Body Rigidity on Ayrton Senna cars

[JustBecauz]

Hey all!

So I've won the kart and two new vehicles, have given them an oil change but a bit unsure whether to install the 'improve body rigidity' on the vehicles as don't want it to make them worse somehow.

Has anyone installed the better body rigidity and is it good or bad or doesn't make a difference?

Thanks!

 

[Siggers]

Increase Body rigidity ADDS UNDERSTEER. As a general rule most tuners don't use it (see tunes and the tuning forum).

The only real exceptions when you should use it are with very oversteery cars like the RUF yellow bird, simply because the oversteer is so great you need to combat it in every single way.

So personally I wouldn't use it on any race cars. If your car is oversteering there are many other ways to fix it other than body rigidity.

 

[AlligatorMike]

Rigidity upgrade has no negative side-effects. Understeer is a myth. It makes the cars more rigid, you will notice it doesn't bounce or vibrate as much, and it's much more smoother through the corners. Smoother through the corners equals better lap times. It's good for at least an extra 1/10th of a second better lap times.

 

[332i]

Increase Body rigidity ADDS UNDERSTEER. As a general rule most tuners don't use it (see tunes and the tuning forum).

This has been proved incorrect and I back it myself. It in no way causes understeer. I added it to one of my 97Ts and I didn't change a thing. I was even able to ditch a little rear wing, as the rear ended definitely hooked up quite a bit better. Late apexing is this cars friend now. It is indeed smoother and planted better. I'm doing 1:17s at Monaco and 1:16s at Monza. The tracks couldn't be any more different from one another. The stiffness upgrade seems to have picked me up .5 - 1 second, depending on the track. A bad lap for me at Spa nets a 1:45.xxx. I haven't seen many people dip into those times and I'm just using a G27 with my own tune on the Lotus.

 

[mistersafeway]

This has been proved incorrect and I back it myself. It in no way causes understeer. I added it to one of my 97Ts and I didn't change a thing. I was even able to ditch a little rear wing, as the rear ended definitely hooked up quite a bit better. Late apexing is this cars friend now. It is indeed smoother and planted better. I'm doing 1:17s at Monaco and 1:16s at Monza. The tracks couldn't be any more different from one another. The stiffness upgrade seems to have picked me up .5 - 1 second, depending on the track. A bad lap for me at Spa nets a 1:45.xxx. I haven't seen many people dip into those times and I'm just using a G27 with my own tune on the Lotus.

Both the parts I bolded are signs of increased understeer/stability, so not really helping your initial point. Nice times at Spa and decent at Monza though (if you mean with tyre wear on and not having pitted for tyres using RS, not sure about with tyre wear off).

 

[332i]

Hahs. Thanks. No understeer issues unless I carry too much speed in. I said it is smoother and planted better due to the body rigidity upgrade. That is what this thread is about. I took off rear wing, because it simply wasn't breaking loose. It was unnecessary. What I am saying is that after the upgrade, the amount of rear wing I was running was no longer necessary. Writing in on the affects of the mod. Thanks for your concerns, though.

I didn't box for new RS tires, what would be the point? The tire glitch is gone...and that would be backwards anyways. I don't really think you understand how hot laps are done and reported on here. They must be done offline, not in a lobby. And to my understanding and what I've seen from putting over 2000 miles on the lotus online this week, the 1:45 at spa is decent. I've seen another run 1:45s and few people who could run 1:46s. It is tough to run 1:45 consistently. I've yet to see someone run sub 1:17 at Monza yet in person. Haven't seen any pics of proof online either. I still have to post mine in the thread that is running for the senna TT time reports.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The "it adds understeer" idea is an oversimplification of what it does. Added understeer CAN be a side effect, but it isn't THE effect. Think of the chassis as a jello cube versus a wooden block. When the chassis is jello, there is unwanted or excessive suspension movement that is uncontrolled by the suspension. When you have the wooden block, the suspension does all the work.

On cars that are already rigid, a little flex makes the cars feel more supple so adding rigidity CAN give unwanted results, but it isn't assured. Generally speaking, a car like this might see benefit on a smoother track but it can have issues on a bumpy track.

I will try two back to back and see what happens

 

[332i]

I have two 97Ts and tried it. Tough to compare it to wood or jell-o, when we don't know the technicals on the physics if the 97T like PD does.

Unless your setup makes no sense and your spring setup is backwards essentially, it's not going to induce understeer. People have mentioned chassis flex, I'd like to see that proven and it can't be, unless PD presents evidence.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I have two 97Ts and tried it. Tough to compare it to wood or jell-o, when we don't know the technicals on the physics if the 97T like PD does.

True

That said, in my mind the most obvious way to model it would be to make the chassis twist along four axes, one that bisects the car longitudinally, one that bisects it transversely (I would do a midline between weight distribution), and two that bisect the chassis diagonally (from front right to left rear, and left front to right rear). "Adding rigidity" would simply reduce the twist factor by some multiple so that a chassis had reduced flex but never has 0 flex.

That's how I envision it.

 

[332i]

Interesting. The way I picture it is like a twizzler with an axle on each end. Or a sway bar. If the twizzler or bar is left soft, it will twist and pull the suspension and down, which is not ideal. When you reduce that twist that exist between the front and rear, 1) you're pairing the front to rear balance much better (the chassis isn't counteracting itself with each movement) and 2) you're turning the car into more of a flat plain. With less twisting through the chassis, the more that all four tires should be held to the pavement in a sort of unison. The pressures being exerted down to the road and how the chassis responds to said road are being increased. So, in my mind, you're basically pushing the car towards a sort of equilibrium on the four corners of it. And when you start throwing a lot of downforce at a car that can be imagined as a sort of flat plain with four wheels, it's like putting it on rails. When I stiffened the chassis, I lowered it slightly and run a pretty soft suspension. The car went from running 2:20s easily at Monza to high 1:17s being a poor lap.

I figure there is some sort of chassis flex modelling and I think your onto something with the four axis approach, but idk. I'm curious.

 

[Rich S]

The biggest difference on Gran Turismo 6 F1 cars is to lower the rear wing down to 50% less than front. Body rigity might help too, I dont think it hurts. What does hurt is that chassis restore, that hurts the car. Once your car is worn out best just sell it and buy a new one. In GT5 you could keep the same car forever though with no performance penalty.

 

[332i]

Wing adjustments heavily depend on toe, front camber and diff settings. No one is running below 900 in the rear and 1400 up front, unless they're tuning it to be a replica setup. The quickest lotus' are running a tad more wing in the rear than the front with zero understeer issues. My setup makes the car coordinated. It's incredibly easy to catch the rear with losing more than a hundredth off a corner exit and the only time I understeer is when I try to out brake someone and do an under-over.

If you don't hit things, the car won't deteriorate much. I have over 2k miles on one of my 97Ts and it has needed the chassis repaired. I've never had issues with the chassis feeling not up to snuff after it being repaired either. All my best cars - e60 m5, huayra, Peugeot 908, R18, pescorola hybrid...all have been repaired at least once and it hasn't affected my times one bit. No one knows if the chassis get affected long term or the they will simply need repairs more often.

I've read of people repairing some chassis' more than once in one day. Idk how that is possible, but that leads me to be live eventually, the chassis' just break down easier due to age and mileage, not because of the amount times it has been restored - that's what it seems to me. That theyll feel the same, they'll just need structural repairs more often. Which makes sense. Cars age, they weaken. A repair is a repair, but eventually you're repairing and reifnircing a lot as the body gets older and abused...I'm guessing they modelled it more like that as it would be the most realistic. Repairs to chassis are always as strong or stronger when it comes to race cars. Even street cars. I have an e36 and they blow rear shock towers out. Destroyed mine, repaired, bonded a reinforcement plate with a bond that is stronger than a weld and bam...should never break again. People yank rear subframes out of floor pans on them, too. Weld in new floor pan and reinforcements...even without the reinforcements, the new floor pan installation will be no weaker than when it rolled off then factory floor. Most things like this they've modelled logically, so yeah.

But, like I've been saying...who knows on this stuff. I don't ckmllajn about GT6, much...but a little more data on the status if the car would be nice.

In the status menu where it shows your cars with the most mileage, wins, most mileage on x track, etc...I wish we could click in these and see the runner ups. I've done thousands of mikes around the ring...but I would like to know how many I've done at spa, ring go course or apricot hill, etc. Would like to see how many miles on every car, without having to "get in it". Also, mileage since last oil change? I just change it before I use then car every time now...

Anyone had to rebuild the motor on their 97T yet? Or the chassis?

 

[mistersafeway]

Hahs. Thanks. No understeer issues unless I carry too much speed in. I said it is smoother and planted better due to the body rigidity upgrade. That is what this thread is about. I took off rear wing, because it simply wasn't breaking loose. It was unnecessary. What I am saying is that after the upgrade, the amount of rear wing I was running was no longer necessary. Writing in on the affects of the mod. Thanks for your concerns, though.

I didn't box for new RS tires, what would be the point? The tire glitch is gone...and that would be backwards anyways. I don't really think you understand how hot laps are done and reported on here. They must be done offline, not in a lobby. And to my understanding and what I've seen from putting over 2000 miles on the lotus online this week, the 1:45 at spa is decent. I've seen another run 1:45s and few people who could run 1:46s. It is tough to run 1:45 consistently. I've yet to see someone run sub 1:17 at Monza yet in person. Haven't seen any pics of proof online either. I still have to post mine in the thread that is running for the senna TT time reports.

Tell that to most of the other people I've asked about lap times they've quoted, and don't be so condescending without any justification.

Edit:... Yeah, you probably didn't realise how insulting that would be to me, but I still don't know what tyres you were on or whether tyre wear was on or off at Spa, although Monza was almost certainly without it on based on your wording.

 

[ALB123]

What does hurt is that chassis restore, that hurts the car. Once your car is worn out best just sell it and buy a new one. In GT5 you could keep the same car forever though with no performance penalty.

Are you 100% certain on this? Can you explain why this is true? It seems rather foolish to have the option, but have it actually be useless,as you state. Have you actually compared lap times, before and after chassis rebuilds? I'm totally new to Gran Turismo, the series, so I don't yet understand all the little things that seasoned players of this franchise understand. I just opted for the chassis rebuild on my Huayra because i was using it to grind on SSX (Like The Wind) and it finally beat down that car. I'm going to be rather pissed if I just wasted 500,000CR on restoring the body regidity. Damn...