Boosting Dedication in Racing, Endurances, and Game Completion

[JohnBM01]

The Gran Turismo series has been about deeply exploring the game for each and every caveat in the game. This thread was inspired by a chat I had with someone via Instant Messaging. A person I chatted with online said that he/she just wanted to fool around in the game and not really be serious about 100% completion. I have never acheived 100% in a GT game since GT1 when I won every race series all the way to the bonus material. Dedicated gamers are usually tied to the game until its beaten. That's how I felt when I played and beaten the underrated (as far as last year's G-Phoria awards basically became "The HALO2 Show") GTA: San Andreas. It was over 84 hours of gameplay that was pretty much worth it for this massive game. I think GT4 was REALLY about dedication as you simply couldn't just run some races and "fool around." That's because if you just fool around, you're really missing out on a majority of the game. Now do you actually want to fool around and not get anywhere, or do you want to dedicate yourself to beating the game? If GT4 is any indication, GT5 will likely be much more bigger and more in-depth in terms of races and such. How do you boost dedication to GT races and events?

Part of dedication is to actually get YOURSELF to being dedicated to GT games. But is that really possible? Your "People Person" (me) talked to some people out in public in the past. Some made comments about not having time with endurance events. That's completely understandable. Who really has the time to do anything longer than the Grand Valley 300km anytime and anywhere? That's why B-Spec has been an invaluable asset for the GT gamer who is either not dedicated or in endurance racing disciplines or ultra-competitive races. It's pretty easy to have your feathers ruffled at just the notion of very long races on tough races. I would normally tell people not to be easily frustrated. I'd suggest endurances if you have time to burn. You'll have to make time for it if you don't have the time for the longer races. There's a saying I remember hearing, "do what you love and love what you do." You dedicate your time to Gran Turismo, keep fighting it out until you win it all.

Your dedication suggestions are welcome as soon as you conclude reading this introduction.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

It's a love for cars. and a love for beating the piss out of them. I love cars. I love speed. I love adrenaline. I love sexy curves. I love fear. Cars give me all these things, and as a result, I love cars.
I ran GT4 to 97.7% before it crashed, what did I do? 100% - with 80 Golds. that was over 6 months ago. I still play the game every chance I get, why? because I love taking a car I like, making it perform the way I want it to, and beating stiff competition. and I do what it takes to find it.

I don't play the GT series to beat it. it's not about conquering this particular game. it's about playing with cars, all day, every day. I am consumed, and never satisfied. if there is something I havent finished, in the game, it means there's a new way to play with a car, and I do it.

IMO, if you don't have that, you're not gonna care if you don't get 100%. period.

P.S. I have barely done any of the endurances. boring. I forgot to mention that. I don't like playing when it feels like work. the citroan cv2 cup felt like work. but that took 20 min. Sarthe 24hr is something that would be not only boring, but I don't even like those cars in the first place.

 

[Jim Prower]

Nice one, LeadSled!

He's right. I talk to other gamers about GT over on TFS, my other fourm. they very much dislike the games. They get frustrated trying to "Beat" the license tests. But, like LeadSled said, it's not about "Beating" the game. It's about playing with cars. That's kind of why I use a Gameshark: I'm not really into the whole 100% completion thing. I just wanna play with my 570+ car garage of spec-modded cars.

Specs like this

0-100HP: classic micros
100-199HP: "K" touring
200-399HP: "Super Compact"
400-599HP: "GT300 (GT3)"
350-599HP, AWD compact: "Rally"
600-799HP: "GT500 (GT2)"
400-499HP, Sedan: "Supertouring"
500-799HP, sedan: "V8 Supercars"
800-1001HP: "GT800 (GT1/Prototype)"

Unless I determine a car is eligible, (by virtue of meeting certian styling and horespower criteria) 799 hp is the ceiling for production cars. That means I have no 800hp Supras. I've also set the ceiling to Rally cars at 599, so I can maximize the number of cars in that class, but this means many group B cars are not at their full potential. I had to make a couple of excetpions in the "GT500 (GT2)" class for cars that hit 800hp without engine modifications.

That's the kind of thing you can do. You can play the game however you want, since there's no real storyline or anything. most of the time I just go through my garage and go through all of my cars. It's a car guy game. and that's what's so great.

 

[3spddrft]

The problem with GT that I see is there is no selectivity. People have to do it all or nothing to beat the game. I know that I've heard a number of racers that strongly dislike the rallying. Personally, I prefer to focus on street cars. The way GT is set up I honestly believe that it's not important to complete the game 100%. Instead, the gamer should approach the game to get what they want from it. The reason there are so many cars is so that everyone has a number of them that they really enjoy! Not so that they'll become masters with every single car available in every form of racing.

Peace

 

[Dave A]

Well said 👍.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yep, what the above guys said.

GT4 is so expansive, it's almost exhausting to try and complete EVERYTHING. I have a few license tests to gold and some Missions to complete, and then there's the endurance races which I just plain don't have time for, so my completion percentage is close to 90% and holding.

I had been going into races at 120-200 A Spec points to challenge myself, anywhere and everywhere. And buying cars! I've been going shopping and getting some of those obscure cars and race cars I want. That to me is much more enjoyable than getting saddle sores trying to complete an endurance race that, one or two mistakes wipe out your attempt. Augh! I need to train up B Spec Bob at some point and have him do them.

Since March though, I've been stuck in Forzaland. Not because the racing is any better, it's just different. In fact, the bots are just horrible violent little smacktards that have no business cluttering up a race track! But modding and painting racecars is such a joy. I knew it would be awesome once I came to grips with the paintshop, but I can't believe how fantastic it is to see a car I created running around a track in a replay! So, for a while yet, GT4 is going to collect some dust.

I've beaten Forza and almost reached that 100% mark, but then it's a little easier since the game is much smaller. An endurance race in Forza is a little over 30 minutes long! But once again, I'm having too much fun exploring the joys of creating and racing cars.

Sometime this fall when I have gobs of free time, I'll see about finishing them off, with the approach of both Forza 2 and GT5/HD, but it may not happen. Doing that 100% completion thing is a kind of ambition not everyone has, so if you've done it, feel proud and post how awesome it is on the forum here, and see if you can get some of us to aspire to the same thing.

 

[fideles1986]

well these are for sure the longest comments I have ever read, and with that said, here goes mine.

To me GT4 is a portal for those who can't. I really don't think that anybody in the GTPlanet community has an Aston Martin DB9 or even a BMW M3 class, and I come to realize, that's why we play the game. Because i wish i could feel the exciment of 200mhp and how fun it would be to take a Lotus Elise to the Nurburgring and scuff it up a little. take real live racers for example:
some racers race because they really love cars and everything about cars.
some race because they like wining and the feeling of a competition where u know you are not the best, but you could be.
some really love drifting around in 4WD in courses that are more confusing then a rubik's cube.
and some race only for the $$$ and if they knew how to do anything else that could bring them more $$$ then they would stop racing.
Thats exactly what we are, different types of racers. I like to think I am the "i really love cars" type of racer. So we come to the question, why do we buy these games and do whatever it is that moves us. simply because we can.

well these are my thoughts in the matter. and I hope someday i reach 100% on GT4. (92.3%)thanx
p.s. does anyone here watch Top Gear/ i love that show/ i think i am going to start a thread for all top gear lovers...

 

[rovens]

Well i want to complete the game, but i reached 60ish% and now i just get distracted by driving the cars that i have, for me its more about driving the cars on my own for hours than competeing in the races.

 

[Dave A]

well these are for sure the longest comments I have ever read, and with that said, here goes mine.

Get used to it, because I've read some that are a whole lot longer. There's a couple of GTPer's with nice car's, and have proven they have nice cars but the point you made is still sound.

And yes I watch and really enjoy TopGear, check out the TV and Film forums, there's a great thread covering the current series.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> After purchasing GT4, me and my buddy were co-op to finish the game. But as time goes by, and 87% later, all we do is to tune cars from our garage or buy one for the heck of it. As of now, me and my buddy work in tandem by tunning the cars in selective categories (Drift, Time Attack, Top Speed, and 1/4 Mile), while me I drive the cars he tunes. And now we don't even care of completing the game, we just tune the best cars that (in case we bump up with someone who also plays GT4) we can compete with while having fun at the same time. (:

 

[FormulaGT]

There is no doubt GT is a great game, but as with everything in life the supreme limit is TIME. I've done all the endurance races, but the majority over 1.5-2 hours in b-spec. Why? Because I hate the feeling when your eyes get tired- it affects your whole body & I certainly don't have in excess of 2 hours to dedicate to a game most days.

As 3spddrft said, you really haven't got any choice when it comes to getting 100%. You either do, or you don't.

But all that aside, GT4 is very fun for it's variable game play, such as tuning for track racing, drifting, topspeed (whcih I love) etc. All are very fun, so in some respects you actually do have choice in the gameplay, just not for 100% (but who cares, its merely a figure, mind over matter, always).

FormulaGT

 

[DeepFreeze]

I think focus should be put more on reliable physics and cars. Not so much endurance races. I mean a few of them , are just too long. sure B-Spec mode is nice, but I dont want to HAVE to use that.

focus more on the player aspect.

 

[Uncle Harry]

100 % completion.
My game save says 100% completion, yet I have never looked at arcade mode in GT4.
Should Arcade mode count for game completion as it did for earlier games?
Sure it was a long haul in GT4 and one has to question if it is worth it. Like A spec points it has some bragging rights and gives you a unique black F1 car.

PD has to be careful in how it manages the gameplay for GT5. If it makes it any longer than GT4 then I think there may be a lot more people not getting to 100%.
What can PD do to make 100% completion more viable in GT mode.
Limit endurance races to 3 hours, or let you save progress in pit lane if longer races are planned.
Dump the penalty from rally races.
Limit damage or let the player select it on or off.
Damage will seriously impact on people wanting to get 100%.
I can not see too many people re-doing a 24 hour race if there is a chance you may not win because a crash at the 23 hour mark will disable your car.

Are 700 plus cars too many? Does the chance off driving so many cars distract the player from 100% goal.

Fix the AI entrants to a more level field. 1 fast car and 2 medium pace cars and 1 slow car just does not work.
Also online play will distract people away from 100% completion.

Hey, play it what ever way you want, I think the important part is to enjoy the game whatever way you do.

For me completing GT4 to 100% was a chore compared to the earlier games.

 

[Tenacious D]

Uncle Harry put it well. But I do want GT5 to be an even bigger game. If that puts a lot of people off from chasing down 100% completion, like it might do me, that's cool.

Getting through all the manufacturer cup races was a chore for me too. I chased down all those low end cars first and got them out of the way, and it seemed to take FOREVER! But I'd rather they be there than not. It made getting through GT4 up to the enduros a one year safari, and it felt great. I'm hoping that it's even longer in GT5. For the impatient guys who don't want to deal with sub-100hp cars, that would mean plenty of other things to play with for a long time.

 

[JohnBM01]

In talking about dedication, there was something I thought of. Would you play a sports game (other than motorsports) for a very long season? I have never played a sports game which has a very long Season Mode to it. That accounts for my college football and college basketball games. Unless you are able to unlock something for playing for a long time, it isn't really required to clear the entire season for a good while. I've played my college football and college basketball games by just fooling around an playing Dynasty only once for college football. I've heard of Dynasty or very long Season modes that go into about 30 years in the game! People will play the game, but some for a very long time in the game. That's DEEP commitment. And this has been my issue about people wanting some Career Mode in Gran Turismo- how long will it be and will you be required to win the championship several times in an unlimited season? And will people be extremely committed to clearing the season for as long as it takes?

That was just another example of being committed to a game. I am just uncertain about some commitment to games if someone isn't going to commit for that long. Part of commitment is like marriage. After you jump the broom or kiss the bride (or groom if you're a lady reading this), you have to be committed to loving and caring for only that significant other for as long as it takes, right? It means that any other girls who want to hit on you or tried hitting on you shouldn't even come close to you. Otherwise, the commitment you made to that significant other would be as shattered as the s:censored:ty season the Kansas City Royals are having. You have to do what you love and love what you do. That is the start of a commitment to anything, much less video games. And it isn't like Gran Turismo is a cheap thrill deal where it's okay if you don't your best. You have to show your strength in each and every event you enter. You want 100% completion? Win all the races. Part of commitment begins with us. The rest of that commitment depends on how we share our love for the duration of the game.

Care to continue? And in case you ask, NO! I am not a marriage counselor even though I used it as an example!

 

[Tenacious D]

Hockey has a fairly long season, 82 games in the regular season, and then in the post season championship, it's a best of seven in four tiers, the final being for the Stanley Cup. So on paper, it's possible to play 110 hockey games in a season! Yikes! I've played five or six hockey games through the entire season more than once with my beloved Mighty Ducks, which is a LOT of hockey! Maybe a thousand games. Am I dedicated?

And yes, Gran Turismo is waiting for me to test my patience in Endurance races, but I'm going to be sure and get my B-Spec driver up to snuff first. We'll see how that goes.

I'm on my second profile in Forza, and I'm probably going to buy Toca 3 tomorrow. The more I read, the more videos I see, the tastier it looks. I don't tend to set games aside unless they get superceded like GT3 did with GT4 by a quantum jump. I'm sure I'll be adding Colin McRae and Richard Burns Rally to the pile by mid summer too.

If Gran Turismo 5 had a good Career Mode like my proposal, which went on indefinitely, season after season, I'd just keep going and might never play another racing game ever. Well, except for Forza 2 which I'm sure will be about as good but with different tasty goodies. Variety is always refreshing from time to time.

 

[Pupik]

That was just another example of being committed to a game. I am just uncertain about some commitment to games if someone isn't going to commit for that long. Part of commitment is like marriage. After you jump the broom or kiss the bride (or groom if you're a lady reading this), you have to be committed to loving and caring for only that significant other for as long as it takes, right?...And it isn't like Gran Turismo is a cheap thrill deal where it's okay if you don't your best. You have to show your strength in each and every event you enter. You want 100% completion? Win all the races. Part of commitment begins with us. The rest of that commitment depends on how we share our love for the duration of the game.

If you were married, John, you'd realize that running anything more than a 2-hour enduro can kill off a marriage, not to mention, it's impossible with a "honey-do" list lying in wait. Unless you can make $50K a year playing video games, it's not realistic to expect a lasting real-life relationship unless your wife is as big a fan of GT as you are.

If PD wants implement game saves in the middle of an enduro, then I have no complaints about a 24 hour A-spec race. But it's a clearly a big mistake from PD, because most of us play video games for fun, to temporarily escape reality. If your adult life is all about playing GT all day long, day after day, than it's quite possible that one needs a reality check.

Some of us aren't tied up in winning 100%; Anything in the 90%-completion range shows quite an interest for Gran Turismo, there's just some parts I don't find fun, just frustrating, or a huge waste of time. An Audi R8 I can buy in a few hours, or running my PS2 all day against 5 other cars on a huge race track? Another F1 car that's black...big deal. A challenge race that makes me sit mon my ass for 2 minutes each time I want to play it...another time killer; I've got enough prototypes that can score 10 A-spec points in the GTWC.

 

[Dave A]

It's like that just living with a woman let alone being married to her .

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Well, women have their own interests we have to put with too, so I can´t see how you can´t finish a 24 hrs race because you´re married. Give and take, that is how it works.

I finished GT4 as fast as I could (still took me four months IIRC), since my real love for this game is the cars, not gameplay itself. That is why I have two saves, with all cars available on each save. On one of the saves, I have all cars stock, and are currently undergoing the momentous task of testing them all. On the other save, I tune, test, and do whatever I want.

And I like to drive all cars, not just the pricy ones, wich someone stated as the reason for us to play GT4.

Now, I could´ve bought a gameshark to get all the cars, but the game itself is fun, and while playing, you get to drive alot of wonderful cars, and also learn how to drive them, via the licensetests.

I would like GT5 to have more cars, more tracks, better sounds, better graphics, a better photomode with more locations, and more extensive gameplay. No matter how large the game will be, I will most certainly get 100% in GT5 too! And I do have a girlfriend, who doesn´t like GT games at all...

 

[Dave A]

I haven't finished GT4, I've been sat at 70odd% for the last 7 or 8 months, even if I was bothered about 100% I couldn't finish GT4 because I don't have time for the longer endurance races and my B-Spec is one of thoes that has an allergy to LeMans. Living with a woman I can tell you, trying to A-spec a 24hr race could take several weeks for me, that's time the PS2 would have to be switched on and not unplugged, I need the plug and I wouldn't leave it on that long or close to that long even anyway.

 

[Tenacious D]

I have to say, unless I have already, that I don't know if I'll ever finish even one enduro. It depends on how long it is, and how easy it is to loose. Just driving a two hour race in GT2 had me ready to smash my controller a couple of times when I thought I had a race bagged only to be passed at the last minute. The thought of repeating that with up to 22 hours added on makes me want to ignore endurance races altogether.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Well, each to their own I guess. I like the endurance races, and redo some of them every now and then, just for fun.

L4S, I understand your concern about leaving the PS2 on for that long, but there are people in these forums who has had them on for very long, even a month or so.
And why shouldn´t you be able to leave it on? I never turn my computer off, I only restart it once a month or so, and the PS2 isn´t very different, I guess. But again, I have not tried to leave it on for that long, the longest I´ve had it running was 6 days. And to be honest, my PS2 is too valueable to me, to risk anything like that!

I also have a very forgiving job (work 14 days, home 21), and an understanding (and patient) girlfriend!

 

[Dave A]

Because as I said, I need that plug socket, for other things than the PS2. As for turning the computers off, I always turn them off, I have high electricity bills and they're always going up, leaving the PC on every night, every month would make a nice difference to my utilities company and a not so nice one for me. Also, my PS2 is nearly 5 years old, it would probably pop it's clogs after 24hrs let alone a few weeks. Then theres a high probability that at least one second within thoes few weeks will see a drop in power and cause the PS2 to reset, I have a hell of a lot of electrical equipment in my house, if I have a lot of it on at once it can overload and that's bad. Fianlly I simply wouldn't want to have the PS2 on that long, or to keep coming back for 20-30 mins to do just a bit more of the same race. I have a very patient girl too, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be sitting infront of the TV all day playing GT4.

 

[Uncle Harry]

If you introduce long races then a save feature would make the game more user freindly.
I B specced the long ones as I cant have a PS2 running for 4 weeks as my kids also play PS2 games and there are other things to spend money on than extra PS2's when you have a family.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Because as I said, I need that plug socket, for other things than the PS2. As for turning the computers off, I always turn them off, I have high electricity bills and they're always going up, leaving the PC on every night, every month would make a nice difference to my utilities company and a not so nice one for me. Also, my PS2 is nearly 5 years old, it would probably pop it's clogs after 24hrs let alone a few weeks. Then theres a high probability that at least one second within thoes few weeks will see a drop in power and cause the PS2 to reset, I have a hell of a lot of electrical equipment in my house, if I have a lot of it on at once it can overload and that's bad. Fianlly I simply wouldn't want to have the PS2 on that long, or to keep coming back for 20-30 mins to do just a bit more of the same race. I have a very patient girl too, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be sitting infront of the TV all day playing GT4.

Oh, yeah, I forgot the socket. That is a problem, but the main issue has to be costs, no doubt! My electrical bill is baked into the rent for the apartment, so I never really see what it actually costs. But I can tell you, the computer doesn´t cost much, compared to other things. I bet your toaster costs atleast three times as much per minute!
But I wouldn´t know what the electricity cost in - where are you from? England?

I also have a generation one PS2 of an early series, and I´ve heard all kinds of horrific stories of how bad they are, but I have never had any problems at all with mine.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, I'm from England, my electricity bills are on average £65 per month thats over $100 so it's not cheap. All the game really needs is a mid race save feature for endurance races.

 

[JohnBM01]

We can easily look to "Le Mans 24 Hours" for a race-save deal. I would have never completed 240 minutes of Le Mans or 100 minutes of Petit Le Mans without making saves. I haven't yet resumed my saves of Road Atlanta and the 24 Hours of Le Mans. I basically just started... a LONG time ago. Sierra/Papyrus' NASCAR Racing games feature a Save Game deal which saves the exact positions a car is at speed. So if you are leading and second place is 10 seconds behind you, the field will be frozen and then picked up afterwards. This would be unrealistic for recovering saves. The good thing would be that you don't have to pit to save. Bad is that you may have to make ready once the save is complete. This is the "Save Anywhere" approach usually found in most old-school first-person shooters like Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, and such.

I think B-Spec is for people who can't clear the race, much less win it. Who has 24 hours out of the day to run a full-length event? Some people actually want to have a really-long session as if there are extra people to take over for a race. Some people are VERY dedicated. What about some people who get online and play an online deathmatch game, then play it all night and don't stop until the sun shines again? Not everyone has the same level of dedication. And you can't really hate someone just because their extreme dedication is different from your average dedication. If you could play Gran Turismo all day, that's fine. Just don't talk about this like ANYONE could have that dedication for GT. That's not gonna happen. Everyone is different. No disrespect, but some people have lives away from gaming. Don't just say that B-Spec is for wimps or whatever. Some have the dedication, just not as much as the "I can play all day" types. It just depends on a lot of factors not even you have any control over.

 

[Tenacious D]

Frankly, I like toying with my B-Spec driver to see how it learns. It's not as fascinating as training the Drivatar in Forza because the learning it does makes it kind of a clone of you. It's uncanny watching it drive, and you realize that you aren't watching a replay of yourself.

 

[fideles1986]

Well i'm at 99.8% complete and i just can't pass the Nurb mission. It's funny because i read from another mate that he has a wife and he has to also give her attention. When i play GT4 my wife always asks me, " Are you in the Nurb?" and if I say yes she just leaves me alone because she knows i hate and love that track at the same time, but if i say no she just asks me "can you pause that for a minute?" and that minute goes on for about an hour or so, if you know what i mean. well, let me get back to the nurb.