max settings with lovely high frame rates, but something just isn't right somewhere with the basic game engine, to the extent that I get a kind of eye strain playing it. In comparison, I don't notice this feeling playing DiRT2 at ultra settings, playing any of the GMotor engine stuff (rFactor/Simbin) or iRacing.

So thanks for the tips, good work on the changes in Overhaul mod, but I think I'll stick to GT5 for now and hope Shift 2 brings improvements in the right areas.

 

[boxox]

Well I downloaded Overhaul 1.45 beta, to see how things are going. The whole steering lag is definitely cured, and the cars I tried felt pretty good, so thumbs up for the progress on that front.

However, there's still some of that see-saw effect, which I find very disconcerting. This was admittedly more pronounced on the Cayman than on the GT-R which I tried around the Nordschleife.

Sadly the one real issue I have left with the game isn't something you can't mod out: I've always found something odd in the Shift graphics engine - hard to describe but kind of a lack of immediacy, a disconnectedness. You could call it the "30 fps effect" except it's running silky smooth at 60fps. It definitely isn't my PC, since the GTX460 can play it on max settings with lovely high frame rates, but something just isn't right somewhere with the basic game engine, to the extent that I get a kind of eye strain playing it. In comparison, I don't notice this feeling playing DiRT2 at ultra settings, playing any of the GMotor engine stuff (rFactor/Simbin) or iRacing.

So thanks for the tips, good work on the changes in Overhaul mod, but I think I'll stick to GT5 for now and hope Shift 2 brings improvements in the right areas.

That kind of pendulum effect is actually something you should run into with the RR / RMR Porsches and I'm pleased to read you found it different there to the GTR

Some cars do have it to an excessive degree though - it's a car by car thing, some cars have inconsistent mass (total weight) vs inertia (distinct moment of inertia around each axis), but there aren't terribly many like this (5 or so) and we're pretty sure we've found them to fix for next release. I think it's just one of those things where they didn't quite audit everything they put in the final release version and some cars had their mass/default upgrade level changed without every single thing that was affected by that change getting adjusted to it.

Graphics lag - one thing you might try is one of the optional components which disables the damage deformation system. But there are lots of things that can potentially cause this to happen on any given PC, background tasks, virus scanners, graphics driver settings the game doesn't agree with, etc. The readme for the damage/stutter fix thing should go over most of what you should try first before you use it.

 

[Topracer]

I went back to play it with my new G27 but found out that the clutch doesn't work so I went straight back to Gran Turismo 5.

Turn auto clutch to off , It should work.

 

[skazz]

Graphics lag - one thing you might try is one of the optional components which disables the damage deformation system. But there are lots of things that can potentially cause this to happen on any given PC, background tasks, virus scanners, graphics driver settings the game doesn't agree with, etc. The readme for the damage/stutter fix thing should go over most of what you should try first before you use it.

Thanks for the tip. I dug through the readme and made the appropriate changes (I'd not got VSync on and made an exception for the Shift folder in Microsoft Security Essentials AV). And I ran FRAPS to confirm that I have an absolutely stable 60fps constantly. No change to my "symptoms".

I realise that I was probably not describing things very well: The overhaul mod has totally removed any feeling of lag, that works great. Very happy with that improvement. However, even with motion blur set to off in the graphics, and high AA/AF settings, there's always a slightly unfocussed feel to the visuals, which isn't helped by the slightly strange colour palette. This is causing me eye strain, I guess. You could say that now that the lag issues have been cured I can realise that the underlying problem is with another aspect of the game. I guess I'll go look at the HD mod next then.

Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[boxox]

HD Mod may or may not help. The PCGH component of it reworks the motion blur shader a fair bit and you might find it more agreeable (as far as I know it has to be set to "high" to do anything to it) but it might also not work out. Nothing in HD Mod will make Shift run any faster - if anything it is quite a bit more demanding, especially if you're racing with cars with a lot of custom skins (997GT3RSR, R8LMS, F430GTC), the texture budget goes from doing eg. 4 1024x1024 skins to ~8+ 4096x4096 ones, and the shaders operate on many more objects at higher precision.

The other alternative if you don't like the stock visual style is running SunMod with the "no bloom" option, or Better Shift Visuals (which will also turn off bloom). I run both together (sunmod after BSV), BSV makes some great changes to the skyboxes and trackside objects/advertising, but by itself I think it's way too dark and the weather/time of day for SunMod is usually much brighter. Personally I think the combination of HD Mod, BSV and SunMod, running those high skincount cars in the morning at Nordschleife, with all the nice new fog effects, is about as good as it can get

 

[deftonesmx17]

I'm not wasting my time answering at trolling posts like yours. GT5 is HORRID Yeah you right

You obviously didn't read my post then and just felt like trolling yourself. Re-read and you'll find I basically said it is a great DRIVING game (meaning it drives and feels good), but is a piss poor example of a RACING game. This is a major downfall of both the Forza and GT series.

Have you ever wondered why its tagline is 'The real driving simulator' and not 'The real racing simulator'?

 

[boxox]

Just came across this handy comparison one of the skinners made - 1.0 release of HD Mod is now out, up at Racedepartment and NoGrip.

256MB VRAM on the PS3 really limits what you can get away with texture wise! This is what would happen if they could spend 15x as much memory per skin

 

[J91patriz]

hi all, I'm a noob in this forum so please be kind with me......anyway going back to the topic i've never left shift because I'haven't got any other racing game, not considering sbk x , and also because I've found it quite funny during online races excluding the moments when some idiots crash into you...What I don't like though is the fact that you can't see a thing of the dashboard and that spoils the experience of the game...of course IMHO

 

[isamu]

Sadly the one real issue I have left with the game isn't something you can't mod out: I've always found something odd in the Shift graphics engine - hard to describe but kind of a lack of immediacy, a disconnectedness. You could call it the "30 fps effect" except it's running silky smooth at 60fps. It definitely isn't my PC, since the GTX460 can play it on max settings with lovely high frame rates, but something just isn't right somewhere with the basic game engine, to the extent that I get a kind of eye strain playing it. In comparison, I don't notice this feeling playing DiRT2 at ultra settings, playing any of the GMotor engine stuff (rFactor/Simbin) or iRacing.

I think I know exactly what you are talking about. I notice it too. There's something about the way the game's graphic engine renders the motion and scenery. It's kinda like a 30fps effect, but still smooth. Very very difficult to describe. Other games that use this EA engine suffer from this issue as well. I remember playing Skate 1 & 2 on the Xbox and thinking the EXACT same thing. It also that "look" and awkward "motion" to it. A kinda cold and..."statue-like" movement and look to it. Again, it's very hard to put into words.

 

[Schwarzenegger]

I'm not wasting my time answering at trolling posts like yours. GT5 is HORRID Yeah you right

That's the point.

It IS a horrid RACING game due to a number of reasons, but GT5 has the more accurate physics.

 

[runfromcheney]

I played Shift almost daily in anticipation of GT5, and since I got my copy of GT, Shift has basically been a drink coaster. I eventually got bored with the one-player mode and for a short time played online only, but that got old really quick. Online in Shift is just anarchy. You can't complete a single lap without someone purposely ramming you off the track or spinning you. You can't take a turn in that game without someone plowing into your rear while you brake and thus sending you into the sandpit. There even are people who cut corners just to slam into those coming out of the corner.

I am not the only one, either. All over the internet I have seen people complain endlessly about how the online mode of Shift is just a breeding ground for assholes. I think it comes from the fact that the majority of people who bought Shift weren't serious racers, given Need For Speed's history of being an arcade racer, plus the fact that the game frequently encourages rowdy driving. In one player mode, the game requires you to wipe out a certain number of opponents in a number of races.

Thus, I understand why GT5's online mode sometimes seems too happy to dole out penalties and has so many restrictions, as PD probably saw all the complaints and wanted to make sure GT's online mode didn't end up being total anarchy like Shift's. Personally, I would rather be occasionally given a "shortcut" penalty for clipping an apex than be rammed off the track every time I brake for a corner.

 

[Destinkeys]

Sadly, though, particularly with GT5 still in the hands of the ADD kids who will be off to the next racing game (whatever it is, however bad or good it is) as soon as it comes out, unless you are in a dedicated Friends Lobby, it is STILL a bash-fest on GT5. And the fiasco with the GT Academy shows that corner cutting exploits are not the sole province of Shift players. Or the handbrake exploit... fastest laps are being set because handbrake physics are not accurate in GT5.

I've tried playing quite a bit of Shuffle Racing in GT5, possibly the closest the game gets to Shift's much more limited Tier system, and the Manufacturer Races. Trust me, I have seen as much mayhem there as anywhere else! Sure, there's penalties you can set to Strong, but the game doesn't get it right. Often, YOU end up with the penalty when someone ELSE rams you! Yes, it makes more of an EFFORT. But it still doesn't get it right.

To be honest, I'd still rather play Shift online. The servers are more reliable, the classes are fewer, so more people are racing the same classes, it has a TRUE 'Spec Mode' where every car is identical, you get fastest lap for each car at the end of the race (sometimes a consolation for not winning after someone shunts you off!), there are no in car stats to the car behind you (or all the cars on the track), and lobby creators can't create lobbies that favor THEIR car...

GT5 has enough online problems that the door is wide open for Shift 2.

Now, let's see if they get it right!

 

[UkHardcore23]

Tried going back to it last night, after Forza 3 and GT5 the driving is just awful!

Really hope they nail the driving for Shift 2, if they do it will be a brilliant game and put Forza & GT5 to shame!

 

[runfromcheney]

Sadly, though, particularly with GT5 still in the hands of the ADD kids who will be off to the next racing game (whatever it is, however bad or good it is) as soon as it comes out, unless you are in a dedicated Friends Lobby, it is STILL a bash-fest on GT5. And the fiasco with the GT Academy shows that corner cutting exploits are not the sole province of Shift players. Or the handbrake exploit... fastest laps are being set because handbrake physics are not accurate in GT5.

I've tried playing quite a bit of Shuffle Racing in GT5, possibly the closest the game gets to Shift's much more limited Tier system, and the Manufacturer Races. Trust me, I have seen as much mayhem there as anywhere else! Sure, there's penalties you can set to Strong, but the game doesn't get it right. Often, YOU end up with the penalty when someone ELSE rams you! Yes, it makes more of an EFFORT. But it still doesn't get it right.

To be honest, I'd still rather play Shift online. The servers are more reliable, the classes are fewer, so more people are racing the same classes, it has a TRUE 'Spec Mode' where every car is identical, you get fastest lap for each car at the end of the race (sometimes a consolation for not winning after someone shunts you off!), there are no in car stats to the car behind you (or all the cars on the track), and lobby creators can't create lobbies that favor THEIR car...

GT5 has enough online problems that the door is wide open for Shift 2.

Now, let's see if they get it right!

It does get annoying, but it is not nearly as bad as Shift because of the physics. In Shift, if you get rammed, your car flies through the air and you have a spectacular crash. In GT5, you just get thrown off your line, and in a worst case scenario you end up kissing the wall or clipping a sand trap. However, I have never come close to reaching the level of frustration on GT5 multiplayer that I did during Shift that made me eventually put the game down and never play it again. However, I think part of that is that GT5 doesn't keep a record of your online finishes, so I don't have to worry about having a huge loss record for everyone to see just because I keep getting bumped around too much.

 

[Destinkeys]

To be honest, in Shift 1 I simply got fast enough to the point that I was rarely involved in the melée. Take TC off, and you were usually off the line faster than anyone else, make it through that first corner and you were GONE! You didn't have to deal with the bashers (because generally, anyone fast enough to keep up was also a good driver) until you got to lap them!

'Boost' and 'Shuffle' on GT5 (unless you host the lobby and turn them off) tends to keep the pack together where the punters can do their worst! And yes, the crashes tend to be less spectacular, but that's hardly a GOOD feature, is it? You want accurate physics, that includes accurate crashes, too!

I agree that there ARE many good, tight, clean races going on. But they can be hard to find, frustrating if you haven't got EXACTLY the right kind of car with the right types of upgrades for that exact lobby (all other lobbies will have different requirements, usually), and populated with types that have little tolerance for those not quite as 'good' as them. I've seen races on these lobbies where they will happily bang about with each other (but mostly just a little rubbing and love taps) but will boot mercilessly any newcomer that makes the SLIGHTEST contact of any kind...

I really used to like how 'focused' Shift''s racing was. Sure, far less choice, but that made for far more races against opponents far more even in car type and power.

They both had their good and bad points, but BOTH could learn much from each other, too!

 

[Destinkeys]

Oh, and those win/loss stats, and in game and end game stats were the BEST thing about Shift... (IMO!)

It was easy to check pre-race whether you were getting involved with a bunch of noobs or experienced drivers (and leave if they were all noobs!). The Precision/Aggression badges (although aggression could have been weighted MUCH higher to make it more apparent who was who) helped you be aware of who the heavy hitters were, and who stayed (relatively) clean.

During the race, you always had the timing to everybody else, you could see if you were pulling away, you could see if they were gaining on you, you could see if someone had stopped and was probably lurking round a blind corner... Nothing like that in GT5.

And finally, rather than just the overall race time, you had fastest lap stats, too. I can't think of a track racing type where this stat ISN'T important (be nice if you got a few credits for it as perhaps consolation for not winning!).

GT5's online isn't TERRIBLE, don't get me wrong. But it could be SO much better, and Shift 1, for all it's limitations, I really found much better for nice, casual gaming. If you are in a League, or CDC, sure, you are going to be OK, but as someone that usually prefers just random racing, Shift blew GT5 away!

 

[isamu]

So..., the original poster started this thread asking if anyone has gone back and played NFS Shift, and my answer is:

Not only did I return to the game after having it on the shelf since the first day it was released in September 2009, due to it not running properly on my PC, but I actually started playing the single player career campaign for the first time three weeks ago, and now I am proud to announce here on the forum, that I have completed the Career mode *AND* all the Invitational Events in their entirety!!!! ALL driving assists were turned off, and AI have been mostly on medium, sometimes on hard.

In addition, I have collected EVERY SINGLE STAR and have Platinumed ALL Master badges *except* the online ones.

Now let me talk briefly about the bad aspects: The AI....well, they are way too aggressive and some of the races in Tier 4 were an ABSOLUTE exercise in sheer frustration! The very last Invitational Event, which is the Time Elimination race around Nordscheife in the McClaren almost made rip my steering wheel from my racing frame, and hurl it at the wall. I've never used so many F-Bombs in one single race LOL.

Also, despite the PC version having been patched, I am STILL getting into certain cars where they will bounce on certain tracks for no apparent reason! How this was not fixed altogether is a mystery to me!

But, with that being said, am I feeling pretty good about this game? You betcha! I've bad-mouthed this game several times here on this very forum, and I came *THIS* close to uninstalling it. But something told me to give it another chance, and I'm sure glad I did. The career mode, to me, is UNPARALLELED in its variety and presentation. The sense of speed and sense of driving a race car is superb.

Need for Speed SHIFT gets a solid 8 out of 10 from me! Bring on the sequel!!! 👍

 

[FuriousDemon]

Decided to try out Shift 1 demo on PC before committing to buy Shift 2. Some observations:
- Looks like Shift 1's graphics are about the same as what we'll have in Shift 2: Cockpit is great, love that all the sensors are working, unlike in GT5, however everything outside of the cockpit is not so great, not bad, but looks kinda cartoonish.
- Sounds are probably the best out of any of the racing games I've played this gen. Pretty awesome.
- AI is better than GT5, it seems. At least it's more fun to play with.
- Physics are blergh, hopefully Shift2 is way better.
- Damage is pretty good
- Sense of speed is good

Overall I'd say I'd give it 7.5/10, fun to mess around with but not to have a serious "relationship", mainly because of the physics. Hopefully Shift2 can change that.

 

[Destinkeys]

I'll take Shift's overly aggressive AI over GT5's slow cornering, brain dead AI any day and twice on Sundays! Every time I race GT5, I KNOW I'm racing a machine (and a seriously slow one, at that). Shift often convinced me some evil driver was lurking behind the wheel. Drive clean, they leave you alone (except when they are getting in each others' grilles!), but start to bash them around, and it's 'Vengeance!'...

Maybe it's no more 'realistic' that GT5, but they sure are a hell of a lot more fun, and a serious challenge, which GT5's sure AIN'T!

 

[vrooom]

I'll take Shift's overly aggressive AI over GT5's slow cornering, brain dead AI any day and twice on Sundays! Every time I race GT5, I KNOW I'm racing a machine (and a seriously slow one, at that). Shift often convinced me some evil driver was lurking behind the wheel. Drive clean, they leave you alone (except when they are getting in each others' grilles!), but start to bash them around, and it's 'Vengeance!'...

Maybe it's no more 'realistic' that GT5, but they sure are a hell of a lot more fun, and a serious challenge, which GT5's sure AIN'T!

I completely agree. The AI in Shift 1 is mad but they force you to drive clean otherwise the race will deteriorate into a crash-derby! They also provide a great challenge, fun and make quick races a blast!

Also it's very satisfying to survive the first corner pile-up. Especially in Spa and Road America it's total madness, you have to give room to other cars and catch them later and pass them cleanly on the straights. I had great fun the other day racing the AI on hard difficulty. Another good thing in Shift is the lack of rolling starts. Again I can't understand what was Polyphony thinking? Probably they weren't thinking at all, too busy with photo-mode and B-Spec!

Finally even though in Shift the AI is mad I never became enraged towards the game. Even when I find myself in the middle of a huge pile-up at Ekhart Lake! I always have fun in Shift. Right now it has become again (bye, bye GT5) my main racing game until it is replaced by Shift 2. 👍

In GT5 with the brain dead, slow AI which STILL isn't aware of your presence on the track racing becomes a chore, a bore-fest and an exercise in frustation! Also their cars must weight two tons, behave like scaletrix cars and the collision physics are laughable! In my opinion racing in GT5 is broken beyond repair, it doesn't matter if PD adds more A-Spec events or more seasonal events, it's impossible to have fun with so awful AI (or should I say Artificial Stupidity) routines!

 

[Destinkeys]

The weird thing is, you read around GTPlanet, you'll often find honest GT fans say the AI has ALWAYS been like this. Now, I can understand GT4, having an online component, maybe this was not too much a game-crusher, but PREVIOUS GT titles? How did this franchise EVER get the reputation it got?

We had to put up with some SERIOUS flack from GT fanboys during Shift's initial run. 'Oh, GT is SO much better than Shift, it is just an arcade game, no SERIOUS racer would play it' yada yada yada... I even bought GT5 thinking maybe they were RIGHT.

Facepalm!

Sure, GT might have better physics. But its AI isn't even worthy of a PS1 game, let alone PS3. You are right, vroom. Even 400 more events, without a serious update to the AI isn't going to save that game. They should just ditch A-Spec, B-Spec and the other Events, and make it an online racing title ONLY. That's the ONLY place you can get a race that isn't a very bad joke...

I can't WAIT for Shift 2. I'm going to have SO much fun trolling the GT forums like they trolled Shift's, and rub their faces in just how GOOD the entire game is, not JUST the physics and the Nordschliese...