Caddy's own Blue Devil

[Joey D]

2009 Cadillac CTS-V will have 600HP Corvette Blue Devil engine!

Source: Autoblog

The new issue of Motor Trend arrived in the mail and our eyes were instantly attracted to this story that just went live on motortrend.com. The MT crew has learned that the supercharged V8 slated for use in the next-gen Cadillac CTS-V will be none other than a "detuned" version of the 7.0L LS7 powerplant debuting in the Corvette Blue Devil, or rather, Corvette Z07. The MT editors expect the version used in the CTS-V to produce about 600 horsepower, or around 100 horses short of what the Z07 will produce.

Pick any possible competitor for the next CTS-V and it's obvious that all will come up short to Caddy's new mega muscle sedan. The BMW M3 and Audi RS4 both produce only 420 horsepower, while the horsepower happy AMG team stuffed only 503 in the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG. Even the BMW M5, which is larger than the CTS, will come up short with an upcoming horsepower bump into the low-500 horsepower range. In short, the CTS-V will offer the same amount of horsepower as the 2008 Dodge Viper, which is pure insanity. GM's got stones, folks, and Cadillac is clearly the prime beneficiary of its newfound fortitude.

Much thanks to Motor Trend editor-in-chief Angus Mackenzie for allowing Autoblog to republish the rendering above. The July issue (you can subscribe here) is thicker than a Thesaurus and our fave in a string of recent good issues from the MT team.

[Source: Motor Trend - pic used with permission, do not reproduce]

 

[exigeracer]

GM's got stones, folks.

... not really.

This is the exact same thing that we see every single time; throw more power at it and expect it to be the best thing in the world.

 

[Jim Prower]

Wait...You got permission from Motor Trend?

 

[Sting]

Caddy might have the engine, but they are no way NEAR the looks of the Vette.

 

[YSSMAN]

... not really.

This is the exact same thing that we see every single time; throw more power at it and expect it to be the best thing in the world.

I'd suggest otherwise, given the development cycle the Sigma II CTS-V has been on. They've had nearly two years to sort out the chassis for the standard Sigma II CTS, and with another eight to twelve months after the standard car's debut, there should be more than enough research, testing, and tuning done to make this a serious high-performance sedan.

All signs point to GM wanting to blow the M5 out of the water, and without having to worry about Toyota's overtake in the market, they can adjust their products to the way they see fit, and therefore the way in which the market sees fit.

...Given that the new CTS-V will be about the same price as an M3, be just a shade smaller than the 5-series, and in theory out-perform the M5... It may turn out to be a bigger performance bargain than its predecessor.

 

[Joey D]

Wait...You got permission from Motor Trend?

Ya it's that law that says anything on the net is fair game

 

[exigeracer]

All signs point to GM wanting to blow the M5 out of the water, and without having to worry about Toyota's overtake in the market, they can adjust their products to the way they see fit, and therefore the way in which the market sees fit.

Too bad they'll be 3 years late.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Lest one forget that BMW is already feeling the pressure with the M5 from the new E63, and is reportedly bumping the power up to the 520-530 BHP range.

Cadillac isn't late, their development cycle is just offset compared to that of BMW's. The current 5-series made its debut a year after the CTS showed up, and the M5 didn't show up until 2006, making the BMW two years late to the high-performance party (the CTS-V showed up in 2004).

...So, the Cadillac gets an update, gets a new V-series model a year after the new car debuts (just like with Sigma I). I'm not sure there is a problem there...

 

[Kent]

I'm with YSSMAN on this one...
It doesn't look like they are doing anything wrong in my opinion.
Furthermore, they seem to be doing things right by keeping up with the possibilities.
I can almost hear it now, people complaining that GM has that awesome engine to use and yet they stick with the older engine? No, that's not good and that's why they are stepping up their game.

What's the old saying?
The best defense is a good offense.
Well I'd say this is one heck of an offensive move.
I just hope they put big enough tires on the front to match what will have to go on the rear!

 

[TopHat]

I really want to see the M5 bieng put to bed, even in the twisties.

 

[Dave A]

It doesn't really matter if a 600bhp saloon happens to go faster than BMW's 500bhp one. I'm not totally against powerful saloons, but there's nothing to rave about when a car with 25% more horsepower turns out to be faster. Rather, the real angle should be that if after all this development, the M5 remains the faster car, then shame of GM. But BMW lose nothing from this car, GM could do.

If they're quicker than the M5, they'll make sure everyone knows about it, but so what, they've stuck more power into it than the M5 has. If they're slower, then they'll probably neglect to bring up the comparison. Ofcourse, that's the way I think about most companies, not just American ones. Everytime the German power wars flare and Mercedes bring up a new AMG model with an extra 6000lbs/ft of torque and eight times the power of the last one I almost cringe. What for. Who are they trying to beat. Just being faster isn't difficult.

It's like that one featured on TopGear a while back, it had so much power it was useless. Literally. It was crap around the track, but it's numbers on paper were staggering. The problem was that unless you managed that perfect run, without an ounce too much or too little power, it was absolute rubbish. Ofcourse, the M5 itself is a victim of the power wars, but the M5 remains highly usable, highly composed and very nice to be inside of, even when your giving it a bit whjch is rarer than I think some people out there realise. Some cars are only nice to be inside of when your pootling about, others, when the cars not in motion, like that AMG Merc I mentioned earlier. Like I said, getting the car to go faster is easy, it's making it a better car than the M5 that's the hard part. Not saying it will be, not saying it won't be. But if I was a betting man...

 

[JCE]

600bhp is fine, even good infact, but the problem is getting all that power to connect to the road correctly AND the car needs the brakes and suspension to go along with it. I'm all for a 600bhp Cadillac--GM just needs to do more than just add more power.

 

[Joey D]

Chances are the car will have Z06 brakes which are fine, and the suspension system on the car isn't dreadful, but it could always be better. I just hope GM doesn't cheap out on the tires like they do so often.

 

[TopHat]

Wait..... Wouldn't this be better served in the XLR-V?

 

[Joey D]

No, no one buys those things because they are grossly overpriced.

 

[Wolfe]

Mercedes-Benz and AMG have proven that brute force does not a class-leading sports sedan make. Unless this CTS-V can out-do M-B and AMG at everything else, it won't stand a chance at taking on BMW or Audi.

 

[JCE]

No, no one buys those things because they are grossly overpriced.

*ding ding ding* Ladies and gentlemen we have a winnar!

Mercedes-Benz and AMG have proven that brute force does not a class-leading sports sedan make. Unless this CTS-V can out-do M-B and AMG at everything else, it won't stand a chance at taking on BMW or Audi.

I'd put my money on the RS6 to not only out perform it but kick its ass at the track.

 

[Joey D]

I honestly could care less if it's better then a BMW or not, it looks cool, will go fast, and probably will handle decently.

 

[exigeracer]

it looks cool, will go fast, and probably will handle decently.

Hahahahah I actually laughed out loud at the last part. Not laughing at you or anything, it just sounded funny.

 

[McLaren]

... not really.

This is the exact same thing that we see every single time; throw more power at it and expect it to be the best thing in the world.

Yeah, here's hoping GM doesn't pull a Ford.

Cadillac isn't late, their development cycle is just offset compared to that of BMW's. The current 5-series made its debut a year after the CTS showed up, and the M5 didn't show up until 2006, making the BMW two years late to the high-performance party (the CTS-V showed up in 2004).

Sorry, but BMW showed off the M5 in early 2004 as a concept. It wasn't released to the public until late 2004 as a 2005 model.

As for the new M5, it'll also have reworked suspension and brakes for better performance, the only thing it'll need to match this 600Bhp CTS-V. I'm not really impressed though except that they're shoe-horning a Z06 engine into the CTS-V. However, it producing 600Bhp to beat another European with almost 100 less horsepower only proves America's solution is to make more power than it's opponent.

 

[Joey D]

It's marketing, high power numbers sell cars.

 

[Azuremen]

It's marketing, high power numbers sell cars.

I need to correct this for you.

Its high numbers period that sell cars. Price, options, speed, etc.

 

[Joey D]

Ya come to think of it, that is a more correct statement.

 

[Appie]

You got served Joey. But i keep wondering why so many horsepower. There must be better solutions lol

 

[YSSMAN]

I just re-read the article there, and they got the engine issue wrong again. They were saying it used a "de-tuned LS7," which is not supercharged as they say in the article. The LS7 is the same unit seen in the Z06, the LSA or LS9 (no official name) from the "Blue Devil" that displaces 6.2L is likely what the car will have.

Considering that the car will probably weigh in around 3600-3800 lbs, it will need the extra power to "blow away the M5" by Lutz's remarks. But, if he was overly impressed with the car, we are likely to understand that it will set a rather high benchmark in the class...

...Its enough to make you wonder what they will stick in the STS-V replacement...

Either way, suspension wise I wouldn't be shocked to see the car using the updated Magnaride setup from the Blue Devil (see photos testing with Ferrari 599). That should allow for the greatest amount of capability in not only sport driving, but also the most comfort when going about town. Its unknown of course how well the suspension will deal with the power, particularly when its predecessor had the axle-hop issue.

The Achilles heel will likely be the choice of transmission for the car. It is questionable how well, if even at all, the 6L80E could match up to the V8, but if they want to appeal to the high-speed, high-lux crowd, they're going to need an automatic. Furthermore, they're going to need a manual transmission for the hardcore folks, and hopefully they can fix the effort issues by going from the T56 to the M10 (as seen in the VE cars in Australia).

The ultimate setup, probably the one nobody is going to expect, is the distinct possibility of an AWD CTS-V. Given that there is an AWD version of the standard CTS being made available, and that in theory it would be available on the CTS-V (if the parts can take the load), a 600 BHP AWD monster would certainly be enough to deal with the M5, but presumably handle the RS6 without much of a problem as well.

 

[McLaren]

I just re-read the article there, and they got the engine issue wrong again. They were saying it used a "de-tuned LS7," which is not supercharged as they say in the article. The LS7 is the same unit seen in the Z06, the LSA or LS9 (no official name) from the "Blue Devil" that displaces 6.2L is likely what the car will have.

Considering that the car will probably weigh in around 3600-3800 lbs, it will need the extra power to "blow away the M5" by Lutz's remarks. But, if he was overly impressed with the car, we are likely to understand that it will set a rather high benchmark in the class...

...Its enough to make you wonder what they will stick in the STS-V replacement...

Either way, suspension wise I wouldn't be shocked to see the car using the updated Magnaride setup from the Blue Devil (see photos testing with Ferrari 599). That should allow for the greatest amount of capability in not only sport driving, but also the most comfort when going about town. Its unknown of course how well the suspension will deal with the power, particularly when its predecessor had the axle-hop issue.

The Achilles heel will likely be the choice of transmission for the car. It is questionable how well, if even at all, the 6L80E could match up to the V8, but if they want to appeal to the high-speed, high-lux crowd, they're going to need an automatic. Furthermore, they're going to need a manual transmission for the hardcore folks, and hopefully they can fix the effort issues by going from the T56 to the M10 (as seen in the VE cars in Australia).

The ultimate setup, probably the one nobody is going to expect, is the distinct possibility of an AWD CTS-V. Given that there is an AWD version of the standard CTS being made available, and that in theory it would be available on the CTS-V (if the parts can take the load), a 600 BHP AWD monster would certainly be enough to deal with the M5, but presumably handle the RS6 without much of a problem as well.

In all honesty, this looks like a lose-lose situation for GM. Lose for people seeing it has 60 more horses, so no one will be surprised if the CTS-V wins, and lose if the M5 continues to dominate.

 

[YSSMAN]

I see your point, and I would agree. Given that its GM, just like Toyota, there will always be people there to pick their cars apart for whatever reason.

The problem is, I've never really trusted Motor Trend for anything, as they are rarely (if ever) completely correct...

...That being said, the general idea is that the next CTS-V will have more than 500 BHP. I think that is a guaranteed, no matter what. The question therefore likely becomes what engine they choose, and how much power they choose to use... These are the estimates I keep seeing:

- 515 BHP LS7 from the Corvette Z06
- 550 BHP version of the LS9/LSA Supercharged V8 from the BD (I'd say this is most-likely)
- 600 BHP version of the LS9/LSA Supercharged V8 from the BD (less likely, depending on the output of the BD)

AWD is the toss-up here, same with transmissions. A coupe version will probably happen, which should make it interesting against the M6, but again, it all depends on what GM wants to do.

...Either way, we're screwed. The American magazines (and drivers) are likely to love it more than the first car, the Europeans are likely to hate it more because of the extra power and the added "brutishness" of the car.

 

[Wolfe]

The problem is, I've never really trusted Motor Trend for anything, as they are rarely (if ever) completely correct...

Motor Trend is awful. No offense to any posters here, but I'm kinda annoyed that so many of their articles end up in this forum.

...Either way, we're screwed. The American magazines (and drivers) are likely to love it more than the first car, the Europeans are likely to hate it more because of the extra power and the added "brutishness" of the car.

Jeremy Clarkson is European, and you know he'll love it.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Nobody buys a Cadillac here in Europe, so people would car less if it has 500, 600 or even 1200 hp. The last years Cadillac had a market share of 0.03 - 0.05% in The Netherlands. Although I personally quite like the exterior of the CTS, Cadillacs just don't sell well here, despite the positive reviews about the modern Cadillacs (CTS/BLS).

I don't think Cadillac should focus too much on the handling. I think it's more important they focus on the desires of the American customer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average American customer cares more about how comfortable their car is in a straight line, than how fast it can round a corner. If they fit the car with an appealing engine that offers more power than the European power saloons, give it a luxurious interior and offer it for a good price, the car will probably be a success in North America. When Cadillac makes a super handling saloon of it, the purists all over the world will admire it, but the car won't sell neither in NA nor in Europe. European customers just give preference to European (German) cars in that market. Lexus has proven to build great cars too, like the GS & LS, but they don't sell either here in Europe.

 

[Kent]

YSSMAN mentioned an automatic transmission and it made me think...
I doubt that will happen.
I don't see any reason for them to suddenly start offering an auto with this car when they wouldn't do that with the previous car.
Chances are that an auto is the last issue on the minds of the people involved with development.