Are the Rolling Starts bugged

[John Smith UK]

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

 

[TumeK5]

By that logic, if you qualify one thousandth behind pole, you'll be starting a negligible distance behind

 

[Samus]

Not a bug, no, that's just how PD programmed the gaps in rolling starts.

 

[TechnoIsLove]

Yep, it really depends on starting position it seems. In one race, i started 3rd and when we got going, i was 1.2 sec behind 2nd place instantly and 4th place behind me was just 0.7 seconds away from my rear bumper.

I then went into a Race B with just 2 laps qualifying and started 14th. As soon as we got going, i was just 0.8 behind behind 13th but the guy behind me was 1.8 seconds behind. By turn one with no incident, P1 was already 12 seconds ahead of me... still managed to finish 7th so happy with my performance 🙂

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

Welcome to Gran Turismo and The Rolling Starts!

As far as I know the rolling starts are working as they always have - poorly.

If the rolling starts happens on a bend (even a slight one) you have to start steering straight away to straighten the car up. If the car infront doesn't need to steer, they'll get a very small advantage in acceleration.

Normally the top 2-4 cars only have to contend with eachother on lap 1, while everyone else has to play catch up due to starting on bends/before corners or chicanes etc.

It's just dumb.

 

[John Smith UK]

By that logic, if you qualify one thousandth behind pole, you'll be starting a negligible distance behind

If the game followed racing rules you’d be a car length behind with a rolling start, even in F1, cars are only separated on the grid by a couple of meters

 

[sixty4half]

By that logic, if you qualify one thousandth behind pole, you'll be starting a negligible distance behind

That's not at all what he said.

 

[Famine]

So, first of all, no, not bugged.

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

As you'll see from the options in Custom Races, there's a number of different settings for how far cars are apart at rolling starts. However on average there's about 0.8s between each position at the race start, and they're usually single-file.

While GT7 - and GT Sport - almost exclusively uses a single-file rolling start more akin to a race restart after a safety car, double-file is available.

As for why... 🤷‍♂️

 

[Malipiero1]

If the game followed racing rules you’d be a car length behind with a rolling start, even in F1, cars are only separated on the grid by a couple of meters

Also racing rules don't allow overtaking BEFORE you cross the starting line ... GT does.

 

[Fuzzi0n]

Also racing rules don't allow overtaking BEFORE you cross the starting line ... GT does.

That heavily depends on the series and type of racing. Ovals you can pass on the high line usually, some series on road circuits just allow passing once it goes green. At the end it's up to the officiating body, in this case being Polyphony.

 

[John Smith UK]

That heavily depends on the series and type of racing. Ovals you can pass on the high line usually, some series on road circuits just allow passing once it goes green. At the end it's up to the officiating body, in this case being Polyphony.

But GT makes big things of its links to the FIA - why not simply follow the FIA rules for a number of things like racing

 

[meekrab]

But GT makes big things of its links to the FIA - why not simply follow the FIA rules for a number of things like racing

That is no longer the case as of GT7. And "the FIA" does not have a single monolithic rulebook, the regulations are still ultimately decided by each individual series.

 

[DivitLad]

But GT makes big things of its links to the FIA - why not simply follow the FIA rules for a number of things like racing

They not linked with them anymore

 

[daan]

even in F1, cars are only separated on the grid by a couple of meters

8.

 

[MotorHammer]

I’ve definitely found that hitting your gear up shift at exactly the right time on a rolling start is critical.

 

[fastone371]

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

F1 doesnt start by qualifying gaps, they start in preselected positions for every race.

 

[John Smith UK]

F1 doesnt start by qualifying gaps, they start in preselected positions for every race

You’re not wrong but The starting grid consists of two cars per row in staggered formation, with an interval of eight meters between each row and the next. Therefore, starting 20th compared with 1st is a distance disadvantage of 152 metres
So what I said is still correct irrespective of the qualifying time between the cars

That is no longer the case as of GT7. And "the FIA" does not have a single monolithic rulebook, the regulations are still ultimately decided by each individual series.

Agreed so I will qualify my statement by saying use the FIA WEC start procedure which is a Rolling Start

 

[fastone371]

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

My guess is that it is to reduce crashes on the race start. When it's a grid start the cars start 2 wide, it's only the rolling start that is single file. If they bunch the cars up more on the start there would most likely be more accidents which generally makes racing less fun. Probably not what PD is after. I'm sure PD had to make many compromises to strike a balance between realism and an enjoyable experience.

 

[bone_tone]

There's definitely a bug of some sort in Race B this week - I've had some weird gaps today! First race I had the guy behind me alongside me as we came around the bend before the start/finish straight, he was ahead of me then before we crossed the startline.

Next race, the 4 cars in front were 3 seconds ahead of me as the countdown timer hit zero!

 

[Samus]

My guess is that it is to reduce crashes on the race start. When it's a grid start the cars start 2 wide, it's only the rolling start that is single file. If they bunch the cars up more on the start there would most likely be more accidents which generally makes racing less fun. Probably not what PD is after. I'm sure PD had to make many compromises to strike a balance between realism and an enjoyable experience.

On the contrary though, taking away the excitement of a close pack start makes things less fun in itself. Starting a race without any opportunity to even try to pass just one car into T1 is pretty dull.

It's also basically them admitting that their penalty system isn't any good. If it was, people would soon learn there is no benefit to bad driving at a race start.

 

[fastone371]

On the contrary though, taking away the excitement of a close pack start makes things less fun in itself. Starting a race without any opportunity to even try to pass just one car into T1 is pretty dull.

It's also basically them admitting that their penalty system isn't any good. If it was, people would soon learn there is no benefit to bad driving at a race start.

I think the biggest problem to work out with the penalty system is assigning blame due to lag. The penalty system may be bad now but imagine how bad it would be if they tried to assign blame and got it wrong most of the time.

As far as starting races by qualifying gap what do you propose they do if 4 cars are all qualified within .25 seconds? All 4 would be abreast, that doesn't sound fun to me.

 

[Samus]

As far as starting races by qualifying gap what do you propose they do if 4 cars are all qualified within .25 seconds?

Well, op seemed to be proposing that, not me. I'm simply suggesting either a standard grid start or a double file rolling start with the cars as close together as possible.

Compare and contrast a real rolling start at Monza:

To GT7:

Around 16 LMP cars occupying less than half the length of the pit lane, and that's even with a purposeful gap between Hyper and LMP2. In GT7 the car starting 13th is barely at the pit entry as the leader starts.

 

[Artremis]

Well, op seemed to be proposing that, not me. I'm simply suggesting either a standard grid start or a double file rolling start with the cars as close together as possible.

Compare and contrast a real rolling start at Monza:
View attachment 1173218

To GT7:
View attachment 1173223

Around 16 LMP cars occupying less than half the length of the pit lane, and that's even with a purposeful gap between Hyper and LMP2. In GT7 the car starting 13th is barely at the pit entry as the leader starts.

Monza T1 on GT would be awful if they had closer gaps, just look at how it plays out on ACC's open lobbies. I'd imagine the penalty system would gain sentience and delete itself with the amount of contact and track limits infringements.

 

[John Smith UK]

I think the biggest problem to work out with the penalty system is assigning blame due to lag. The penalty system may be bad now but imagine how bad it would be if they tried to assign blame and got it wrong most of the time.

As far as starting races by qualifying gap what do you propose they do if 4 cars are all qualified within .25 seconds? All 4 would be abreast, that doesn't sound fun to me.

But you are almost trying to forgive a really poor penalty system with that answer by saying if it wasn’t there it would’ve worse, we know that but the fact the system is so poor means the game leaves too many racers with a negative experience. It has to be more right than wrong for your point to stack and it isn’t - decisions appear too random, players who should be penalized aren’t and it’s the innocent party tagged. the game gets it wrong too many times to be acceptable. I push you off the track at the start and get maybe 5 seconds but more likely 2 - you may now be at the back of the pack - Id love to see Polyphony add in a long lap penalty like in moto go, you

But for rolling starts polyphony Have no excuses for not being able to have a rolling start with the cars equally spaced, there is no excuse again for the random nature of the gap between cars, again it’s not fair or in any way what happens in real races.

the game allegedly cost 50 to 60 million USD - with a budget like that isn’t it a fair expectation to expect better Especially after 4 to 5 years in dev

 

[Samus]

Monza T1 on GT would be awful if they had closer gaps, just look at how it plays out on ACC's open lobbies. I'd imagine the penalty system would gain sentience and delete itself with the amount of contact and track limits infringements.

That's racing though. People will never learn to drive in those situations if you don't put them in them.

 

[champagnepowe]

Had the pole position get a 6 sec head start. That's the only issue I've seen.

 

[timmy6321]

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

Just to rearrange the thoughts here for those suggesting the OP is asking to start 1 sec behind the leader.
Seems to me the question is:
1. I am 1 second slower than pole, but in a race of 16 vehicles with myself in 10 I start 12 seconds behind the leader. Why?
2. Also, why would cars that are identical and BOP'ed starting in consecutive positions on a controlled rolling start have such a wide and unusual gap between all 3 vehicles?

Answers:
1. Its a little ridiculous and makes races pretty boring and pedestrian, but does stop T1 pile ups.... mostly.
2. Only other thing to consider is AT vs MT causing acceleration differences between identical vehicles.

 

[Foresticek]

Rolling starts in GT7 are terrible. If PD are worried about what would happen in the first corner they should give us strict penalty system. Divebomber should get much bigger penalty than couple seconds and his car should suffer some serious damage. People would learn to be more careful and respectful.
These gaps right now are taking lot of fun from the game, there should be much closer racing than it is now. Now it looks like PD and Kaz never watched real life races. And yes, I know Kaz is doing some real racing, but his experience is definitely not transfered into the game

 

[MatskiMonk]

And yes, I know Kaz is doing some real racing, but his experience is definitely not transfered into the game

I'd suggest trying to replicate a start like this...

.. is going to be absolute carnage every single time.

 

[pedrocor]

Can someone explain the rolling starts to me, you qualify 1 second behind the leader but by the time you cross the line at the start you are already sometimes 12 seconds behind.

in my last daily race I qualified a tenth behind the guy in front of me and 3 tenths from the guy behind - I cross the line and I’m a second and half behind the guy in front and a second in front of the guy behind - the spacing is created by the game As we were all in GR4 Nissans so even allowing for a dodgy throttle that shouldn’t happen

I don’t get it so what am I missing… a rolling start is normally cars in pairs not one behind the other, if they are one behind the other they are normally a car length ish apart so why is GT reinventing the racing wheel?

The qualifying gaps are the same, no matter what is a qualifying time delta, no matter what form of racing.
In GT7 the gap between cars is annormally large, I believe due to flawed graphic processing, as the frame rate drops are noticeable when you have multiple cars on the screen. I think PD put intentionally the grid well spread to minimize the number of cars to show in almost full detail.

Also racing rules don't allow overtaking BEFORE you cross the starting line ... GT does.

Not a rule on mainstream racing.
F1 and subsequent FIA series, after the leader passed the first safety car line, which is well before the start finish line, the racing starts (in case of slippery surface, race director can decide by a rolling start) or is resumed and everyone can pass even before the safety car line.
In NASCAR, there is the GEICO Restart Zone, which is marked on the exterior wall, usually midway between last corner and start/finish line, were the race starts or is resumed after every caution.
Neither case the start/finish line matters.