BMW 120D (Diesel...)

[counter345]

Is it the only diesel road car in the game?

What do you think of it?

 

[homeforsummer]

There are a couple of diesel Le Mans cars too, the Peugeot and Audi.

Edit: Sorry, misread. I see you say "diesel road car". In that case, yes, it is!

As for the 120D, it's not dissimilar to drive to the 120i really. Different characteristics of course but in terms of lap times it's quite similar.

 

[Blaze_409]

It doesn;t sound very good but it's a solid little car.

 

[counter345]

There are a couple of diesel Le Mans cars too, the Peugeot and Audi.

As for the 120D, it's not dissimilar to drive to the 120i really. Different characteristics of course but in terms of lap times it's quite similar.

I did say ROAD diesel cars...

I've noticed it's quite loud with the titanium racing exhaust.

yeah i think he knew those..but the 12Od is the only diesel road car i think...
Is it heavier?

It's around 1400 Kilograms I think.

 

[Blaze_409]

There are a couple of diesel Le Mans cars too, the Peugeot and Audi.

As for the 120D, it's not dissimilar to drive to the 120i really. Different characteristics of course but in terms of lap times it's quite similar.

yeah i think he knew those..but the 12Od is the only diesel road car i think...
Is it heavier?

 

[b_schwarz]

I have mine set up exactly the same as my real life car. Same colour too! Great practice for when I go to the nurburgring in August.

For only 177hp, it's quick with bags of torque and momentum.

 

[Crispy]

Has anyone tried to see if it will run longer than the 120I? Or does it get the same gas milage?

 

[b_schwarz]

Has anyone tried to see if it will run longer than the 120I? Or does it get the same gas milage?

Doubt it, but, in real life there is about 10 mpg difference. It's quite disappointing that there aren't many diesels in GT5, it's 2011 for god's sake.

I know GT5 is for petrolheads and that diesels lack "soul" but my 2007 120d 3dr is as quick as my sister's mk5 Golf GTI yet it will get 20mpg more on average and more than that when driven quickly. With the M sport suspension, it handles better too.
I average 47mpg, imagine what the difference would be on a 4hr+ race. Well a quick google will tell you, I'm sure a race modified 120d came best in class and something ridiculous like in the top ten overall at a recent Nurburgring 24hr.

 

[Ferrari_1996]

Which one is faster? The 120i or the 120D?

 

[b_schwarz]

Which one is faster? The 120i or the 120D?

120d

 

[Blaze_409]

Well doesn;t diesel cost more than Petrol(say yes).........

I think you get more mileage from 100ltires of diesel than 100litres of petrol because 1 mL of diesel has more energy than 1mL of petrol....therefore you can use less and go farther....

that dooesn't mean you won't pay for it at the pump though....

 

[jaycee_xr3]

I did say ROAD diesel cars....

ROADhouse



sorry I can't resist

 

[Dundermuffin666]

I actually like the 120d in this game. Quick little car too- the diesel engine is good for a lot of torque

 

[hessi]

I actually used it in the GTP Tyre Challenge (previously: Eco Challenge) for the first few races.

It's a nice little car with good motor characteristics, but it is just too damn slow to be competitive (in this competition). Fully tuned it's still a lot slower than cars like a Caterham or Elise, which (at least in GT5) get better mileage and the same, if not better tyre usage. In fact, that's the main reason the challenge was renamed to Tyre Challenge, all cars had such similar mileage that only the tyre usage was the challenge.

In GT5, 4WD cars have an advantage here, you can drive them close to total tyre breakdown and they are still under control.

 

[mrluckypants]

I actually like the 120d in this game. Quick little car too- the diesel engine is good for a lot of torque

Which one is faster? The 120i or the 120D?

The 120d has more power and torque than the 120i. It's a good drifter because of all the torque and it makes a good track car because of 350HP and 400 lb/ft of torque. It's my favorite car. It's not the only diesel car though, the VW Bus is a 1.4(?) diesel.

 

[Moot]

my 2007 120d 3dr is as quick as my sister's mk5 Golf GTI yet it will get 20mpg more on average and more than that when driven quickly. With the M sport suspension, it handles better too.

No way is it as quick. The power to weight is better in the Golf.
Also the 120d M sport is £25k to the Golf £21k when new. The running and ownership of the Golf will be cheaper even with a 20mpg drop.

I will have to give them both a lap time test on GT5, but the BMW is 23bhp down and heavier. But it will have some more grip/traction on the bends.

For GT5 purposes an interesting exercise would be to setup the 120d and 120i with equal power and equal weight and see which does the best lap time. As the power bands will be different. I think whichever way you do it, adjusting 120i or adjusting 120d, the 120i will be quicker as it has petrol power bands which are better.

 

[b_schwarz]

No way is it as quick. The power to weight is better in the Golf.
Also the 120d M sport is £25k to the Golf £21k when new. The running and ownership of the Golf will be cheaper even with a 20mpg drop.

I will have to give them both a lap time test on GT5, but the BMW is 23bhp down and heavier. But it will have some more grip/traction on the bends.

For GT5 purposes an interesting exercise would be to setup the 120d and 120i with equal power and equal weight and see which does the best lap time. As the power bands will be different. I think whichever way you do it, adjusting 120i or adjusting 120d, the 120i will be quicker as it has petrol power bands which are better.

Have you actually driven both then? On a regular basis? The 120d 07 onwards is faster 40mph to 80mph, you know, usable speed. Not off the line.

Just some information.

We both bought second hand. My car was £1000 dearer i'll admit but £350 cheaper to insure £150 cheaper to road tax and my car is a LOT cheaper to service.

Also check...

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=28653

and

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=36615

It's only .3 of a second slower to 60mph. I'd say that's as quick, I cant even count .3 of a second.

With an ecu upgrade and some weight loss. The older 5dr 120d in the game can be made very similar to my newer 3dr model. Then go compare them.

 

[Tornado]

It's quite disappointing that there aren't many diesels in GT5, it's 2011 for god's sake.

What difference does that make?

It's not the only diesel car though, the VW Bus is a 1.4(?) diesel.

No it isn't.

 

[aadil717]

No way is it as quick. The power to weight is better in the Golf.
Also the 120d M sport is £25k to the Golf £21k when new. The running and ownership of the Golf will be cheaper even with a 20mpg drop.

I will have to give them both a lap time test on GT5, but the BMW is 23bhp down and heavier. But it will have some more grip/traction on the bends.

For GT5 purposes an interesting exercise would be to setup the 120d and 120i with equal power and equal weight and see which does the best lap time. As the power bands will be different. I think whichever way you do it, adjusting 120i or adjusting 120d, the 120i will be quicker as it has petrol power bands which are better.

Yeh I just checked Parkers Guide online and the MSport 120d is about a second slower 0-60 against the normal Mark 5 Golf GTI. But all really depends on the driver when comparing in real life, but obviously in GT5 the GTI would be slightly quicker.

 

[analog]

Well doesn;t diesel cost more than Petrol(say yes).........

Not where I live, it's always been cheaper than petrol, I know that it costs more than petrol in the UK for example but as far as I know in most of Europe it's cheaper.
So less mpg and cheaper fuel combined with big improvements in performance and refinement over the last 15 years makes it perhaps not that surprising they are sold in big numbers over here.
I agree that there should be more diesel powered roadcars in GT5, some Premium cars are also available as diesels, so it shouldn't be that hard to add some I guess.

 

[aadil717]

With an ecu upgrade and some weight loss. The older 5dr 120d in the game can be made very similar to my newer 3dr model. Then go compare them.

Yeh actually an ECU upgrade on that car helps a lot and would probably make it faster than the Golf so I think it probably is faster than the GTI. I dont know which particular model GTI you were comparing so my statement above just went for the most common standard GTI comparison.

 

[Moot]

Have you actually driven both then? On a regular basis? The 120d 07 onwards is faster 40mph to 80mph,

Sorry this can not be true. You are probably using the old diesel owners adage of quoting an in gear time from a 4th, 5th or even 6th gear, or even if it was sequential the gears are set to the power band the diesel can use but the petrol can't. For the Golf to do 40mph to 80mph, that's 2nd gear start at 40mph, red line, then to 3rd, maybe need a 4th to get to 80mph I don't know. But the petrol Golf would be faster from 40mph to 80mph. You can't beat physics, both the power to weight and the power band favours the golf.
Good acceleration in a high gear is not a performance attribute, it's merely a relaxed driving attribute.

I originally got my information from Parkers before my first post. The BMW is 37kgs heavier and 23bhp down on power.

 

[uncle_hayley_j]

And it for some reason still spits flames out the back. Worrying for a diesel to say the least...

 

[Moot]

I have seen a diesel 4x4 parked at the side of the road before with flames slowly dripping out the back of the exhaust and landing on the road while still alight.

 

[StefanBellof]

What difference does that make?

I don't know about the US and Japan but here in Europe, Diesel powered cars represent about 50% of new cars that are sold.
One diesel road car to 800 or so Petrol road cars is a bit extreme, wouldn't you agree?
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i prefer Diesel to Petrol (i don't) but seeing that PD put 15 different MX5s with slight differences in trim so that people could drive their real life car in the game, i think diesels should be better represented.
There are some great Diesel cars out there you know.

 

[Thaddaeus]

The 120d has more power and torque than the 120i. It's a good drifter because of all the torque and it makes a good track car because of 350HP and 400 lb/ft of torque. It's my favorite car. It's not the only diesel car though, the VW Bus is a 1.4(?) diesel.

#2
Im not doing drift races, but the 120d is a nice little torque monster (this increases by tuning) and a good racer in its class.
The Samba Bus is not a Diesel i think. Were there any old Käfer diesel engines ?

 

[hessi]

The Samba Bus is not a Diesel i think. Were there any old Käfer diesel engines ?

Nope, neither Samba or any other VW T1 or T2 Bus nor Käfer were ever available as Diesel. Apparently, VW built a few prototypes in the 50's, but they were too loud and too slow (0-60km/h ~60seconds).

Another thing are private engine replacements. There are manuals and adaptor kits (transmission, engine mount) available to put old VW Golf Turbo Diesel engines (e.g. 1.6l 4-cylinder straights) into the VW Bus T1/T2. I've done it myself, it's a lot of work but a T2b with a water-cooled Diesel engine is something else... :-)

 

[GTP_Monkey]

Sorry this can not be true. You are probably using the old diesel owners adage of quoting an in gear time from a 4th, 5th or even 6th gear, or even if it was sequential the gears are set to the power band the diesel can use but the petrol can't. For the Golf to do 40mph to 80mph, that's 2nd gear start at 40mph, red line, then to 3rd, maybe need a 4th to get to 80mph I don't know. But the petrol Golf would be faster from 40mph to 80mph. You can't beat physics, both the power to weight and the power band favours the golf.
Good acceleration in a high gear is not a performance attribute, it's merely a relaxed driving attribute.

I originally got my information from Parkers before my first post. The BMW is 37kgs heavier and 23bhp down on power.

I have seen a diesel 4x4 parked at the side of the road before with flames slowly dripping out the back of the exhaust and landing on the road while still alight.

Doubt it, but, in real life there is about 10 mpg difference. It's quite disappointing that there aren't many diesels in GT5, it's 2011 for god's sake.

I know GT5 is for petrolheads and that diesels lack "soul" but my 2007 120d 3dr is as quick as my sister's mk5 Golf GTI yet it will get 20mpg more on average and more than that when driven quickly. With the M sport suspension, it handles better too.
I average 47mpg, imagine what the difference would be on a 4hr+ race. Well a quick google will tell you, I'm sure a race modified 120d came best in class and something ridiculous like in the top ten overall at a recent Nurburgring 24hr.

No way is it as quick. The power to weight is better in the Golf.
Also the 120d M sport is £25k to the Golf £21k when new. The running and ownership of the Golf will be cheaper even with a 20mpg drop.

I will have to give them both a lap time test on GT5, but the BMW is 23bhp down and heavier. But it will have some more grip/traction on the bends.

For GT5 purposes an interesting exercise would be to setup the 120d and 120i with equal power and equal weight and see which does the best lap time. As the power bands will be different. I think whichever way you do it, adjusting 120i or adjusting 120d, the 120i will be quicker as it has petrol power bands which are better.

My dads car is bigger and faster than your dads car.

 

[b_schwarz]

My dads car is bigger and faster than your dads car.

Haha! I know but, somebody on the internet was wrong!

Anyway, the 120d is a great road car in real life and in GT5 and it's the only diesel (shame, as mentioned they do hold 50% of sales in europe).

Moot, whatever man you don't believe it's true. My 120d at 177hp and 350nm of torque (70nm more than the GTI) is faster 40mph-80mph. I do not even need to shift from 4th. The GTI does need to shift from 3rd to 4th, almost flat shifting for it even to be close.

There is obviously some hatred towards diesel fuelled cars on any automobile based forum but the facts are there. I never ever thought I'd go diesel until I drove the 120d.
The turbo is electronic actuated so there is virtually no lag at all. The only obvious draw back is engine braking, it is existent but not as great as a petrol car. That's why my track car is petrol, an e36 323i coupe, it's no faster but better to drive on track as it is a lot louder (can hear the engine through the helmet) and gears are selectable earlier.

 

[peterjford]

There is obviously some hatred towards diesel fuelled cars on any automobile based forum but the facts are there. I never ever thought I'd go diesel until I drove the 120d.

When I see/hear anti-diesel comments, usually its "they are smelly and slow and only for big trucks", I tell them to check the winner of last few Le Mans races. One of the reasons I got the Jetta TDI was because I don't have to do any more smog tests!!! Tell that to anyone in Southern California and it really gets their attention.

The only obvious draw back is engine braking, it is existent but not as great as a petrol car.

I have the DSG in my TDI and when in "auto" mode the force of the engine braking is low, but you feel it when its downshifting. Its a little jerky and bugged me at first.

I like the 120d in GT5, its a fun car to drive and I wish PD had a few more diesel road cars (a Jetta TDI would be nice).