Automakers Speak Out: You Shouldn't Work on Your Car

[Sanji Himura]

The automakers are seeking to limit who can make repairs on your daily driver. The Automakers lobby is lobbing the US Copyright Office into declaring the computer systems in modern cars as intellectual property under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, first passed in 1998, claiming that said computer systems are too advanced for consumers and independent mechanics to service.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1504_au..._stop_working_on_your_car_are_they_right.html

 

[Turbotwin01]

Sometimes you can trust yourself on the vehicle you own more simply because you care more than the guy at the dealer or mechanic shop. Your driving the car so you want it to be as good as can be, they want to send it off and make money (not that all mechanic shops and dealers are that way, but there is some that are).

I think I remember seeing a video somewhere someone bringing his car for service at a dealer and he had a dash camera installed and he found out that the were bouncing the engine off the rev limiter numerous times and revving the living hell out of it to "fix the issue" and of course that didn't sit to well with the owner.

Also the dealers don't always know the computer stuff either. My dad had some sensors fail on a dump truck and even they were confused about them. He ended up buying the sensors and fixing them himself.

 

[mustafur]

The automakers are seeking to limit who can make repairs on your daily driver. The Automakers lobby is lobbing the US Copyright Office into declaring the computer systems in modern cars as intellectual property under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, first passed in 1998, claiming that said computer systems are too advanced for consumers and independent mechanics to service.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1504_au..._stop_working_on_your_car_are_they_right.html

Only in america, if you don't like the laws just pay for them to be changed.


In my experience independent mechanics in general have significantly more knowledge on cars then the average dealer service centre mechanic.

But what would i know since i have worked in both.

 

[Darla Starch]

I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA.

But hey, gotta protect that IP....

 

[Robin]

Soon they will take the Apple approach and seal the engines with locks that only official dealers can open. The fact you can't even change a lightbulb today without taking half of the car apart shows how bad things have gotten and the more techy things get under the hood the less you will be able to do.

 

[mustafur]

Soon they will take the Apple approach and seal the engines with locks that only official dealers can open. The fact you can't even change a lightbulb today without taking half of the car apart shows how bad things have gotten and the more techy things get under the hood the less you will be able to do.

Even Samsung has gone that way with the new S6.

It's becoming a problem as they find new ways of making money.

 

[Northstar]

I could see their point if they were just trying to get people to stop putting different chips in the car to make it perform differently, but trying to stop all non-dealers from even touching the CPU just seems like an idiotic move.

Only in america, if you don't like the laws just pay for them to be changed.

If you think lobbying is limited to the U.S. you should be paying more attention to politics in Australia.

 

[mustafur]

If you think lobbying is limited to the U.S. you should be paying more attention to politics in Australia

I know its the case in most First world Democracies, but the US is at another level and its in front of everyone.

 

[Harry6784]

claiming that said computer systems are too advanced for consumers and independent mechanics to service.

 

[CTznOfTime]

This similar to making a rule to forbid people and everyone in between from cutting their own hair...for safety reason and to protect the hairstylist jobs...

And they charge whatever they want...

 

[Beeblebrox237]

*Checks prices for daily driveable Ford Model Ts*

 

[McLaren]

Making it "illegal" for anyone outside the authorized dealer networks to work on your car is a nice way to force consumers to have their cars serviced by & only by said networks. A quick, easy way to monopolize the service industry by claiming they are the only ones who should be working on the cars because they own the technology in them. Also a subtle way of making every new car sound like a lease since as Yahoo's article put it from the manufacturers, "that you, as an owner, don’t actually own your car. Rather, you’re sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology."

I highly doubt it'll gain any ground by telling buyers they're not allowed to work on something they just dumped $30,000-$100,000+ on.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

It can all be explained with one word: Capitalism. If companies and manufacturers notice that they can get profit from something, they will do just that, customers and third parties be damned.

 

[05XR8]

Like people really care about opening the bonnet. Most car buyers only want to keep that 'W' word in the tip of their tongue for anything and everything about the car they're making payments on.

 

[Famine]

It can all be explained with one word: Capitalism.

That's not the word you're looking for - capitalism doesn't involve passing laws to protect business interests.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

That's not the word you're looking for - capitalism doesn't involve passing laws to protect business interests.

Well yeah, I suppose I could've added lobbying in there too..

 

[Famine]

Well yeah, I suppose I could've added lobbying in there too..

"Cronyism" is the right word - it's not exclusive to the fiscally right-wing (capitalist) either. Indeed this sort of proposal - 'we must protect people from their own incompetence and not allow them to work on their own cars' - is more akin to left-leaning ideals of regulation.

We have a poster-child for banning people from DIYing cars in the UK - a chap who bodged the brakes on his Land Rover and stuffed it into a lake, with all of his children drowning as a result.

 

[05XR8]

Soon they will take the Apple approach and seal the engines with locks that only official dealers can open. The fact you can't even change a lightbulb today without taking half of the car apart shows how bad things have gotten and the more techy things get under the hood the less you will be able to do.

It's almost that way with software. Iphone 5S & 6 is stuffing up a certain car maker's Sat Nav. There is no solution and may never be, as it only pertains to newer Apple phones that are updated to latest software.

Owners have to also be wary of recalls. There are bulletins and updates that aren't performed until it's too late, if the car is serviced by a local mechanic. Let something go wrong on a car that has never seen a recommended service schedule. It might be better to take a loan out on a 1971 Buick GSX.
Sometimes I believe Castro had the car industry done right in Cuba.

 

[Slash]

Soon they will take the Apple approach and seal the engines with locks that only official dealers can open. The fact you can't even change a lightbulb today without taking half of the car apart shows how bad things have gotten and the more techy things get under the hood the less you will be able to do.

This is why I hate modern vehicles. Well, at least one of the biggest reasons.

 

[05XR8]

This is why I hate modern vehicles. Well, at least one of the biggest reasons.

Well, get ready for this. Mazda Australia are working on tech that checks and clears codes and fixes your car real time, when a sensor goes off. So, when a check engine light, or flashing cruise light and /or TCS light come on, the car will send a signal via satellite straight to the dealer. The dealer will then notify the customer if all is well. The dealer will then clLear codes if possible or advise the customer next course of action.

There are still privacy acts and trials to be worked out, but Mazda Australia are working on it.

Then, tech is also in the works to tell the customer when service is due. Just like a Mercedes and other high end cars. I believe Audi do this too. It is more than just the spanner set at a certain interval. The computer will take into account how many kms and date of last service to adjust the times when it anticipates the next service due.This will be in low end cars , not just high end cars.

 

[Slash]

Well, get ready for this. Mazda Australia are working on tech that checks and clears codes and fixes your car real time, when a sensor goes off. So, when a check engine light, or flashing cruise light and /or TCS light come on, the car will send a signal via satellite straight to the dealer. The dealer will then notify the customer if all is well. The dealer will then clLear codes if possible or advise the customer next course of action.

There are still privacy acts and trials to be worked out, but Mazda Australia are working on it.

Then, tech is also in the works to tell the customer when service is due. Just like a Mercedes and other high end cars. I believe Audi do this too. It is more than just the spanner set at a certain interval. The computer will take into account how many kms and date of last service to adjust the times when it anticipates the next service due.This will be in low end cars , not just high end cars.

This just takes away the fun of it all,a t least for me. While I can see the convenience of it it's just not something I'd enjoy in a vehicle. Maybe that's just the enthusiast talking.

 

[Mikeybc]

The last thing I want is a dealership knowing what's going on with my car, just another way to get me in the shop and charge me ludicrous prices for simple maintenance.

 

[Anathema]

Rust repair/removal is something I don't trust myself to do, simply because I don't have the experience with it, any of the tools needed, and whatnot. I'm fine with taking a car to a fabrication shop to do that.

But, other, basic work, like changing the spark plugs/oil filter? I'd be damned if I'd take my car to a shop to do that because I have the physical capabilities to do the work.

 

[CodeRedR51]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/27/copyright-dmca-gearheads-can-repair-modify-cars/

In a long-awaited ruling announced Tuesday morning, the US Copyright Office granted an exemption in copyright law that permits gearheads and home mechanics to continue repairing and modifying their cars without running afoul of existing copyright law. Though it comes with a few caveats, the decision was a victory for car enthusiasts and vehicle owners, who could have otherwise been legally prohibited from accessing software that controls almost every vehicle function on modern cars.

So I wonder if this "accessing software that controls vehicle functions" means tuning the ECU would be prohibited?

 

[Kent]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/27/copyright-dmca-gearheads-can-repair-modify-cars/



So I wonder if this "accessing software that controls vehicle functions" means tuning the ECU would be prohibited?

I'd be willing to bet ECU tuning would be prohibited.
This is an increasingly common issue with tuners at the moment. Companies like Dinan are already working on ways to just pull the original ECU and put in their own unit (in turn avoiding the complexity of trying to hack the original ECU).

I doubt this issue will get too far on a legal level, it is hard to limit an owner's rights to property use.

Now with that said, voiding a warranty is (imho) a totally different matter and in many cases we already have standards of what sort of "work" you can do on a car without voiding the warranty.
In fact, I'd bet that some work you can do safely is still capable of voiding the warranty (such as an oil change when you forget to put the plug back in and run zero oil until failure).

 

[05XR8]

Many people just don't understand the word warranty. Something as small as putting those liquid air fresheners in the vents is trouble. How many cars I've seen come in and the vent is starting to melt because the heat is tarnishing the vent itself. People still using Armor all on their dashboards ruining the material.

A lady dropped her car off because the coolant light on her petrol CX-5 was flashing blue then red then, blue. Instead of towing the car, she drives it for a couple days. Popping the bonnet in the workshop and there is coolant all over. Now, it needs a new engine and she's a month past warranty(it'll get covered as per goodwill).

In regards to a qualified tech working on his own car. An Mazda6 MPS(Mazdaspeed6) owner tuned his car. Bigger turbo, three point boost controller. Brings it to the workshop and wants us to fix the idle becaue, it drops slowly from 3000rpm to 2000rpm. Then says the idle can't be tuned. He changes the tune back to stock and the problem miraculously doesn't happen.

Funny. When someone gets their mechanic to do all the work and their mechanic tell them, "oh, get this fixed under your warranty." Makes me laugh.

I say, if ou're going to touch it, don't bother seeing a dealer if something goes wrong the owner can't fix.

 

[guywithanAE86]

Man, my car's so old, it barely has an ECU! That article's totally a load if you ask me. If you know the car you spent years researching, learning, and building, you should darn well be qualified to work on it. Especially for us tuner guys, nobody understands our own car better than the guys who built it.

Even then, does that mean mechanical work is gonna be outlawed next? Eventually it might be illegal to change our tires on the side of the road because we aren't allowed to do anything to our cars. Only the U.S. could be so paranoid about losing a buck.

Crazy, man. I just wanna drive my car and proudly proclaim I do my own work on it.

 

[Turbotwin01]

Well I guess third party/ma & pa mechanic shops will soon be dead. Not to mention ECU tuning, even if we have permission to modift it we may have no way to dig into it other than taking it to the dealer who will be told not to do it. It is a win but not a complete one.

Also figures GM and John Deere were the 2 biggest dickheads in this case saying we didn't own the software at all.

If we can't modify our vehicles in the future remind me to start an underground tuning community. You are all invited.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Soon they will take the Apple approach and seal the engines with locks that only official dealers can open. The fact you can't even change a lightbulb today without taking half of the car apart shows how bad things have gotten and the more techy things get under the hood the less you will be able to do.

Porsche does that

 

[05XR8]

And all those cars that got crushed for cash by their owners. All part of the grand scheme. Damn shame.