Californians: NO on Prop 54

  • Thread starter TaiLo
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Okay, this upcoming Recall elections on October 7th will have a new proposition called Proposition 54, also known as the Information Ban. This was proposed by Ward Connerly, a UC Regent appointed by Pete Wilson. In basic terms, this proposition, if passed, will stop all collection of information regarding racial identity about any person (schools, law enforcement, employment, etc.; whatever collects such data). It is supposed to give the people of California "racial privacy", and erase the color lines.

I say NO on Proposition 54, but I can't legally vote, so I want to spread the word. Why do I say no? Because it will undermine every effort being done to aid underpriveleged races/ethnicities. Racial profiling can no longer be tracked since officers will no longer have to report the racial identity of any person they encounter/arrest. Hate crimes cannot be tracked. Racial discrimination in any shape or form will no longer be tracked. Want to read more about it? Go to http://www.informedcalifornia.org (this is a site for the position of NO on Prop 54). This affects everyone. Being informed is not a crime!

Please chime in with any opinions about Prop 54 and/or how you would vote on the issue.
 
Well having read the first post, I'm inclined to support Proposition 54.

I think that the only way for race to stop being an issue is for it not to be mentioned. Ever.

Obviously, different races have their cultures and customs, which should be respected, but then I think that the current system has disadvantaged everyone, whether a minority or not. Taking account of race is the first step to being able to discriminate based upon it.

You have to be able to differentiate to discriminate.

Take away that means of differentiation and you're halfway to eradicating the discrimination.

In my opinion, that is.
 
If I were a registered voter in California, I'd be happy to vote yes on proposition 24 at election time.

Sadly, I'm not. The proposition is a great idea. Erasing racial boundries is the only way to completely end mass discrimination. That includes Affirmitave Action. Bleah.

Klos eats poo.
 
Actually, I would disagree with voting yes on 54. This is because without the collection of such data, as I said, certain racial ethnicities will still be missing out. Let's say that 54 is passed: police will no longer have to report the racial identity of whoever they suspect. This means that certain officers can get away with harrassing certain individuals because they are a minority; nobody will ever know. Or, let's say a gang somewhere decides to go kill some Asian dude just because he's Asian or something. The victim's race/ethnicity will not be reported, and we would be blind to such types of hate crimes--it would just be a "regular" crime for "no reason".

Originally from informedcalifornia.org
If the Information Ban passes, California will keep track of every form of discrimination EXCEPT for discrimination on the basis of race and ethnicity, the number one source of discrimination reports. State and local-funded efforts to test for discrimination in contexts such as rental housing will be shut down.
Originally from informedcalifornia.org
Breast cancer. Heart disease. Infant mortality. Sickle-cell anemia. Prostate cancer. AIDS. Tuberculosis. Cervical cancer. These are just a few of the health conditions that affect us differently depending on our race or ethnicity. Connerly’s health exemption covers medical research, not basic public health data systems such as vital statistics, the source of much of our information about diseases and their effects on different racial and ethnic groups. The Information Ban takes this critical knowledge away from the medical community.
It may seem like we are erasing what causes discrimination, but I think we are just blinding ourselves. Part of me agrees with GilesGuthrie, but facing the facts, there is no such thing as erasing race. Prop 54 just makes all of it on the hush; it doesn't make everyone colorblind.
 
I am in California but I have not received my voter pack yet so I don't know what is out there.

If Prop. 54 sounds they way TaLio has described it, I will be voting NO for it, but I will be looking in to the Prop. myself.

I hate the idea of not knowing what a violent criminals race is.
 
If there weren't good things for either side, it wouldn't have been proposed at all, I suppose. I guess I am a bit more biased since Prop 54 was introduced to me as I introduced it to all of you. I, too, still have to look more into it to make a final decision (although I can't vote).
 
Originally posted by TheBigOne
All crimes are hate crimes.
I can't say that all crimes are hate crimes, unless we get all deep into everything. Take stealing as an example, it's more of a "want" crime, than a hate. But I see where you're coming from here.
 
Originally posted by viperman
Technally.

Anyway my parents are voting YES on prop 54.
Not to pry, but did they say why? I'm not here to change anyone's point of view. I'm just trying to give the other side of the story, and see if you would see it how I do. (Just as a note, did you know Gray Davis is against Prop 54 along with all these other people; but it seems like nobody even cares about Gray Davis, so his opinion might not matter for this recall.)
 
Originally posted by Klostrophobic
I don't get why you wouldn't want to erase color barriers.

It makes absolutely no sense.

Agreed, who cares if your black or white or pink. It doesn't matter, and why should it? Why does everyone need to know I'm white? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by milefile
What race is he?
Actually, she's a Filipina (same race as me). I think she meant that if Prop 54 passes, we will kind of be erasing our own racial identities (like how African Americans could be improving, or not, on test scores or in finding employment, etc.), but there would still be racism. It's easy to not write down someone's racial identity, but even if you don't, people could still be racist. It's not like by passing Prop 54 we would be giving everyone colorblindness. It sounds good on paper, but I don't think it will be good in practice.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Man,. this is a real toss up,...

I'll need to hear more factual debate before I make a decision.
Though I've already made a decision I agree I need to hear more factual debate - most people are so completely against 'race as a factor' that they'll vote yes - in fact, I will guarantee this proposition passes overwhelmingly.

The problem is that we've only heard one side of the story because of that.

[size=-3]DISCLAIMER!!!!! This post is not intended to be a personal attack towards Red Eye Racer or anything he represents. If it is construed as such an attack it is merely a coincidence and was not this post's or this poster's intention.[/size]
 
It only shows how pitifully people understand "race". They want to be able to pick and choose, to be able to discriminate only in the ways that please them. They want to say "I'm special because I'm: insert non-white race here", and to be able to dictate to others what that means and how they should think and feel about it. But in a country that's supposed to be free, where people are supposed to be allowed to think for themselves, this shouldn't happen. Those consumed with the idea of race are the biggest biggots of all. They can dress it up in liberal pity and some contrived, statistical "fairness" and it still comes up institutionalized bigotry... and not only that. It is also self-imposed bigotry for people who are incapable of defining themselves in any way other than their race. They claim they say no to 54 to keep bad people under control but it is really their own need to be controlled by institutional, governmental patronage on the sole basis of race.

I beleive Martin Luther King Jr. put it well when he said: "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

There was no stipulation that they had to be asked at every turn what race they are, continually reminded of the fact that they are not white, and that this is why they must report to the government, as if their very existence is something to be tracked and regulated.

People who are for this are weak minded and incapable of perceiving "character". To them there is something more important, control and patronage, which they need more than freedom and individuality.
 
Is it me or is that post contradictory?

Edit - on the seventh read I finally got that the first paragraph does indeed agree with the last few sentences.

Edit - "yes" is to eliminate race as a factor. That's why it doesn't make sense - because he says this:

People who are for this are weak minded and incapable of perceiving "character".

Should be "People who are against this are weak-minded and incapable of perceiving character."
 
Affirmative Action is already going down the hole, but yes, 54 does contradict AA. Oh, could you please make your post #21 a little clearer, milefile? (I'm not saying anything this as a diss against you; it's just a little hard to get your point.) :confused: I just want to reiterate that just because Prop54 passes, it won't mean that people get more race-tolerant.
 
The bottom line for both sides to remember is that you can NOT legislate behaviour.

However, the ethics of your own beliefs on true equality... ?

Thats up to you.
 
A few Months ago, on 19th avenue and taraval in san francisco i belive some white high school students had been forced to end a party with two kegs in stern grove ( a local park) by the police. These kids were not arrested or escroted home but were let wander off drunk. What happened well they wandered into this group of asians that had just graduated from highschool (same with the white kids). Well the white kids began to call the asians "chink", "china boy", and every other racist word they could think of and then began beating them up. This occured in the middle of the day on a busy street in one of hte most diverse cities in the united states (one i think is increasingly less tolerant of homosexuals and races other than white). People called 911 as these white kids were basically kicking these asian kids while they lay on the ground , pretty picture huh. Oh and by the way a few of the kids that were the aggressors were seniors from my old high school which is like 30% white and 40% asian with like 20% phillipinos, 20% chinese, and a mix of other mainland asians. The white agressors were arrested and very few out of the entire gang of guys that attacked these asian kids were pressed with charges. One even escaped because his mother volunteers at juvie and the other two or so are being represented by a father of one of the kids who was present throughout the entire incident and did nothing to prevent he violence from reaching hte level it did. I have only one ? y did no san franciscan get out of there car and pull these white fockers off these kids. Y??? BTW i am 75% white and 25% japanese...

5 summers ago, the first summer of my high school, the white kids from my hs and a predominately white one( SI) and the asian kids (from my old hs and the public schools around sf) had a "little" fight because the white kids again used racist terms to aggravate the asian individuals. It quickly turned bad for the white kids as while they had bats they were out numbered and the asians had knives and hella friends/family... Well when the cops arrived here the white people were bascially let go with very few exceptions and not punished by my old hs, while the asian kids were expelled from my old hs ( the ones that went there) and arrested in greater numbers than there white counterparts.

My first story was meant to show that hate crimes still exist, even if the people involved will probably not ever be charged with them. I personally find it disgusting that any of these kids was spared from juvi, and better yet they will carry this philosophy that white people can treat other races as they did in this instance without punishment as most probably will not be expelled from their new colleges and universities for there actions (most names have been kept private). The second example was to show that this is not some freak occurnce. these racial tensions exist within our society and if we stop gathering ethnic/ nationality based data on such tensions we will have no way of correcting it... IT WILL NOT JUST DISSAPEAR... We must cause its dissapearance through "educating" those who think in a different way than what our society considers the direction we ideally are headed in. This education can be taught via parents, social acitvities when children are young, historical education ( espeically since much racial intollerance is rooted deeply within our society), and of course in actions like those above all agressors in race related violence should be scared ****less in prison where many many scary people live... And if you dont like dealing with african americans, asian americans, white people or any other race... i am sure you will some who will educate you with there fist or even other body parts...

I do not think we, as a society, are ready to forget about race... because in our dialy minds race is a tool we use to demote and classify individuals which would occur wether or not we gathered race related information... Without this info we will never ever recognize we have a serious problem and thus we will remain ignorant and unable to fix a problem america has always had... Maybe its because the white members of our society have always had to justify demoting other races in order to procure their owh survival and success... who knows... but we are not ready to forget
 
Originally posted by GoKents
The bottom line for both sides to remember is that you can NOT legislate behaviour.


Exactly. And any implementation of institutional racism is a legislative attempt to control behavior. The laws that say races must be recorded at every turn didn't come from nowhere. They are attempts to legislate behavior. Saying yes to 54 merely gets rid of a bad idea.
 
Originally posted by TaiLo
I'm not saying anything this as a diss against you; it's just a little hard to get your point..

The story of milefile...
The bottom line for both sides to remember is that you can NOT legislate behaviour.

Ah - they're trying right now - I pledge allegiance, to the flag...
 
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