Can Honda save the NSX or is it best that they discontinue it?(again)

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bloodykills750
Personally i love the new NSX but a lot of people don't and sales are really low. With that said, do you think that there is anything Honda can do to save the NSX or is it better if they just discontinue and don't bring it back again?
 
sales are really low
It's a £140,000 car. Of course sales are "really low".

But you have to qualify what "really low" means. The new NSX sold as many in its first year as the last generation sold across its last five years., and while 2018 was down on that it still ranks among the car's top six years on sale.
 
It's a £140,000 car. Of course sales are "really low".

But you have to qualify what "really low" means. The new NSX sold as many in its first year as the last generation sold across its last five years., and while 2018 was down on that it still ranks among the car's top six years on sale.

Also, implying Honda would discontinue the NSX because of low sales completely misses the point of such a car. The NSX's not a sales champion, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's sold at a significant financial loss. But it's supposed to draw in Honda dealers mr. Normal, and convince him to spend his (modest) budget on a Civic.
 
When Audi sells 5.5x as many R8s as Acura/Honda does NSXs, (which it did in the USA in 2018) I think its fair to say the NSX isn't really competing, sales wise. Maybe Honda is satisfied, but I doubt it. I've seen maybe 2 or 3, ever. If they were losing money on a highly-visible product, it would be one thing. But the NSX kind of faded from view before it was even released. It's certainly no press darling like the R8 was when it was released. I doubt many people even associate the NSX with Honda/Acura products much - it's just not very visible.

-It's too expensive for the 'budget supercar slayer' thing the GT-R or Corvette does
-It's too obscure to be a status symbol like an R8 is.
-It's too derivative looking to create it's own niche of desirability like the LF-A did

It's obviously a good car, but I think those with enough money to buy one are choosing other options for a variety of reasons.
 
I know I don't want them to. I'd like them to start over. As I mentioned, with the brilliant S660. Follow that ethos.

I haven't won Lotto yet. So, a classic NSX and new one, aren't on my radar. :) The latest one, is like me wanting a Countach back in the 80s as a teen(ain't gonna happen today).

The same way Honda did a reset, I feel they should do another reset for the model.
 
The new NSX is an amazing car. It's sad that such an amazing machine doesn't get enough love because it's not European. People have no issue spending 140k on an European car but they do have an issue spending that money on a Japanese or American car even if all things are equal. It's the whole senseless 'status image' of having a Euro car or something.

I hope that it's production continues.. I love the NSX personally. I also want with all my heart for the S2000 come back for sure.
 
I'm literally obsessed with original NSX, but I couldn't care one jot about the new one. It took far too long to come out, and by the time it does it doesn't move the yardstick as far as the original one did. I know people say it's not meant to have the same philosophy (lightweight, driver oriented, daily usable supercar) and supposed to represent the best current tech has to offer, but even if you look at it as a baby 918 for the masses (as much as a $100,000+ car can be), it's still pretty meh when you consider Nissan's GT-R which is based on a 10 year old platform can run toe to toe with it without all that fancy hybrid and torque vectoring stuff. The LFA at least can claim it has better looks/sound/exclusivity. The NSX has what apart from the name?

Now if they came out with a full carbon car, V6 NA that revs to 11k RPM (or the V10 from HSV-010 :drool:) and has god like handling with clever aero/suspension (on the level of Lambo's ALA and McLaren's Proactive Suspension), and still managed to keep the price below $150,000, then that would have been a worthy successor.
 
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it's still pretty meh when you consider Nissan's GT-R which is based on a 10 year old platform can run toe to toe with it without all that fancy hybrid and torque vectoring stuff.

I think the new NSX is just a very different experience. I doubt that you'd confuse one for a GT-R if you were in it. We have a few folks here who have driven both, I'm sure they'd weigh in.
 
Cars from Honda like the HSV and the concept baby-NSX, I feel in hindsight, could have been production cars to build up to the current NSX. It's just, there was the NSX-R GT and then, nothing. Yes, talks of the HSV(which still, would have been a nice way to finish off the S2000's lifespan, from a 9000rpm 4-cylinder to a screaming V6 and then the V10- in my dreams) and then a racing model, but nothing until an all conquering car just jumps on the scene 15 years later.

It's not like a bespoke coach builder or a Hypercar company. In the same breath, the current car does fit the "New Sportscar eXperimental" name. I just feel they reached the mountain top and there are no other mountains to climb. Makes me wonder if Honda ever asked previous NSX owners, what they wanted in a new NSX, similar to how McLaren are going about the next "F1".

Long gone is their old slogan: "Honda. We make it simple."
 
I don't mind the revived NSX but the original is much more special. I'm fine with Honda keeping the new one around but it's never going to be a high volume machine. I've seen maybe one new NSX and I see a surprising amount of expensive cars around.

While making it a hybrid is reasonable enough these days I wish it was more like this:
Honda_NSX-R_Prototype_LM_Road_Car.jpg


I know this isn't real but imagine if it was. It would look great alongside stuff like the 911 GT3.

Honda still also has plenty of room for variants. They could make a roadster (Or a targa like the old NSX offered), or a Type R. Or an all-electric one like the one they ran at Pikes Peak that one time. The revived NSX is worth keeping around as a halo car of sorts regardless.
 
I think the new NSX is just a very different experience. I doubt that you'd confuse one for a GT-R if you were in it. We have a few folks here who have driven both, I'm sure they'd weigh in.

Not denying that they provide a different experience. My point is, given the lead in time and all that complicated tech in the newer NSX, you'd hope that it would at least comfortably beat the GT-R which is based on a platform launched in 2007. But from all the acceleration/laptime tests I've seen they are neck and neck. Handling wise it's good but again nothing special (and some reports understeer due to the front motors not being strong enough to vector in the nose at high speeds). Whereas the GT-R has been described as feeling very analogue and fun despite all the tech and weight.

So we have 2 Japanese halo cars, similar weight and power, similar performance. One is cheaper and has proven track record while one is pretty much a tech demo. Which one would you choose? I think it's clear unless you really wants that hybrid experience or a Honda/Acura fan. It pains me to say this but the new NSX is a big disappointment. I'd rather take the new Supra and use the leftover money to tune it to comparable performance to be honest.
 
Which one would you choose?

I think the probably the NSX. It's hard to know without driving them, I've never driven either. The GT-R is a cool car for sure, but it's also big and not particularly distinctive looking and kinda pointless. Ok, I guess if you're at the track a lot the GT-R would be great. But for street driving I'm not really sure I get it. The NSX is a much more special car for the street. It seems like more of a complete package.

But Nissan and Honda are two of my favorite car companies. So you're asking me to choose between blonde and redhead.
 
I think the probably the NSX. It's hard to know without driving them, I've never driven either. The GT-R is a cool car for sure, but it's also big and not particularly distinctive looking and kinda pointless. Ok, I guess if you're at the track a lot the GT-R would be great. But for street driving I'm not really sure I get it. The NSX is a much more special car for the street. It seems like more of a complete package.

But Nissan and Honda are two of my favorite car companies. So you're asking me to choose between blonde and redhead.

I respect the decision. Having never driven either I wouldn't know for sure either. And before the new NSX came out if you'd tell me I'd get a GT-R over an NSX I would probably laugh. I guess I'm just not a fan of overcomplicated cars, especially if all that tech doesn't make them any faster than a conventional well engineered car.

Now if Honda came out with a new NSX-R, ditched all the e-motors, converted it to RWD and added lots of aero goodies (basically NSX Gr.4 from GT Sport), I would be all over it. It would probably be slower, but driving enjoyment is going to go up massively. But then the Lotus Evora GT430 already fits that bill...
 
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I'd choose the NSX over a GT-R any day. The 2005 Honda NSX-R was a very gorgeous car...

Beautiful Honda NSX-R GT(2005).jpg


Who wouldn't want that beauty? Besides it ca be tuned to match the GT-R's power easily and weight 1000lbs less. Plus it's an MR pure sports car which makes it more exciting to drive while on the other hand the GT-R is a electronically controlled torque distribution four wheel drive that essentially can do half the driving for you... no fun. Sure the GT-R has that extra security while driving on the edge but it lacks the excitement a car like the NSX-R GT could bring.

Still waiting on an MR, 4 rotor, sub 1200kg RX-9 though with 700 plus hp though. I'd spend over 100K if I had it for that monster easily considering how much cars it would slay.
 
Maybe the NSX is just an underrated car. But the fact that it's more flagship of the brand than the flamboyant Civic Type R cannot be denied, even amongst enthusiasts.
 
I suspect it's a car that will get appreciated more in the future after it's gone from showrooms.

It's seen as a cheaper 918 at this point, sometimes it takes time for a car to develop it's Identity.
 
I think the new NSX is just a very different experience. I doubt that you'd confuse one for a GT-R if you were in it. We have a few folks here who have driven both, I'm sure they'd weigh in.
Not denying that they provide a different experience. My point is, given the lead in time and all that complicated tech in the newer NSX, you'd hope that it would at least comfortably beat the GT-R which is based on a platform launched in 2007. But from all the acceleration/laptime tests I've seen they are neck and neck. Handling wise it's good but again nothing special (and some reports understeer due to the front motors not being strong enough to vector in the nose at high speeds). Whereas the GT-R has been described as feeling very analogue and fun despite all the tech and weight.

So we have 2 Japanese halo cars, similar weight and power, similar performance. One is cheaper and has proven track record while one is pretty much a tech demo. Which one would you choose? I think it's clear unless you really wants that hybrid experience or a Honda/Acura fan. It pains me to say this but the new NSX is a big disappointment. I'd rather take the new Supra and use the leftover money to tune it to comparable performance to be honest.
*Waves*

Driven '92, '94 and '05 NSXs plus the new one (all on the road), and a '99 R34 GT-R (road/track), as well as something like seven or eight R35 GT-Rs of various descriptions (standard, mildly modified, Nismo, again road/track).

In very basic terms, I love them all. The original NSX and R34 GT-Rs were very special experiences given I grew up "driving" them on GT, and the modern GT-R and NSX are incredible and massively potent works of engineering.

For me the lineage between the Nissans is slightly more obvious in the way they drive - an R35 feels like a particularly extreme version of an R34 to drive, whereas there's little shared with the way the old and new NSXs drive - but I think the similarity with the Hondas is more nuanced.

One thing I've seen a lot is that the original NSX was some kind of focused, pure, relatively simple driver's car. And while it is, that's not because it was designed that way as such, but because it's a product of that era. People kinda forget that actually when it arrived it was fairly tame and easy to drive. Always a great car of course, but even the Ferrari 348s and Porsche 911s that the NSX was objectively better than in a lot of areas were often commended for feeling more special, having more feedback, being more focused etc.

Viewed in that context the current one is a lot closer. It's still fairly compact (like the original), it uses the best technology available at a sensible pricepoint (like the original), and it performs as well as more expensive vehicles (like the original).

The R35 GT-R is almost an anomaly, in that it took such a massive performance leap only relatively shortly after it replaced the R34. Let's not forget, the R35 is genuinely now a product of a different era than a modern NSX, or Supra, or whatever - it's over a decade old. It might be considered an advanced car like the NSX, but it's actually now looking pretty simple by modern standards!

I think one important thing that people forget about an R35 or a modern NSX too, particularly from those who've not driven them, is that when viewed purely as sports cars/supercars rather than cult icons or follow-ups, they're so much better at doing what they were designed to do than those early cars. An R34 or original NSX would take quite a bit of tuning to get anywhere near their modern equivalents on a track, for instance.

A modern GT-R or NSX has ridiculous levels of performance, braking, precision, grip, traction etc, and are quite remarkable to drive in their own right - I think they're often just unfairly held to much higher standards by people who grew up wanting the originals (mostly with no experience beyond videogames and Youtube).

For avoidance of doubt, my dream garage would have examples of all four. And I suspect the new NSX would end up being the car I drove daily.
 
And I suspect the new NSX would end up being the car I drove daily.

This was the part I was waiting for. The difference in experience between the new NSX and the modern GT-R. I've driven neither, but I suspect that the numbers do not tell the story about how different those cars are from each other. What do you think distinguishes the two in terms of how they make you feel behind the wheel?

22i1w4.jpg
 
Best Motoring videos, show how much modern cars have advanced over the NSX-R.

I've had a track ride in a '12 R35. It was unreal. Four of us onboard and I couldn't believe how much grip it had. Even though I was in the back behind the driver and couldn't move my legs and feet much, I loved it. Not many coupes out there that can carry four grown men and have that level of performance. If I could afford a GT-R, for me, that would be my daily(However, if a fully optioned NSX-R like Keiichi Tsuchiya's was in reach, I'd have that over the GT-R).

I have heard, it's(R35) not the best transmission for stop and go traffic. Probably the greatest caveat. Interested to know, if that's been resolved over the years.
 
This was the part I was waiting for. The difference in experience between the new NSX and the modern GT-R. I've driven neither, but I suspect that the numbers do not tell the story about how different those cars are from each other. What do you think distinguishes the two in terms of how they make you feel behind the wheel?
NSX feels largely like a supercar, GT-R feels more like a fancy sedan of some sort. Both special in their own way but being mid-engined the NSX just has a completely different vibe. Lower seating position, better visibility, swept-back dashboard, being able to see the intakes in your side mirrors like you can in other supercars...

The NSX is also just a bit more liveable. The ride feels better, it's smoother at low speeds (primarily because it's a hybrid), quieter at higher speeds etc. Not as practical, obviously, but then the GT-R's hardly great for such an enormous car.

I also like that the NSX looks genuinely special in the metal, but avoids being flashy like a Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren etc (from my experience I'd say the BMW i8 also treads this line quite well). GT-Rs have always got massive amounts of attention when I've driven them too, but it's primarily from people in like, diesel Mk5 Golfs or lowered E46 318i BMWs, and I'm not sure that's the crowd I want to attract in a car...

Not the greatest shot below, but for a quick phone snap this is one of my favourite photos I've taken, because it reminds me of one of my best ever days at work...

NSX.jpg
I have heard, it's(R35) not the best transmission for stop and go traffic. Probably the greatest caveat. Interested to know, if that's been resolved over the years.
It's never been terrible, but you can tell it's a transmission designed for performance rather than crawling around. One of my favourite things about GT-Rs though is their low-speed behaviour. They make all kinds of funny noises as you shuffle them about - whirring, clanking, scrubbing, ticking. You can tell there's some heavy-duty engineering going on just by the sounds they make.
 
NSX feels largely like a supercar, GT-R feels more like a fancy sedan of some sort. Both special in their own way but being mid-engined the NSX just has a completely different vibe. Lower seating position, better visibility, swept-back dashboard, being able to see the intakes in your side mirrors like you can in other supercars...

The NSX is also just a bit more liveable. The ride feels better, it's smoother at low speeds (primarily because it's a hybrid), quieter at higher speeds etc. Not as practical, obviously, but then the GT-R's hardly great for such an enormous car.

I also like that the NSX looks genuinely special in the metal, but avoids being flashy like a Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren etc (from my experience I'd say the BMW i8 also treads this line quite well). GT-Rs have always got massive amounts of attention when I've driven them too, but it's primarily from people in like, diesel Mk5 Golfs or lowered E46 318i BMWs, and I'm not sure that's the crowd I want to attract in a car...

Not the greatest shot below, but for a quick phone snap this is one of my favourite photos I've taken, because it reminds me of one of my best ever days at work...


It's never been terrible, but you can tell it's a transmission designed for performance rather than crawling around. One of my favourite things about GT-Rs though is their low-speed behaviour. They make all kinds of funny noises as you shuffle them about - whirring, clanking, scrubbing, ticking. You can tell there's some heavy-duty engineering going on just by the sounds they make.
:lol:
I agree about all the noises in the GT-R(atvtrack speeds though).
Most came from us passengers, due to the g-forces. Loudest noise, was this bang sound in the suspension, during weight shifting from corner to corner. Probably a cause of full passenger load.

Never thought I'd get a drive or ride, in the then new R35, as soon as I did. Maybe there's a future ride day for me, in the NSX.
 
I'd choose the NSX over a GT-R any day. The 2005 Honda NSX-R was a very gorgeous car...

View attachment 807285

Who wouldn't want that beauty? Besides it ca be tuned to match the GT-R's power easily and weight 1000lbs less. Plus it's an MR pure sports car which makes it more exciting to drive while on the other hand the GT-R is a electronically controlled torque distribution four wheel drive that essentially can do half the driving for you... no fun. Sure the GT-R has that extra security while driving on the edge but it lacks the excitement a car like the NSX-R GT could bring.

Still waiting on an MR, 4 rotor, sub 1200kg RX-9 though with 700 plus hp though. I'd spend over 100K if I had it for that monster easily considering how much cars it would slay.

Oh yes, I would definitely choose the NSX-R GT over any GT-R either. I was merely saying that if I had to choose between the current new NSX vs R35, I would just go for the R35.

I'm keen to see Mazda make a come back and complete the 90s JDM kings roster (well, there's still the Mitsu Evo missing but they are hopeless as a brand now). 4 rotor as you said with HCCI, design somewhere between the Furai and RX Vision Concept :drool: Sadly due to emissions reg and Mazda not as big as the big 3 (Toyota/Honda/Nissan) I think a new RX car will always be a pipe dream :(

*Waves*

Driven '92, '94 and '05 NSXs plus the new one (all on the road), and a '99 R34 GT-R (road/track), as well as something like seven or eight R35 GT-Rs of various descriptions (standard, mildly modified, Nismo, again road/track).

In very basic terms, I love them all. The original NSX and R34 GT-Rs were very special experiences given I grew up "driving" them on GT, and the modern GT-R and NSX are incredible and massively potent works of engineering.

For me the lineage between the Nissans is slightly more obvious in the way they drive - an R35 feels like a particularly extreme version of an R34 to drive, whereas there's little shared with the way the old and new NSXs drive - but I think the similarity with the Hondas is more nuanced.

One thing I've seen a lot is that the original NSX was some kind of focused, pure, relatively simple driver's car. And while it is, that's not because it was designed that way as such, but because it's a product of that era. People kinda forget that actually when it arrived it was fairly tame and easy to drive. Always a great car of course, but even the Ferrari 348s and Porsche 911s that the NSX was objectively better than in a lot of areas were often commended for feeling more special, having more feedback, being more focused etc.

Viewed in that context the current one is a lot closer. It's still fairly compact (like the original), it uses the best technology available at a sensible pricepoint (like the original), and it performs as well as more expensive vehicles (like the original).

The R35 GT-R is almost an anomaly, in that it took such a massive performance leap only relatively shortly after it replaced the R34. Let's not forget, the R35 is genuinely now a product of a different era than a modern NSX, or Supra, or whatever - it's over a decade old. It might be considered an advanced car like the NSX, but it's actually now looking pretty simple by modern standards!

I think one important thing that people forget about an R35 or a modern NSX too, particularly from those who've not driven them, is that when viewed purely as sports cars/supercars rather than cult icons or follow-ups, they're so much better at doing what they were designed to do than those early cars. An R34 or original NSX would take quite a bit of tuning to get anywhere near their modern equivalents on a track, for instance.

A modern GT-R or NSX has ridiculous levels of performance, braking, precision, grip, traction etc, and are quite remarkable to drive in their own right - I think they're often just unfairly held to much higher standards by people who grew up wanting the originals (mostly with no experience beyond videogames and Youtube).

For avoidance of doubt, my dream garage would have examples of all four. And I suspect the new NSX would end up being the car I drove daily.

Always interesting to read impressions of someone who have sampled all of those cars. Great write up! 👍

I guess at the end of the day unless you have experienced those cars first hand it's always going to be impossible to judge. You can always drive them on games, pore over photos and manufacturer stats but until you actually ride inside one it's still not the same. Until then though, I can only base my preferences on what I know. And from what I know so far I'm still not sold on the new NSX sadly. I really want to like it but something just doesn't feel right.

My perfect garage would be original NSX, Lexus LFA and McLaren F1. That probably tells you the kind of ideal car in my mind. The new NSX while I'm sure provides a thrilling ride and daily usability, doesn't quite have the same philosophy as those three.
 
NSX was never supposed to be a “big” seller, no.

But I’m pretty sure I remember hearing that sales have been so poor that Honda actually paused production, since there’s already so many examples at dealerships (at least, the ones where Honda thinks there would be a market to sell them) that are just sitting for months.

I don’t have sales figures, but I know that they’re less than what Honda was predicting.

The issue with the argument I saw earlier (about it being a flagship car to get people to come check it out for fun, but then stick around and get sold a Civic) is that I don’t think the two are as related.

Look at companies like Audi. You can come in and check out the R8, but then they have the TT, the S/RS line of cars, etc. that still offer lots of performance but aren’t as all-out as an R8.

Nissan too. Don’t like the GTR? Have a 370Z, or the Nismo version of said car. Or pick up one of the “fast” Infiniti cars, like what they had Sebastien Vettel driving in ads for a while.

What does Honda have to compare like that? No S2000, no Integra. no other “sporty” cars, barring maybe the Civic Type R. But that’s still a BIG gap from the Type R to the NSX; I’m still not sure it works as well as other companies.

I also think it really is just down to the name. It’s a fantastic car but it isn’t the “NSX” people wanted. Toyota seems to be getting similar flak for the new Supra for its “BMW” design (even though the cars, by German antitrust laws, were developed almost COMPLETELY separately, AND the last Supra had a Yamaha-co-developed engine and nobody seemed to mind) but that’s a conversation for another day.
 

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