Best way to increase a cars steering angle (reduce understeer)

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nib95

nib95

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NIBZY
Started kitting out my GT-R Black Edition, and almost everything about it is fantastic except that it seems to have a large degree of understeer. Just doesn't seem to turn nearly as sharply or quickly as I'd like it to.

Any tips as to how best to reduce understeer and improve the vehicles turning sharpness?

Steering sensitivity in options doesn't seem to help much. My guess is its going to have to be something in the tuning.

Any help would be appreciated!
 
I saw this flowchart while looking around these forums (I think it was for the "Ultimate GT5 Tuning Collection" or something along those lines) and thought I'd share it
UNDERSTEEFlowchart.gif
 
nib95
Started kitting out my GT-R Black Edition, and almost everything about it is fantastic except that it seems to have a large degree of understeer. Just doesn't seem to turn nearly as sharply or quickly as I'd like it to.

Any tips as to how best to reduce understeer and improve the vehicles turning sharpness?

Steering sensitivity in options doesn't seem to help much. My guess is its going to have to be something in the tuning.

Any help would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Softening the front end vs the rear end being stiffer should help. Haven't played enough with GT6 though to be sure it still works.
 
Swapping rear toe to the exact opposite and setting front toe to the value originally in the rear makes for much sharper turning.

There are however a number of things that you have to account for. Weight distribution (suspension and brakes), drivetrain (LSD), tires (again suspension and brakes) f ex.
 
Using front toe, although it can help turn-in in some cases, also induces high speed understeer, as well as high tyre wear through heating if you have tyre wear on. As a general rule, its best to avoid using it unless its with a low powered FR road car. Rear toe has a much larger effect on car behaviour anyway, as does weight distribution.
 
True that. Front toe has the most effect on cars with bigger front downforce, like LMP's and FGT's, and most effect on tight, twisty circuits.

A feature I miss in GT is caster angle, wich also is useful in those circumstances.
 
Some settings have a much bigger effect on a cars handling than others, and often what works in RL doesn't work the same way in the game.

Personally, once I have a balance I’m generally happy with (using spring and dampers), I tend to focus on rear toe and LSD to fine tune the handling more than any other settings.

As a starting point on AWD cars like the GT-R, I’d always start by setting front and rear LSD deccel to the minimum (assuming you have a fully customisable diff installed) as this will give you the most rotation possible from an LSD perspective.

Then I’d work on the accel settings to try and get a nice balance of pull/push between the front and rear on exits… also working on the torque split at the same time (if custom centre diff is installed).

After that, I’d start adding –ve rear toe gradually, balancing increasing turn in against any tendancy to oversteer on exits.

-ve front toe I find to be a bit misleading… it can make the car feel more responsive on turn in, but doesn’t always give more mid corner and exit grip.

Brake balance is also important if you trail brake – if the car pushes when trail braking reduce the front brake bias relative to the rear.

At the moment, ride height at least seems reversed in GT6 (as it was in GT5 before they patched it) – the cars have less understeer with a higher front ride height, which is counter intuitive vs RL. Haven’t properly tested if this applies to the other settings yet.
 
Actually, many racecars run a higher front rideheight IRL, since it allows for more air to flow through the diffuser, wich gives more downforce. I don't think this is implemented in GT6 though. It certainly wasn't in GT5.
 
Mt. Lynx
Actually, many racecars run a higher front rideheight IRL, since it allows for more air to flow through the diffuser, wich gives more downforce. I don't think this is implemented in GT6 though. It certainly wasn't in GT5.
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Really?

Obviously formula cars use a high nose (but a low wing), but for tin tops I thought you wanted to run the front as low as possible on a race car (hence tarmac kissing splitters) to create maximum pressure differential between air passing under the car and over the car?
 
Yes, IRL splitter cars (ie no front wing) you want to get the front ride height as low as possible to preserve the low pressure region under the car. The rear you want actually a little higher because this creates front-to-back rake and allows for the diffuser to work more efficiently. You do need to 'feed' the diffuser with air, but usually this is done via tunnels/ducts.
 
tuj
Yes, IRL splitter cars (ie no front wing) you want to get the front ride height as low as possible to preserve the low pressure region under the car. The rear you want actually a little higher because this creates front-to-back rake and allows for the diffuser to work more efficiently. You do need to 'feed' the diffuser with air, but usually this is done via tunnels/ducts.
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Thanks for confirming 👍
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To see what works in GT6, go view the replays of the top drivers in the latest seasonal at Tsukuba in the Lancia.

They are running maximum front ride height and minimum rear (a differential of c.90mm), which should cause understeer, but in fact helps front end grip :lol:

GT5 revisited :D
 
What spring rates are they running? I'm guessing they are using very stiff front springs?

I've never been able to figure out the tuning in the GT-series. For example, a street car should have more negative camber at the rear than the front, primarily as a safety feature. Even when I was actively autocrossing, an aggressive alignment on an RX-8 was -2 degrees up front, and -2.5 in back. Obviously a formula car will have much less camber in the rear and a stiff rear suspension to try to put down all that power.
 
I can't give exact settings as the tune I have access to is private, but the front spring rates are actually quite low @ <5.00.

Understand your point on camber settings... my 996 runs front 0.00 rear -1.50 (stock factory settings), partially as a safety measure, and partially to make rear tyre wear acceptable. Guys running track set ups on their GT3's are are typically using -2.50 -2.30 which is just about the max you can get on a GT3 without running cup suspension arms and top mounts (911's have a tendency to understeer, hence the high front number).

Of course in GT6, when time trialling, you don't need to have the safety element built in as there's no consequence to spinning - if you do spin, you just press re-set as you're only after that one super fast lap.

As it stands, I believe the suspension settings in GT6 are as they were in GT5 before they were patched - in so far as at least some front and rear settings are the wrong way round!
 
Stotty
I can't give exact settings as the tune I have access to is private, but the front spring rates are actually quite low @ <5.00.

Understand your point on camber settings... my 996 runs front 0.00 rear -1.50 (stock factory settings), partially as a safety measure, and partially to make rear tyre wear acceptable. Guys running track set ups on their GT3's are are typically using -2.50 -2.30 which is just about the max you can get on a GT3 without running cup suspension arms and top mounts (911's have a tendency to understeer, hence the high front number).

Of course in GT6, when time trialling, you don't need to have the safety element built in as there's no consequence to spinning - if you do spin, you just press re-set as you're only after that one super fast lap.

As it stands, I believe the suspension settings in GT6 are as they were in GT5 before they were patched - in so far as at least some front and rear settings are the wrong way round!
Click to expand...

If these settings are indeed flipped (again) then the game is starting to become bogus. I love GT, however I am starting to suspect the element of realism that initially drew me to the game is being slowly but surely compromised.
Starting with the sound which was originally close miked for each individual car, right down the tuning of cars.
Another large oversight is having splitters and other ground effects that have no value other than decoration.

Then PD considers those additions basis to bar a car based on the null values being considered a tune. Crazy.

Back on topic, what does level ride height and stiffer bound/re-bound on the front end do? I know I could run 2:00 flat at Bathurst if my Z4 GT3 was more stable after the turn at the end of the first long straight.
 
Blood*Specter
If these settings are indeed flipped (again) then the game is starting to become bogus. I love GT, however I am starting to suspect the element of realism that initially drew me to the game is being slowly but surely compromised.
Starting with the sound which was originally close miked for each individual car, right down the tuning of cars.
Another large oversight is having splitters and other ground effects that have no value other than decoration.

Then PD considers those additions basis to bar a car based on the null values being considered a tune. Crazy.

Back on topic, what does level ride height and stiffer bound/re-bound on the front end do? I know I could run 2:00 flat at Bathurst if my Z4 GT3 was more stable after the turn at the end of the first long straight.
Click to expand...
Settings have always been strange in the GT series. I remember when we tuned for top speed runs in GT4, and usually a high front, low rear and as soft springs as possible was the way to go. There was a glitch though, since if you wheelied, you could possibly do lightspeed and beyond :), so we outlawed wheelies.

PD have corrected a few things over the years though, like centrifugal forces, gravity and to some extent airflow.
And actually, flat floors, front splitters and diffusers do have effect, even though you cannot fine tune them.

As for the BMW, if you can cope with a little understeer, fiddle a tad with the LSD brake settings. Personally, I am faster with a slightly understeery car than a slightly oversteery one.
 
A lot of great info and and suggestions here. My advice, take a bit from each so you end up with a calm car that turns in well instead of a twitchy monster that cuts like a knife. I'll take predictable over ragged speed.

Sark
 
Stotty
Really?

Obviously formula cars use a high nose (but a low wing), but for tin tops I thought you wanted to run the front as low as possible on a race car (hence tarmac kissing splitters) to create maximum pressure differential between air passing under the car and over the car?
Click to expand...
Sorry, missed this one.
Modern LMP cars usually run a higher front.
I don't exactly know why, but their bodies create tremendous amounts of downforce (an LMP1 creates more DF than an F1), so I suspect that even though they run front splitters and winglets, the bodywork itself is likely to create more DF with more air flowing under the car.

Increased DF is created by speeding and directed airflow under the car, if the bodyshape itself is made to create DF.
If the air over the car passes faster than under it, it will create lift, so a too high nose is not really functional (see the Mercedes CLR). This is also why P1 cars have their fin, to prevent air from flowing too fast over the car if they go sideways.

GT3 cars (and GTE) have different ways to achive this. Look at a 458 under acceleration and braking. Their springs are surprisingly soft, so they get more air under the car under acceleration, and more air over the wings (kind of airbraking) under braking.

A front splitter doesn't exactly create DF, it directs airflow and reduces lift. Same as a diffuser.
 
Mt. Lynx
Sorry, missed this one.

Modern LMP cars usually run a higher front.

I don't exactly know why, but their bodies create tremendous amounts of downforce (an LMP1 creates more DF than an F1), so I suspect that even though they run front splitters and winglets, the bodywork itself is likely to create more DF with more air flowing under the car.

Increased DF is created by speeding and directed airflow under the car, if the bodyshape itself is made to create DF.

If the air over the car passes faster than under it, it will create lift, so a too high nose is not really functional (see the Mercedes CLR). This is also why P1 cars have their fin, to prevent air from flowing too fast over the car if they go sideways.

GT3 cars (and GTE) have different ways to achive this. Look at a 458 under acceleration and braking. Their springs are surprisingly soft, so they get more air under the car under acceleration, and more air over the wings (kind of airbraking) under braking.

A front splitter doesn't exactly create DF, it directs airflow and reduces lift. Same as a diffuser.
Click to expand...

Formula (including LMPs) cars are a special case I guess as the are constricted by having to start with the basic bodywork of a road car.

Regarding road cars…

At least with the Lancia Integrale (the current Seasonal TT car), in GT6 the car has less understeer with max front, min rear ride height. This car has no extra body work (ie; splitters or wings), and this set up would be horrendous in real life!
 
Stotty
Formula (including LMPs) cars are a special case I guess as the are constricted by having to start with the basic bodywork of a road car.

Regarding road cars…

At least with the Lancia Integrale (the current Seasonal TT car), in GT6 the car has less understeer with max front, min rear ride height. This car has no extra body work (ie; splitters or wings), and this set up would be horrendous in real life!
Click to expand...
Ohyes! IRL that would be understeer heaven!
 
an LMP1 creates more DF than an F1
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No, this is not correct. For example, a Champ car at Le Mans in 2003 made 5400lbs of down-force at 200mph. The comparable Panoz LMP1 car made 4266lbs at the same speed, same track. And an F1 car makes more down-force than a Champ car...

Now if you are saying LMP1 cars are more *efficient* at making down-force, I would agree with that.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerodatabaselolab0300.html
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerodatabasepanozlmp00.html
 

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