Atmosphere

[JohnBM01]

GTP, this thread was a topic I wanted to reliease sometime in the past, but I never really had the chance to think about it too much. Now I want your ideas on if GT should feature a sense of atmosphere away from the track.

Think about some Ridge Racer games, even Ridge Racer Type 4. Can you remember at Phantom Mile or even Shooting Hoops when you seen planes fly by and fireworks going off? Can you remember at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in "Test Drive: Le Mans" (not "Le Mans 24 Hours") when you seen fireworks go off around the track when it was nighttime? Both of these shown some atmosphere around the track to make racing more interesting. You get a sense that fans love their racing and want to show that. I thought it was pretty weak to see so few fans in the stands at Grand Valley Speedway in GT4. That's the signature race course of the GT series, and so few fans in the stands. One word question- whazzupwitdat (what's up with that?)? If ever there was a 1000 mile race that went into night at Grand Valley Speedway, I'd love to see more involved fans and a greater amount of festivities. I think changing up a race's atmosphere would make racing fun away from racing. It won't affect racing in any way, but it would make races more fun since you have fans and atmosphere contibuting to the fun. Think about it like this. What would most GT and sportscar racing be like if you don't see cornerworkers (granted they'll be modeled into GT5) waving flags as the race comes to an end. Don't forget about fans in the stands and on the grass waving flags of respective manufacturers in the race. Look at fireworks exploding after a night race comes to an end and the winner crossed the line. I wouldn't rule out fans cheering louder for the winner or if you're the one leading the race.

What do you think about offering atmosphere for races? Reply at will.

 

[L8 Apex]

I agree 110%, John. I think it would be neat if PD included a way to set your home country/region at the start of your GT Mode carrer, so that if I was to take the lead at Laguna Seca or Infineon (or, better yet, Fontana or Long Beach) the crowd would start cheering louder, blasting their airhorns and waving flags. Same for the nationality of car you're driving; if I'm coming to the flag to win a race on, say, Rome Circuit in my Alfa, Pagani, Lancia or, dare I say it, Lambo or Ferrari, I want to see and hear the spectators go ballistic.
I also want to see fully modeled and accurately behaving corner marshalls in addition to local and full course yellows (Hey, they already have a pace car and will supposedly have damage in GT5!). They also showed mechanics gathered on the pit wall cheering their car home in the last TGS vid, IIRC. And how about some TV-related items, i.e. camera copters, cameramen on cranes/scaffolding, cameramen and pit reporters walking around the pits, etc. On a related note, it would be too much to ask to includce commentary? I noticed Bob Varsha was listed under "Special Thanks" in the credits FMV, so maybe he and some of his Speed colleagues could be included in the GT5 gameplay experience. (Other regions would get their own all-star broadcast teams. That would totally kick @$$, IMO.)
And last, but far from least, how about some "race ambassadors" (a.k.a. grid girls). Sure, including them might inspire those nuns at the ESRB to slap their goofball "E10+" rating on GT5, but it is supposed to be a simulation, right? So wouldn't it make sense to include just a pinch of simulated T & A? 👍
The more realism, the better, I say!

 

[MadduckUK]

i like that idea! as long as theres always the option to turn it OFF. acutally thats probably the best idea for adding atmosphere iv heard yet

 

[Dave A]

Yeah having race marshalls and flags will add atmosphere to the actual races (Don't be thinking of RD3 as it is John, think of an improved one system) say like in GTR, I think the flags in that are given spot on, and crowd's being better represented, but I think PD will do that with all thier human element talk.

One aspect of atmosphere I'd like to see is pre-race, before each race in GT3 and GT4 you see the race starting in the background with the computer controling your car, now why does the race, start, and then then the race start, always seemed odd to me. What I'd like to see is perhaps in the background you can see the pit lane with all the car's and pit crews there, working on the car's and perhaps see the car's coming into the phe pit's and leaving the pit's for testing or qualifying, depending on what session you upto. Perhaps have the camera like a first person view of a person walking up and down the pit lane, you'd haev the pit crew's, some spectators in the background, perhaps camera crew's for the race coverage and the pit lane girls getting ready for the race start etc.

 

[Tenacious D]

I can't argue with any of that.

Sega usually adds lots of elements similar to this in their racers. Ever since Virtua Racing back in the early 90s, the trackside has had some interesting things that I used to crawl atround in practice laps to park and watch.

L4S's idea is like what I thought about at one time in an idle speculation, like a live action "cinema," where there's pre-race activity like every race has, and the camera can roam around and give us a glimpse of it. Since it's done in real time (I assume), then it could be different every race, as the camera can do several different scenes as it sees fit. And for the impatient among us, I'm sure we could skip right to the start of the race if we want. I don't know if that's something that would interest Kazunori, but I like the idea myself.

And racing babes? Heck yeah!

 

[JohnBM01]

Let me provide a little more background on this topic. Believe it or not, part of my inspiration for this thread came from when I was playing my college sports games (namely from EA). Almost every college football fan knows that it's tough playing in Away games at Tennessee, Michigan, Florida, Ohio State, and places like that. It's because the college atmosphere is insane! You actually feel like you're in an environment where you have active fans who support their favorite team all the way. I can even think of when (and NASCAR races there this weekend) Talladega, whereas the fans cheered when Dale Earnhardt Jr. was leading. If a better sense of atmosphere was added, I don't want it to end up like those whiny baby fans at Talladega when Jeff Gordon won the race over Dale Earnhardt Jr. If you don't follow NASCAR or don't know what I'm talking about, let me briefly tell you what happened. Jeff Gordon won the race plain and simple over Dale Jr. Jeff Gordon was celebrating his win while fans were throwing beer cans and food at Jeff Gordon, littering the track around him. That is the atmosphere I am NOT looking for.

I noticed the fully-modelled corner workers in GTR when I did some test runs at Monza and Pergussa(?). It would be very interesting if fans actually left the race track or went asleep, especially in blowout wins and endurance races that go into the night. One would probably notice fewer fans in rainy events or on "rovals" (except if the Rolex Sports Cars are racing on one). I think atmosphere depends on two factors: (1) the type of race involved, and (2) the local flavor. Here is an example of contrasts. Let's use Peter Brock for example. If P. Brock competed in a race with the caliber and prestige of the Sunday Cup or Clubman Cup, the atmosphere wouldn't be all that interesting. One would see a lot of empty seats and grandstands. You may find a few people cheering for the action on tap and listen to the PA announcer calling the action. The atmosphere wouldn't be as interesting because of all the entry-level competition, even with a very talented and accomplished racer like Peter Brock. But let's say Peter Brock raced in a series with the caliber and prestige of the Gran Turismo World Championship or the Grand Valley 300km. The atmosphere would be similar to a high-profile English Premier League game. You know, Manchester United vs. Arsenal (who recently defeated Villareal in aggregate scoring, so good job). Bigger races breed bigger crowds. The competition is exceptional in the higher series. Fans are more active in bigger series. So the races would be understandably better from an atmosphere perspective.

Done right, the feeling of atmosphere can provide an exciting experience by adding depth and importance to races. You know a race is prestigious when a number of fans can't wait for a race that is sure to be a modern classic. Many people are passionate about motorsports in their own way. Look at American fans cheer on their favorite NASCAR teams almost religiously. Listen to all the blow horns most European fans use to cheer on their favorite driver. Oh, and not to mention the waving flags and huge banners. Japanese fans are crazy themselves. They love Super GT about as much as America loves NASCAR. Every fan is crazy for racing on any level. Bringing that perspective into focus will only provide for better and more interesting races. This would really benefit an A1 Grand Prix deal whereas it's an Olympics of racing. A1GP may not be possible in GT5, but imagine all the American fans behind and American driver going up against international competition. You get the picture.

Let me get YOUR picture by adding more to this thread.

 

[Tenacious D]

A few of us are asking for A.I. racers with identities and racing characteristics, so having a "home town favorite" is an interesting idea. That tidbit about what Jeff Gordon went through is part of the reason I don't watch Nascar, plus the fact that oval racing is just blah. Turn left, draft, turn left, draft... yeah.

Another thing I'd like to see is proper doppler effects from the environments. Like going past the stands with crowd noise and airhorns, you should hear them drop in pitch as you zoom past at 100+mph.

 

[TheCracker]

This is a very interesting point John 👍

- i've always thought that racing in the GT series has been what i can only describe as a 'lonely experience' and i suppose a lack of 'atmosphere' sums it up best.

In GT you pick your car, pick your event or track, sit in your car whilst the clock ticks down then begin your race. You don't get the feeling that you are actually taking part in a organised public event - it's more like a private race between a group of anomynous drivers. An event like one of the races at Le Mans, even with the grandstands full of spectators, it feels too empty, more like a badly attended club race than a International Sports Car meeting at one of the most famous circuits in the world.

I think having 'working' corner marshalls will make a real difference as will the pit crews that we already know will feature in GT5. Officials guiding cars to their start point on the grid would be a realistic addition on standing start races and a pace car pealing off into the pit lane at the beginning of a rolling start would be a nice touch.

Grid girls and mechanics on the track before a race would be a good 'human element' but i fear this would greatly lengthen the gap between selecting a race and actually starting the race - this is already a bit of a bug-bear for me anyway. A way around this would be to feature a animated start grid in the background of the pre-race screen that shows you the grid positions and lets you alter your settings etc.

As for crowds cheering - you could feature this before the race, but i can tell you, with a balaclava, ear plugs and a full face helmet on in a race car - you ain't going to hear anything other than engine or transmition noise.

 

[Dave A]

My idea for having the cars coming out of the pits etc, wasn't to be shown after you select start race, but in the background of the pre-race menu screen, at the moment you see a bit of the tracks and you see the race start, instead of that, see the race being set up, ready to start. that way, it doesn't increase the time it takes to start the race, but I think it could certainly add to the atmosphere. It could be a different scene for the pre-qualifying, to the pre-race, that's if PD go back to having a proper qualifying session (which I think they should do), the pre-qualifying could be the camera talking a tour of the pit's and so on, the per-race would be the car's lining up on the grid getting ready for the race start with the drivers getting strapped in (cue the racing babes Tenacious) and so on.

Mid race I think most of what John said makes sense, having the way the race is spectated cghange depending on what the event is and so on would be cool, you could have very few fans spectating at the sunday league races, but at the GT World championship all the stands should be full, crowds going wild and so on. I know in the car you won't hear them, but the crowds should be there and animated more, and race marshals etc.

 

[TheCracker]

I think TRD3's (all the TRD's actually) offer a better atmosphere with their pit/paddock cut scenes and general pit sounds. I'm not suggesting cut scenes in GranTurismo, its just not their style, but a few reving engines and air-tools on the pre-race screen would certainly add to the atmosphere.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm game. I don't mind playing goodguy, or badguy. (Imagine the boos if you won a race at Darlington in a French car...XD) A bit more atmosphere would be nice in this game. There was that absolutely mesmerizing ferris wheel on SS Rt. 11 in GT3, stuff like that would be cool, too.

also, how about a victory celebration after the race? You get 1 lap. all aids turned off. all damage turned off. do doughnuts, drift, do a Polish victory lap. Climb out of your car and get on the fence. (If it's safe to do so where you are...) Whatever!

 

[Dimitrov]

I'm game. I don't mind playing goodguy, or badguy. (Imagine the boos if you won a race at Darlington in a French car...XD) A bit more atmosphere would be nice in this game. There was that absolutely mesmerizing ferris wheel on SS Rt. 11 in GT3, stuff like that would be cool, too.

also, how about a victory celebration after the race? You get 1 lap. all aids turned off. all damage turned off. do doughnuts, drift, do a Polish victory lap. Climb out of your car and get on the fence. (If it's safe to do so where you are...) Whatever!

Cool, except for the get on the fence stuff. Way too american.

 

[Jim Prower]

Cool, except for the get on the fence stuff. Way too american.

Sure, considering a CART driver form somewhere in South America started that trend....XP

but, i'm glad you like the rest of the idea.

 

[Dimitrov]

Sure, considering a CART driver form somewhere in South America started that trend....XP

but, i'm glad you like the rest of the idea.

Yes. Our own "Spider-man"

 

[Vio]

Yes. Our own "Spider-man"

And he conquered Indy, too. The only Spiderman to climb Indy's fences!

Ahem, anyway ... i would love to see a bit more atmosphere in GT5.
If you are familiar with the ALMS/Le Mans-patches for F1 Challenge 99-02, this game makes it right as far as day-night-racing is concerned. You'll notice that it gets darker and the cars start to turn their lights on, there is a helicopter (most propably a TV one) flying above the track and you are in there, racing up to 40 cars.

Now if only there would be a crowd cheering for their "local" drivers, that would be an awesome thing to be in a racing-game. I wouldn't go as far as to request marshalls (they would take up way too much power i.m.o.) but a bit more atmosphere along with different drivers you'll get to know would make for some great racing.

Imagine you'll start a GT World Championship and you'll be in there as a rookie, meeting all the "Pro"-drivers which expect you to give way when overtaking (yes, i would love to see a Le Mans-like/SuperGT grid where different classes race at the same time and there is always something to do...) ... and if you'll block them in a race by accident, they'll go side-by-side with you, being angry and stuff ...

Something i would love to see is the night-atmosphere at Le Mans, featuring the ferris wheel as well as damaged cars going along the track under yellow in order to get to the pits, make some pitstops go wrong from time to time (maybe depending on which car you drive - the Audi-pitcrew will do better work than the Welter Racing-crew) and add some racing-drama ... that would make for some great racing.

Of course there should be an possibility to switch off that "odd" stuff - I can imagine that some people would be pissed off very much if they are taken out of the race after 20 hours when lapping a GT2-Porsche .... but I would love it after being angry in the first moment. That would really feel like racing.


Aside from that: Gridgirls? - yeah !
It would be cool to be able to drive the first lap out of the pits to get to the grid like they do in F1 for example ... the AI would do the way up to the grid position some 400 metres away from it in order to prevent some guys crashing into the cars on the grid, but it would feel more like "racing", too ...

 

[Niels]

Yep, it would certainly make GT much more unique. I wonder how many of these suggestions they could put in. Realistic physics, track atmosphere, better AI, I wonder if the PS3 could handle that together with better graphics.

 

[JohnBM01]

Climbing the fence is actually a Brazilian thing with Helio Castroneves. Tony Stewart (also known as "Smoke") thinks his version is cooler, but actually isn't.

Grid girls? It would probably be a great idea to either make your own (probably not going to happen), or you can "draft" or "recruit" grid girls from around the world. I may be American, but I'd only want hotties like the JGTC/Super GT race queens. Many of them are about as popular as the racers in the series! I think something similar to Tourist Trophy's riding clothes selection would have to work for the race queens. So you would be in charge of picking as many outfit types ranging from short dress-tall platform boots to bikini top-hot pants-leg warmers-high-heel sandals. That's only as long as things don't end up being like "Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball" or the Japan-only... well, let's say a popular Japanese game that takes place on a beach with 3D-rendered ladies.

(clears throat) Moving on...

An example of atmosphere can be found within sportscar racing. Many drunk college students know what Spring Break is all about. But many sportscar enthusiasts know that where there's Spring Break, there's the 12 Hours of Sebring. It all takes place in a happenin' state with great competition- Sebring, FL. Daytime is good, but there are some party animals at night. I can remember my taping of last year's 24 Hours of Le Mans. In a rather small building past the Start-Finish line, there were some people partying like crazy with neon green lights inside and stuff. The 24 Hours at the Nürburgring has some fans who love nighttime action. I remembered cars having these laser-emitting devices in the cars to have a little light show for all the fans while the cars were racing. Those little festivities make an otherwise lonely race course a bit more interesting. Think about night racing in regards to atmosphere of races. Even some low-level racing can be exciting heading into or in night. Why do you think most of us Americans are jacked about Saturday Night "short" track racing? Some really good things can happen when atmosphere and a heated race take place. A combination of both elements can make for a very interesting affair.

Project Gotham Racing 3 is sort of a preview of what future racing games could be like in terms of graphical quality and what you can do. There are 3D-spectators in the stands and stuff. PD would have to wonder how to come up with racing fans that are all rendered and stuff. There would also have to be quality animations PD can come up with when a fan is on TV or whatever. One last atmosphere example- you know on FOX when NASCAR is on and they have their "Crank it Up" feature? The announcers shut up as the NASCAR stars show their stuff on the track. I think Speed Channel still does the "Sounds of Speed" deal, which is similar. Only that you can hear an Audi R8 rip up the long backstretch of Sebring.

Carry on with your ideas of atmosphere.

 

[Wakeem]

Adding things like 'grid girls' would become too repetitive in the long run, and youd regret asking for it. There would have to be an AI system so advanced as to not make it appear so. All the atmosphere I want and that GT needs(realistically) at this point is swaying trees and real-time cloud movement and more smoke and marks from the tires.