Bristol Cars Goes Bust

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Robin

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Another UK luxury car maker goes bust and this time its Bristol Cars who have made some OK models in the past the most recent being the Fighter released in 2004 and the Fighter T which is a 1,012HP shooting brake. They have been going for 65 years.

Famously they only sold to people they approved of and never advertised the fact they even exist, turns out this backfired especially these days where the very people that have the money to buy such cars are people your probably not going to like very much! Apparently by the end they may have only been selling 20 cars a year!

To be honest I'm not sad to see them go, the Fighter's styling looks horrid and they are way overpriced (150K-250K). It always looked like kit car 'man in shed' outfit like so many other 'bespoke' car manufacturers which have failed.

Robin.

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It's sad that yet another British car company is gone now but I'm not surprised that Bristol have gone belly-up. They had a very restrictive business plan and marmite cars. I personally think they were heavily overpriced for what they were, who would pay £200,000+ for an outdated car with a cheap looking interior? For that much money I'd rather have an Aston DBS, Ferrari 458 or a genuinely classic car.
 
90% who see this thread will most likely think, "Who?"
 
There's a showroom in S.Kensington, London and every time I pass I wonder who buys them. I rarely see them on the road but do actually think they're quite sexy cars.
 
Apparently some people had to race the owner of Bristol cars on a scalextric set before he let them buy a car! It's sad considering only last year they had an event at Filton airfield where Bristol Cars, Buses, and Aircraft were shown off for some kind of ceremony.
 
A link or something to verify this?

But all the same, Bristol cars have always looked weird as far as I'm concerned. I love cars crafted for individuals, even if the brand of individual they want to buy the car is NOT me!!:sly: Just sad to see another storied make go the way of the dinosaur...
 
There's a The only showroom was in S.Kensington, London and every time I pass I wonder who buys them. I rarely see them on the road but do actually think they're quite sexy cars.

Fixed - and that was part of the problem, as has been mentioned the utterly bizarre way they ran the company (which made Rover's dying days look almost sane).

Scaff
 
No offense to you Britons, but it seems to me that the demise of so many British manufacturers has much to do with their snooty image and stubborn insistence on building cars that the builder wants to build, but customers don't actually want to buy. Case in point: Lotus. The Elise and Exige are boutique cars the appeal to an extremely small group of hardcore enthusiasts and egotistical numbskulls who order lime green to be seen, but a product like that is never going to make anybody rich. Thus the new direction. Jaguar's stubbornness: bought out by foreigners and taken in a totally new, profitable direction. Land Rover, too. TVR ring a bell?

The British seem to be just as good at making ridiculous cars as the Italians, just not as good at making money with them.
 
Case in point: Lotus. The Elise and Exige are boutique cars the appeal to an extremely small group of hardcore enthusiasts and egotistical numbskulls who order lime green to be seen

Hold on! I'm a member of the former category, but I'd get the lime green car just for laughs...

Although I agree - I don't think the company can survive selling a couple hundred soapboxes in flashy colours. I'm actually rather surprised they've managed to get lent so much money on essentially racing heritage and pop culture chique. And Bristol hasn't any of those ingredients. They just go on the expectation of blue blood snobbery.
 
I was born in Bristol. I guess it's sad these guys closed down. It's just that I noticed the thread because I read the word Bristol.
 
Jaguar's stubbornness: bought out by foreigners and taken in a totally new, profitable direction. Land Rover, too.
I'd argue the problem with those two was always quality control rather than problems with market positioning.
 
I'd argue the problem with those two was always quality control rather than problems with market positioning.
That was certainly a factor, but it didn't matter. British people buy British cars because they're British, right?. A Jaguar is a Jaguar, and therefore no quality control is needed. Why on earth would Jaguar of all companies need to compete with other car makers? Why would the greatest luxury makers the world has ever seen, Rolls Royce and Bentley, ever need to modernize?

America's big companies recently went through a similar sobering experience. Whether they were full of themselves or just stupid I don't know, but their business model sucked ass either way.
 
I can't say I'm surprised, I was shocked to see they were still around when I was looking at the list of British makes on Wikipedia.

As for why a good amount of British makes ultimately fail, I would guess for the most part they appeal to a niche market and unlike other companies don't seem to be able to successfully reach into other markets(or has been mentioned, just have terrible reliability issues that have damaged the brand).
 
A lot of British companies have fallen because of bad management over many decades, this country can build good cars when it wants to, but we can't sell them in big enough volume due to bad marketing/finances/management/reliability.

A good example of bad management is MG-Rover, they could build good cars and had talented engineers but they never really had the adequate funds. They were forced to update the same mid-90's cars for nearly a decade, some of which had even older parts. (the 200/25 allegedly had some chassis parts from the Austin Montego/Maestro.) When they got the funding they needed from BMW, they showed how talented they were with the Rover 75 but shortly after it was released, BMW sold Rover and their funding dried up once again. Due to bad management decisions, MG-Rover never released the desperately needed midsize 400/45 replacement, instead opting to develop the cool-but-useless MG SV and rebadge the Tata Indica as the CityRover, which was priced too high to be competitive and instead just devalued the Rover brand even further. Sadly, the potentially lucrative deal between MGR and the Chinese company NAC fell through and MGR went under. MG were reborn recently under Chinese ownership and are soon going to be selling the British-designed and enginereed but Chinese-built MG 6 in the UK. It seems MG finally have a secure future but sadly not a British owned future.

The story of MG-Rover is very similar to many other British car companies. Many British brands were killed under British Leyland and the ones that survived were eventually sold off to foreign companies. It seems only the small, niche British car makers seem to escape this fate, Bristol however clearly haven't, they're another victim of bad management. They should have produced more desirable cars that people wanted to buy so that they could keep solvent, rather than produce over-priced marmite cars that only a very small niche bought.

Wowzers, the above post is very long and I've rambled on for ages but I felt I had to offer my opinion on the state of the British car industry and how us British are not very good at managing our car companies. Sorry for the massive wall of text, I hope I didn't ramble on for too long... oops, I'm rambling again. :lol:
 
No offense to you Britons, but it seems to me that the demise of so many British manufacturers has much to do with their snooty image and stubborn insistence on building cars that the builder wants to build, but customers don't actually want to buy. Case in point: Lotus. The Elise and Exige are boutique cars the appeal to an extremely small group of hardcore enthusiasts and egotistical numbskulls who order lime green to be seen, but a product like that is never going to make anybody rich.

There's a chunk of irony in those two examples - they contradict your point.

If it weren't for the Elise, Lotus would have sunk without a trace years ago. The Mk1 Elise made so much money for Lotus that it effectively saved the company. They'd been relying on an extremely niche car - the £100,000 Esprit - effectively since the Esprit was conceived. The Elan M100 was an extraordinarily good car, but no-one wanted a £30k, front-wheel drive roadster - they may have paid for the badge, if it weren't for the Isuzu badge on the engine - particularly when the MX-5 was available and they sold fewer Eclats and Excels than a pig farm in Israel sells fresh bacon.


The problems of the British car industry post-WW2 are not easy to analyse. The last bulk-manufacturer - Rover - suffered from terrible build quality throughout its life. All British cars built during the British Leyland era - Jaguar (XJS), Triumph (TR7), Morris (Ital), Austin (Allegro) - suffered from terrible build quality throughout their life. European Fords built in Britain suffered from terrible build quality throughout their life (Dagenham Dustbins). The less said about stuff like TVR and Lotus the better. And yet British workers assemble the ultra reliable current Jaguar range, the Honda range and the Nissan range - all amongst the most reliable cars in the world.

We've always been good at results-based engineering. The Atom is just the latest in a line of inexpensive, low weight, low cost and largely reliable cars from our shores. Westfield, Caterham, Radical, yes TVR (when they work), Lotus (S1 Elan and more recently the Elise), Austin Healey - hell, even the Triumph Spitfire/Stag/TR5 and MG Midget/B manage to be near-enough reliable. It's no accident that most of the F1 teams are based in Britain. We've always done extreme luxury too. Aston Martin, Jaguar, Range Rover, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, all of whom have loaned their expertise to foreign manufacturers in the shape of Ford, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi (and Porsche).

Niche sports cars will always be self-sustaining - without having to R&D the drivetrain or powertrain, you can make a low-cost, high-demand product. You don't need to sell many to make money. Luxury cars will always be self-sustaining - you can set your price at whatever the hell you want and even in a recession they'll sell.

Where we fall down is just cars. Can anyone name the last successful British-designed and built (forget the money trail) small hatchback - the sector that sells the most cars Europe-wide? Or the last successful British-designed and built small family car? Let's be honest, the Mini was a cracker, but not quite the height of reliability (nor safety). The same can be said of the Escort (which got less interesting and less reliable with each generation) and the Cortina. Depending on to whom you speak, the Rover 25/200/MGZR and 45/400/MGZS will be held in high regard or given extreme disdain but they cannot possibly be classed as reliable. Elsewhere there's the Triumph Acclaim/Rover 200, Triumph Dolomite, Triumph Herald, Morris Ital/Marina, Austin Allegro, Austin Maxi, Austin Princess, Austin/MG Metro, Austin/MG Maestro - almost a rogue's gallery of utter banality and dreadfulness (okay, I have a soft spot for a Herald/Dollie, but I wouldn't want one as my only car).

Brits just wouldn't buy them, not even for a sense of patriotism - we don't put up with it. The strange thing is that Italian and French cars have just as bad a reputation for being fundamentally unreliable (if at least interesting) yet Italian and French cars are number one sellers in Italy and France. What could possibly possess anyone to have bought a Mk1 Renault Twingo escapes me - people that mental should be locked up for their own safety - yet France is full of them. The 206 - built in Coventry - was very popular over here too, though I can't explain why.

If a British car company can make and build a reliable, interesting family hatch/saloon, it'd be like a better mousetrap. But it couldn't be done by an existing name/brand (take one look at the Aston Martin Cygnet to see why not) and resurrecting an old name with the reputations they have would be foolhardy. And then they've got to pitch it in against the Ford Fiesta/Focus/Mondeo, Vauxhall Corsa/Astra/Insignia, Renault Clio/Megane/Laguna, Honda Jazz/Civic/Accord, Peugeot thisweeksnumber0thisweeksnumber, BMW MINI/1 series/3 series, VW Polo/Golf, Audi A3/A4 - you get the picture.


Bristol's problems are (or were) unique to them - a bizarre business model trying to breed demand through exclusivity and pricing, combined with a polarising body style, does not a success make.
 
No offense to you Britons, but it seems to me that the demise of so many British manufacturers has much to do with their snooty image and stubborn insistence on building cars that the builder wants to build, but customers don't actually want to buy. Case in point: Lotus. The Elise and Exige are boutique cars the appeal to an extremely small group of hardcore enthusiasts and egotistical numbskulls who order lime green to be seen, but a product like that is never going to make anybody rich. Thus the new direction. Jaguar's stubbornness: bought out by foreigners and taken in a totally new, profitable direction. Land Rover, too. TVR ring a bell?

The British seem to be just as good at making ridiculous cars as the Italians, just not as good at making money with them.

The Elise is a bad example since at its release it basically did for Lotus as the Boxster did for Porsche (edit: tree'd by Famine).

Jaguar is a bad example too, especially since in the UK at least the XJ series has always outsold the BMW 7-Series, Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class massively. Jag's main problem wasn't advancing with styling trends, and the fact that they've now done that isn't down to their owners (since Tata seem to have quite a laissez-faire attitude to Jag) but more down to them hiring Ian Callum as chief designer. Land Rover too, who've never really been unprofitable.

And again, TVR did well in the UK for the most part. Their main problem was not taking the brand beyond the UK. They specialised essentially in a British take on the muscle car theme and as such it's something that could have gone down incredibly well in the States, had they spent the time to develop cars that would pass U.S. legislation. As Lotus has more recently done.

I agree with your sentiments generally, you've just picked entirely the wrong companies to illustrate your point...

Where we fall down is just cars. Can anyone name the last successful British-designed and built (forget the money trail) small hatchback - the sector that sells the most cars Europe-wide? Or the last successful British-designed and built small family car? Let's be honest, the Mini was a cracker, but not quite the height of reliability (nor safety). The same can be said of the Escort (which got less interesting and less reliable with each generation) and the Cortina. Depending on to whom you speak, the Rover 25/200/MGZR and 45/400/MGZS will be held in high regard or given extreme disdain but they cannot possibly be classed as reliable. Elsewhere there's the Triumph Acclaim/Rover 200, Triumph Dolomite, Triumph Herald, Morris Ital/Marina, Austin Allegro, Austin Maxi, Austin Princess, Austin/MG Metro, Austin/MG Maestro - almost a rogue's gallery of utter banality and dreadfulness (okay, I have a soft spot for a Herald/Dollie, but I wouldn't want one as my only car).

The Rover 200 was the first that came to my mind, though as you said it's not the most reliable of vehicles.

The one which disappoints me now is the Rover 75, which to all intents and purposes was a very good car indeed - it's distinctive, really quite reliable, has a magic carpet ride, handles well (if not particularly sporty) and was priced well too. It's major failing was that it was launched a few years before retro actually became cool and totally misjudged the market. It was sort of fixed with the MG ZT which did quite well and then it got given a V8 which is a car I really want (in either Rover or MG guise) but by then the rest of Rover's product line was taking them down the pan anyway and they couldn't afford to come up with a replacement.

I reckon twenty years down the line though the 75 line of cars will be considered one of GB's all time great cars. Definite future classic at any rate. And incidentally, the French and Japanese bought loads of the things, and the Italians classed it as the most beautiful car in the world in the year it was released.

It was only really the British press who inexplicably panned it...
 
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Fare thee well Bristol.
And your ridiculous business plan.

Hang in there, Morgan.
 
Oddly, the problem I had with the Rover 75 is that it didn't do anything particularly well enough to be interesting. It came across as a (very) poor man's Jaguar S-Type and the S-Type wasn't really mind-blowing either.

The image the 75 conjured was one of Richard Bucket - if Keeping Up Appearances was filmed today, Richard would be driving Hyacinth round not in an Accord-shaped Rover 214, but an entry-level 75...
 
The point of a business is to make as much money as possible from the most amount of people possible.

This Bristol guy sounded like a hobbyist who wanted to share his hobby by selling his cars to people he liked.

This guy belongs in a textbook for business school under the title: What not to do for good business.
 
Oddly, the problem I had with the Rover 75 is that it didn't do anything particularly well enough to be interesting. It came across as a (very) poor man's Jaguar S-Type and the S-Type wasn't really mind-blowing either.

I don't know - I think the S-Type is a bit of a looker!👍 I used to hate it when I was younger but it's really grown on me. It's appointed well on the inside in the true Jaguar fashion, which isn't a bad thing. Never having driven one I have to rely Car and Driver for driving impressions, but from what I read it's acceptable so long as it's not pushed overly hard. But then again, Jaguar S-Types are not sports cars so this is entirely subjective.💡

The point of a business is to make as much money as possible from the most amount of people possible.

This Bristol guy sounded like a hobbyist who wanted to share his hobby by selling his cars to people he liked.

This guy belongs in a textbook for business school under the title: What not to do for good business.

There's nothing wrong with building bespoke sports cars, but an arrogant business plan, as you say, won't go far in a capitalist society if it's mismanaged. Perhaps Bristol management ought to have raised their prices in order to pad the bottom line and keep that list of clients nice and filtered?:lol:
 
I've driven an S-Type R - my dad owned one. Absolute rocketship, unbelieveable power, defeated by a dusting of snow. Lovely place to be but not all that great to look at.

And technically a Lincoln LS.
 
Oddly, the problem I had with the Rover 75 is that it didn't do anything particularly well enough to be interesting. It came across as a (very) poor man's Jaguar S-Type and the S-Type wasn't really mind-blowing either.

Without wishing to go too far off topic (though since we're discussing failed British car companies still I think we're alright...) I really like the 75, and the ZT that followed. I also remember the 75 going down much better at launch than the S-Type - I seem to remember they were unveiled at the same motor show.

It's a car that looked out of place when new but several years down the line suddenly starts to make sense. It has a great ride in a country with crap roads, it looks much more expensive than the £1k or so you can pick them up for now, the design hasn't dated because it can't date (and compare a boggo 75 to a boggo Mondeo/Laguna/Vectra etc from the same time and it's clear to see which is holding up better these days too), and it's unusually reliable for a British car.

It also came for a very short time with a V8 and rear-drive (as did the ZT), which is genuinely one of my favourite cars and one I'd like to own in the not too distant future before it becomes impossible to own anything with a V8.

And to drag it a little more on topic, the V8 especially is a car which I suspect people will have a lot more affection for in the future than a dull or just plain ugly Bristol. They're probably roughly as rare too (only 900 V8 75s).
 
I can't abide the 75 and the ZT is a jumbled mess of trying to graft sporty looks onto a waftmobile. It never sat well with me - the 75 at least didn't pretend to be anything other than it was. The V8 was an oddity - always confused me. It was as if they bought too many modular V8s for the XPower SV and needed to use them up.


Now the XPower SV... that was nice (and still being built by Will Riley). But again, that's an example of the peculiarities of the British car industry - niche market sports car for loonies with disposable. I wonder if they ever shipped any of the 1000hp, nitrous-kitted examples :D
 
I've driven an S-Type R - my dad owned one. Absolute rocketship, unbelieveable power, defeated by a dusting of snow. Lovely place to be but not all that great to look at.

And technically a Lincoln LS.

That sounds like a great experience - wish I could pilot something that cool outside of GT5! I guess so long as you can find a reliable one it's all good. However, I personally think that Ford did a decent job of making Jaguars Jaguars and Lincolns Lincolns. Platform-sharing is all a technicality to me - so long as a cars looks and feels unique it's not a big issue. It's only when cars start to get badge-engineered that I get annoyed...
 
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