Best Car 2008 Series : The R8 Takes It!

[TheCracker]

Possible Round 3:
GT-R vs R8: I can see this one descending into the bowels of argument. Then again, I predict all the threads involving the GT-R doing that, but with two heavy, four-wheel-drive, technologically advanced vehicles going at it, no-one ever knows. and who knows, it might be that the fanboy protection brigade votes the Exige through, instead.

The R8 needs to beat the Koenigsegg in the 1st round first.

 

[Jim Prower]

Strangely enough, unless every 13-year-old on the forums comes to vote, I don't see the excessively expensive and relatively impractical Koenigsegg beating the Audi.

 

[TheCracker]

They still cover the same turf. Only difference is, one is 99.5% out of all our reach where as the other is 99.9% out of all our reach - and the Koenigsegg has way cooler doors.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think I'm going to keep it as-is. No matter where you move some of the cars, we're likely to end up with fairly similar results. Most of the battles are by any stretch of the word "fair," and if we can all vote with our heads, I think we could see some major upsets. Maybe.

Shall we begin? We shall!

 

[Moglet]

Come on 500, you can do it!

 

[exigeracer]

Good tough opener, but I predict some barn-burners.

I'm also banking on some anti-fanboyism strategic voting to take down the juggernauts. Let's make it interesting! It isn't only about the vote, some interesting discourse sprouts from the threads' content that is worth participating in!!!

 

[High-Test]

Ooh! Final round in KC!? Can i plzs has tickets?

This will be interesting.

 

[Speedster502]

Maybe if we give it a cooler picture then the last poll... like THIS. Fanboys are usually n00bs, so appearance is everything.

That's funny...It looks like a Vauxhall VXR8. No thank you...I think there are some more deserving cars in this competition than a Holden. Sorry, just my 2 cents.

 

[Moglet]

That's funny...It looks like a Vauxhall VXR8.

Well......yeah.

 

[Speedster502]

Well......yeah.

Yeah I know, but to me because I saw it as a Vauxhall before seeing it a Holden/What ever else it's made as. So, to me it's always been a Vauxhall, that kind of ruins it's reputation in my opinion.

(Hides Behind Bomb Shelter)

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Largest fan based in the world? Are we talking about the same automotive company?

Also the more heritage comment is rather funny since it's going up against cars like the Fiat 500, Nissan GT-R, and Chevy Corvette...all cars with a ton of heritage behind them.

One of the largest fan bases in the world, not the largest fan base in the world. It's also going up against cars like the R8 and Koeniggseggiggseggegegeg, which have no heritage at all. Did I also mention that until GT4 nobody knew or cared what a 500 is, and if it weren't for the new one, millions still wouldn't. I don't expect you to know anything about Holden's history, in the same way I can't tell you a single fact about Ferrari racing apart from Schumacher, nor many millions of Aussies, or Asians, or Americans could. The only GT-R heritage I know of is the Australian Touring Cars of old, just because you know something on your continent, doesn't mean every other continent knows it too.

You want world's biggest fanbase? tell me, What color tends to fill stands at any Formula 1 racetrack?

That's right. Red. Ferrari Red. It's funny how popular a manufacturer almost nobody can afford can be. (It's also funny how on this forum of automotive enthusiasts, no Ferrari made it onto the bracket.)

Besides, for as many Holden fans as there are in Australia, there's almost NONE in the U.S, Europe, or Asia. Why? You can't get a Holden. Sure, you can get a Vauxhall, or a Pontiac, or even a Chevrolet. But no actual Holden.

Spend a day in an Australian public place, you will see someone wearing a Holden shirt, probably many times. I have never seen someone wearing a Ferrari shirt, because in Australia it's not as popular.

I think I'm going to have to agree with Jim on this one, Ferrari more than likely has the world's largest fan base and probably the most heritage too.

To sum up, just because you guys don't know it, and only Australians do, it doesn't mean that Holden doesn't have heritage. I think that classic Aussie cars selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars would help my case here, let alone the race history and cultural history.

I'm gonna just come out and say it: The Holden is ugly. It looks like it's been hit in the face with something very blunt. I understand it's great value for money, and very quick, and can give Euro and American saloons a bloody nose, but the whole 'sledgehammer' approach doesn't really appeal to me. I respect it as a great car, but I can never love it, so the Megane will be getting my vote in that bracket. I've been a fan of French hot hatches as long as I can remember so the ultimate French hot hatch will get my vote.

As for whoever mentioned the FAW, I would consider voting for it but in the end the Caddy will get my vote as I do kinda like it. As good a Chinese car the Vita is, it still isn't as good as one of the top saloons the States has to offer.

You can't state the Holden is ugly like it's fact, because IMO it's one of the best looking cars on the market today, and I find the GT-R ugly, the Audi R8 boring, and the Fiat 500 lame. I don't state it like it's fact though, so you can't do the same.

Yeah I know, but to me because I saw it as a Vauxhall before seeing it a Holden/What ever else it's made as. So, to me it's always been a Vauxhall, that kind of ruins it's reputation in my opinion.

(Hides Behind Bomb Shelter)

*Throws Grenade*

So basically you don't care much for cars? Because I can't think of any instance where I have made that kind of mistake.

 

[eiriksmil]

GT-R will win, democracy is overrated.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

GT-R will win, democracy is overrated.

I sure hope not.

 

[Famine]

Important point first:

just because you know something on your continent, doesn't mean every other continent knows it too.

Keeping that in mind, nd:

One of the largest fan bases in the world, not the largest fan base in the world.

Holden has one of the largest fan bases in Australia, not the world. The simple fact that they are limited to just one country counts against their worldwide fanbase. Sure, there'll be pockets of Holden appreciators in other countries - the UK saw some limited imports of the 2-generations-ago Holden Monaro and we get your last-generation Holden Monaro rebadged as the Vauxhall Monaro - but otherwise you're talking about a fanbase where the majority of members are from a country with about the same population as New York. New. York.

For reference, if everyone in Australia loved Holdens, it'd still be less popular than a car only sold in the US that only one in ten people liked. Like the Corvette.

It's also going up against cars like the R8 and Koeniggseggiggseggegegeg, which have no heritage at all.

Agreed with regards to the Swede, but the R8 is an Audi. Their racing heritage is immense - and they currently hold what appears to be an unbreakable grasp on Le Mans (five of their eight wins coming in a car called... "R8").

Did I also mention that until GT4 nobody knew or cared what a 500 is, and if it weren't for the new one, millions still wouldn't.

On your continent. In Western Europe (population 20 times greater than Australia), the car is as famous as the original Mini.

I don't expect you to know anything about Holden's history, in the same way I can't tell you a single fact about Ferrari racing apart from Schumacher, nor many millions of Aussies, or Asians, or Americans could.

That you know millions of Aussies don't know anything about Ferrari aside from Schumacher is... somewhat of a stretch. That you know the same of "Asians" and Americans is implausible in the extreme.


Reiterating the first line I quoted:

just because you know something on your continent, doesn't mean every other continent knows it too.

You then type this and expect it to appear as reasonable defence for your position:

Spend a day in an Australian public place, you will see someone wearing a Holden shirt, probably many times. I have never seen someone wearing a Ferrari shirt, because in Australia it's not as popular.

Put simply, Holden's appeal is almost exclusive to Australia. Ferrari's appeal is worldwide. This alone should tell you that putting Holden as having one of the biggest fanbases in the world is absolute nonsense.

You get a bunch of motorsport enthusiasts together to talk and Holden will be in there somewhere. But unless they're Aussies, it won't be the very first topic.

To sum up, just because you guys don't know it, and only Australians do, it doesn't mean that Holden doesn't have heritage. I think that classic Aussie cars selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars would help my case here, let alone the race history and cultural history.

I don't think anyone claimed Holden isn't popular or has motorsport heritage, in Australia. To do so would be folly. But they can hardly be described as one of the most popular brands on Earth when their maximum consumer base is 21 million people.

You can't state the Holden is ugly like it's fact.

He can, subjectively so. If a billion people disagee, it doesn't invalidate his position because it is not objective.

So basically you don't care much for cars? Because I can't think of any instance where I have made that kind of mistake.

The car you posted is sold in the UK as the Vauxhall VXR8. I'm not sure why this means you've made a mistake and Speedster doesn't care much for cars.

For reference, it's regarded as one of the best mainstream cars with a British badge.

 

[Jay]

As a Australian, I do not care much for the W427, I also think it is ugly among other things. Also I do not agree with much of what nd 4 holden spd is saying, thats his opinion, but...

Please nd 4 holden speed speak for yourself, not for 'aussies' in general.

 

[JacoJa]

I'm enjoying this little debate... but I'd like to keep out of it. All I can say is, the Commodore is a brilliant car. I've driven my dad's 6.0L V8 SS-V, and it's fantastic... especially for the price. A real bargain.

Did I also mention that until GT4 nobody knew or cared what a 500 is, and if it weren't for the new one, millions still wouldn't.

This was a bit of an odd comment though. I thought everyone knew what a Fiat 500 was, even before GT4. They were incredibly popular cars. Not in Australia obviously... but everyone still knows what they are.

 

[Jay]

This was a bit of an odd comment though. I thought everyone knew what a Fiat 500 was, even before GT4. They were incredibly popular cars. Not in Australia obviously... but everyone still knows what they are.

Indeed, quite a lot of 500's were sold here, I still see them time to time.

My father used to drive one briefly well before my time.

 

[eiriksmil]

Man I love fanboys. Keep it up Holden-boy, you give me a laugh

 

[Joey D]

Famine covered some of this but since you directed your comments at me I will respond.

It's also going up against cars like the R8 and Koeniggseggiggseggegegeg, which have no heritage at all. Did I also mention that until GT4 nobody knew or cared what a 500 is, and if it weren't for the new one, millions still wouldn't....The only GT-R heritage I know of is the Australian Touring Cars of old

The Fiat 500 has as much heritage as the Mini/MINI combo, and that is quite a bit. People knew what the 500 before GT4, especially service men from America that were in Europe. My dad owned three when he lived in Germany and Italy along with a BMW Isetta and a VW Beetle. There is still a big following of 500's in America and show up a class European car meet and there will be several.

This unlike the GT-R which can be said was helped by video games with bring it to the attention of many Americans. GT-R has quite a bit of heritage though even though it never came to the American shores.

I don't expect you to know anything about Holden's history, in the same way I can't tell you a single fact about Ferrari racing apart from Schumacher, nor many millions of Aussies, or Asians, or Americans could.

I can't speak for everyone, unlike you who seems that they can, but many Americans I know can tell you something about Ferrari's racing history even if it's just a "they are good". I always see people wearing the familiar red colour. If there is a Le Mans race on typically people ask me, "Is a Ferrari winning?"

just because you know something on your continent, doesn't mean every other continent knows it too.

Really? Really? Please post by your own statements.

To sum up, just because you guys don't know it, and only Australians do, it doesn't mean that Holden doesn't have heritage. I think that classic Aussie cars selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars would help my case here, let alone the race history and cultural history.

Classic Ferrari's sell for millions world wide. Actually the world's most expensive car is a €7,040,000 1961 Ferrari 250 GT (Source). Hell classic American cars sell for hundreds of thousands as well. What is your point?

Much of the world didn't know about Holdens before GM started to badged engineer them out to different companies around the globe. I honestly can't see them being to terribly successful either. The Pontiac GTO sort of flopped here and the Pontiac G8 will probably do a similar thing. I can't speak for Europe but when I was in England I never once saw a Vauxhall version.

I still support Jim when he said Ferrari has the most heritage out of any automotive manufacturer.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Important point first:



Keeping that in mind, nd:



Holden has one of the largest fan bases in Australia, not the world. The simple fact that they are limited to just one country counts against their worldwide fanbase. Sure, there'll be pockets of Holden appreciators in other countries - the UK saw some limited imports of the 2-generations-ago Holden Monaro and we get your last-generation Holden Monaro rebadged as the Vauxhall Monaro - but otherwise you're talking about a fanbase where the majority of members are from a country with about the same population as New York. New. York.

For reference, if everyone in Australia loved Holdens, it'd still be less popular than a car only sold in the US that only one in ten people liked. Like the Corvette.



Agreed with regards to the Swede, but the R8 is an Audi. Their racing heritage is immense - and they currently hold what appears to be an unbreakable grasp on Le Mans (five of their eight wins coming in a car called... "R8").



On your continent. In Western Europe (population 20 times greater than Australia), the car is as famous as the original Mini.



That you know millions of Aussies don't know anything about Ferrari aside from Schumacher is... somewhat of a stretch. That you know the same of "Asians" and Americans is implausible in the extreme.


Reiterating the first line I quoted:



You then type this and expect it to appear as reasonable defence for your position:



Put simply, Holden's appeal is almost exclusive to Australia. Ferrari's appeal is worldwide. This alone should tell you that putting Holden as having one of the biggest fanbases in the world is absolute nonsense.

You get a bunch of motorsport enthusiasts together to talk and Holden will be in there somewhere. But unless they're Aussies, it won't be the very first topic.



I don't think anyone claimed Holden isn't popular or has motorsport heritage, in Australia. To do so would be folly. But they can hardly be described as one of the most popular brands on Earth when their maximum consumer base is 21 million people.



He can, subjectively so. If a billion people disagee, it doesn't invalidate his position because it is not objective.



The car you posted is sold in the UK as the Vauxhall VXR8. I'm not sure why this means you've made a mistake and Speedster doesn't care much for cars.

For reference, it's regarded as one of the best mainstream cars with a British badge.

As a percentage then, in Australia it's entirely possible a higher percentage of the population like Holdens then many other brands can boast overseas, and surely that says something. Have you seen the crowds at V8 Supercar events? I don't need to know them personally that there are 1000s upon 1000s of people at every one waving Holden flags.
I said Speedster made a mistake because he said he never knew it was actually a Holden, thinking it was all Vauxhall.
By the way, what percentage of Americans do you suppose are rednecks? How many of those rednecks do you think know anything about Ferrari? Anyone can know they're good, but to know actual historical facts is what I meant, and I did just remember I know one fact about the GT-R, and that it dominated JGTC winning most seasons in was it R34 guise? And now the R35 is doing the same. And I read loads of auto news, compared to most people who might not.

As a Australian, I do not care much for the W427, I also think it is ugly among other things. Also I do not agree with much of what nd 4 holden spd is saying, thats his opinion, but...

Please nd 4 holden speed speak for yourself, not for 'aussies' in general.

No, you speak for your self Nissman (Nissan man). I tell you what, I'll go around asking as many people as possible tomorrow that I can find if they knew what a Fiat 500 was before the new model. You can't speak for most Aussies either.

I'm enjoying this little debate... but I'd like to keep out of it. All I can say is, the Commodore is a brilliant car. I've driven my dad's 6.0L V8 SS-V, and it's fantastic... especially for the price. A real bargain.

This was a bit of an odd comment though. I thought everyone knew what a Fiat 500 was, even before GT4. They were incredibly popular cars. Not in Australia obviously... but everyone still knows what they are.

Like I said, I'll ask as many people as possible tomorrow if they know what the 500 is. I know I certainly never knew it before GT4, my friends didn't.

Indeed, quite a lot of 500's were sold here, I still see them time to time.

My father used to drive one briefly well before my time.

Never seen one myself, the fact your father drove one probably shows most people you know would remember what a Fiat 500 is, so your opinion on that one for me just went down the drain, good bye.

Man I love fanboys. Keep it up Holden-boy, you give me a laugh

Man, you have no clue what you're saying. I'm merely defending the car I like. If you had some backbone you'd do the same, instead you shamefully throw lame insults like this.

Famine covered some of this but since you directed your comments at me I will respond.



The Fiat 500 has as much heritage as the Mini/MINI combo, and that is quite a bit. People knew what the 500 before GT4, especially service men from America that were in Europe. My dad owned three when he lived in Germany and Italy along with a BMW Isetta and a VW Beetle. There is still a big following of 500's in America and show up a class European car meet and there will be several.

This unlike the GT-R which can be said was helped by video games with bring it to the attention of many Americans. GT-R has quite a bit of heritage though even though it never came to the American shores.



I can't speak for everyone, unlike you who seems that they can, but many Americans I know can tell you something about Ferrari's racing history even if it's just a "they are good". I always see people wearing the familiar red colour. If there is a Le Mans race on typically people ask me, "Is a Ferrari winning?"



Really? Really? Please post by your own statements.



Classic Ferrari's sell for millions world wide. Actually the world's most expensive car is a €7,040,000 1961 Ferrari 250 GT (Source). Hell classic American cars sell for hundreds of thousands as well. What is your point?

Much of the world didn't know about Holdens before GM started to badged engineer them out to different companies around the globe. I honestly can't see them being to terribly successful either. The Pontiac GTO sort of flopped here and the Pontiac G8 will probably do a similar thing. I can't speak for Europe but when I was in England I never once saw a Vauxhall version.

I still support Jim when he said Ferrari has the most heritage out of any automotive manufacturer.

Did I say that the 500 doesn't have heritage, I merely said it isn't well known here in Australia, same with the GT-R (although well known, their overseas racing history is not). I know also that classic Ferraris and muscle cars sell for very steep prices, because they have heritage as well, I was pointing out that Holden has heritage too.
Hah, the G8 will flop? That's a funny comment, everyone already knows how good it is. The only thing holding it back is fuel prices, shame.
I also never said that Holden has more heritage than Ferrari, especially because there aren't any Ferraris in the competition.
Every time I post something about Holden you all go ZOMG he thinks Holden is the best car in the world, I should attack him. Damn guys, how about cutting me some slack once in a while, I know full well the extent of the automotive industry, I'm not silly enough to think Holden is the best out there, doesn't stop them from being my favourite though.

 

[Jay]

No, you speak for your self Nissman (Nissan man). I tell you what, I'll go around asking as many people as possible tomorrow that I can find if they knew what a Fiat 500 was before the new model. You can't speak for most Aussies either.

Call me what you want, but yes like you I cannot speak for everyone either.

Never seen one myself, the fact your father drove one probably shows most people you know would remember what a Fiat 500 is, so your opinion on that one for me just went down the drain, good bye.

My opinion went down the drain because I know people that know what a Fiat 500 is? Whats with the attitude?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Call me what you want, but yes like you I cannot speak for everyone either.




My opinion went down the drain because I know people that know what a Fiat 500 is? Whats with the attitude?

Err, firstly, Nissman wasn't an insult, but it does sound pretty funny.👍

Your opinion went down the drain because everyone you know would know what a 500 is because your father owned one, kind of a dead giveaway. Let's ask people who don't know someone who owned one, a car with heritage needs to have that affect, of people knowing what it is without ever even seeing one sometimes. Imagine some you knew owned a kit car that no one had ever heard of, well you and your mates would know what that car is because you know someone who owns it, see my point?

 

[Joey D]

Did I say that the 500 doesn't have heritage, I merely said it isn't well known here in Australia, same with the GT-R (although well known, their overseas racing history is not).

You made it sound like no one knew of the Fiat 500 before the release of GT4, if you meant to say "in Australia" you should have put that it your statement. Who are we to assume? And racing does not always equal heritage.

I know also that classic Ferraris and muscle cars sell for very steep prices, because they have heritage as well, I was pointing out that Holden has heritage too.

Price does not always equal heritage.

Hah, the G8 will flop? That's a funny comment, everyone already knows how good it is. The only thing holding it back is fuel prices, shame.

Everyone know? So you are tell me 6 billion people on planet earth pine for a Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore? I doubt that. People in Michigan, where if you don't own an American car people think you should be drawn and quartered, aren't even buying them. The local Pontiac dealership has at least 20 on the lot. They are becoming slightly more common but then again GM gave them to people to drive around.

I also never said that Holden has more heritage than Ferrari, especially because there aren't any Ferraris in the competition.

You certainly seemed like you implied it.

And so what if there aren't any Ferrari's in this competition, that still has nothing to do with their heritage.

Every time I post something about Holden you all go ZOMG he thinks Holden is the best car in the world, I should attack him. Damn guys, how about cutting me some slack once in a while, I know full well the extent of the automotive industry, I'm not silly enough to think Holden is the best out there, doesn't stop them from being my favourite though.

You honestly bring it on yourself. If you can't handle things like this maybe the internet isn't for you.

 

[Jay]

Err, firstly, Nissman wasn't an insult, but it does sound pretty funny.👍

I don't want to be called Nissman or Nissanman, as I respect many other manufacturers just as much.

I would remove my Viper name too if I hadn't had it so long (which cars I still like and respect). The Nissan Link is/was an attempt to reignite a dieing forum and I haven't bothered removing and haven't got anything to replace it with.

Your other point, would you hold a friend of yours (and people close to him) opinion void if you found out his father owned one? Thats how people know about cars in the end, someone has to have owned one.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You made it sound like no one knew of the Fiat 500 before the release of GT4, if you meant to say "in Australia" you should have put that it your statement. Who are we to assume? And racing does not always equal heritage.



Price does not always equal heritage.



Everyone know? So you are tell me 6 billion people on planet earth pine for a Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore? I doubt that. People in Michigan, where if you don't own an American car people think you should be drawn and quartered, aren't even buying them. The local Pontiac dealership has at least 20 on the lot. They are becoming slightly more common but then again GM gave them to people to drive around.



You certainly seemed like you implied it.

And so what if there aren't any Ferrari's in this competition, that still has nothing to do with their heritage.



You honestly bring it on yourself. If you can't handle things like this maybe the internet isn't for you.

Successful Racing == Heritage

Popularity == Heritage

Significance == Heritage

If it wasn't a popular car no one would pay big bucks for it, and if it did well in racing people will admire it for that. Sounds like heritage to me. It must have a rich and colourful history.

Everyone knows in America (when did the G8 having anything to do with the rest of the world?), who at least read reviews, because it's had nothing but praise in the press. If you honestly believe it's crap, then why am I called the fanboy? There is an anti-fanboy you know, when someone has an unexplainable hate for a car and does everything in their power to put it down. People aren't buying it because they can't afford it, that can not be helped. Doesn't mean it is a flop in terms of quality, but it might be a sales flop. TBH, when the world is made of people like you I don't care much for sales figures, they mean nothing, I look at the facts of a car.

You interpret what you want in what I say so you can find a reason to insult me, that should not be tolerated on GTP. Just because I stood up for my favourite car, that somehow means I brought insults upon myself?

Edit: @ VIPERGTSR01, I have never owned or even seen a Fiat 500 on the road yet I now know what it is, I've never seen a Hemi Cuda even on the road but I sure as hell know what that is. If a car was as popular in Australia as you say it was, people will know what it is. If I find lots of people knew someone who owned one the clearly it was a popular car, but your father owning one seems like a rare case to me.

Edit 2: People call me Holdenboy and fanboy, you think I want to be called those in an insulting manner? People do it anyway, and they never get in trouble.

 

[Jim Prower]

Honestly, your antics are reminding me of those used by a certain SEAT fan. Honestly never seen you like this, would appreciate everyone taking a step back and calming down.

 

[Joey D]

Successful Racing == Heritage

Popularity == Heritage

Significance == Heritage

If it wasn't a popular car no one would pay big bucks for it, and if it did well in racing people will admire it for that. Sounds like heritage to me. It must have a rich and colourful history.

If you'll go back and read what I wrote, I stated that it doesn't always mean heritage, which means it still can. Holden's only have heritage in Australia, outside that it doesn't really where as Ferrari's have heritage everywhere in the world.

Everyone knows in America (when did the G8 having anything to do with the rest of the world?), who at least read reviews, because it's had nothing but praise in the press.

Not everyone knows in America, there are 300 million people here and I'm willing to bet there are many who have no idea what the car is. When you said everyone I assumed everyone, not just Americans.

I read the reviews and I have sat in the car, I wasn't impressed. It felt cheap and uncomfortable. I'll probably drive one soon seeing as family friends have gotten them now as pool vehicles from GM.

If you honestly believe it's crap, then why am I called the fanboy? There is an anti-fanboy you know, when someone has an unexplainable hate for a car and does everything in their power to put it down.

I don't have an unexplained hate for the car, I thought I've made it clear why I don't like it. Same old cheap GM stuff that looks decent but falls short with quality.

People aren't buying it because they can't afford it, that can not be helped. Doesn't mean it is a flop in terms of quality, but it might be a sales flop. TBH, when the world is made of people like you I don't care much for sales figures, they mean nothing, I look at the facts of a car.

The G8 isn't expensive in anyway, shape, or form for a new car sold in America. It starts at about $28,000. People spend more on Camry's and Accords.

Oh and sales figures mean everything to the life of a car, if the manufacture is loosing money they will either redesign or scrap the car. This is what happened with the Camaro/Firebird, GTO, Blazer, S-10, etc.

Just because a car is good on paper doesn't make it good to own and live with everyday.

You interpret what you want in what I say so you can find a reason to insult me, that should not be tolerated on GTP. Just because I stood up for my favourite car, that somehow means I brought insults upon myself?

It's the way you do it to be honest. You seem very aggressive and fly off the handle when anyone says anything negative about Holden's.

Edit 2: People call me Holdenboy and fanboy, you think I want to be called those in an insulting manner? People do it anyway, and they never get in trouble.

Wait, didn't you call me an anti-fanboy?

 

[exigeracer]

Edit 2: People call me Holdenboy and fanboy, you think I want to be called those in an insulting manner? People do it anyway, and they never get in trouble.

It's the way you state things. I rarely post non-Lotus material here and have never once, not once been called a fanboy or any other derogatory name regarding my car preference. I've been here for over 5 years too. Take a small step back and re-read what you're typing, think about which fights are worth fighting. I can tell you right now that you've bitten off far more than you can chew.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

EDIT: Yikes extra page, disregard.

 

[Moglet]

Did I also mention that until GT4 nobody knew or cared what a 500 is, and if it weren't for the new one, millions still wouldn't.

I'm willing to bet that more people in the world would know what a Fiat 500 is over ANY Holden. Just because it's popular in Australia and there's a large following for them in sports, doesn't mean that the entire world knows about it.

Whereas Ferrari......well, yeah. How many Holdens have sold for millions at auctions around the world? Look at any classic car auction and you'll find heritage by the bucket load in the form of Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, and if you want to talk about the American market, you appear to be forgetting Ford. All of them have classics that sell for massive amounts, all of them have racing wins/history, all of them are widely known brands across the world, and if you don't think their models are significant you need to open your eyes.

I'm not saying Holden doesn't have a 'heritage' because it does, they used to produce the vehicle bodies for various manufacturers so without them who knows what might have happened, but heritage around the world in the same class as Mercedes or Ferrari? I don't think so.