Can someone explain why a stock car is supposed to be fun ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bloodredsky
  • 84 comments
  • 7,489 views
bloodredsky

bloodredsky

Messages
226
Canada
nb
Messages
bloodredsky
Talking about street cars. Every time I drive a stock car I'm like 'Hey this isn't really fun' .

So many rooms out there with tuning prohibited/Spec racing. Where have all the tuners gone to ?

So for suspension - (Most) road cars' stock setup are designed to clear speed bumps, clear concrete lips out of parking garages, pot holes, man hole covers, etc...why would you ever take a car that's tuned to putt around on public roads, with all that crazy suspension travel, onto a race surface? It makes no sense to me and the only answer I've gotten from anyone is 'It's fun because it's the same for everyone.'

Transmission - Who likes four speeds ? Almost every stock car race I've been in, regardless of how many gears the car has, you use four speeds (five sometimes if your lucky). How is this enjoyable ? Am I the only one that feels kinda sorry for non-tuners, because they have no idea what it's like to tune your transmission to almost top out at the end of the longest straight with a decent amount or draft ?

For LSD - Stock settings seem pretty bad for all cars. By saying that, I mean that tuning the LSD seems to reduce slippage. Wouldn't you want that ?

While I question what's up with these stock cars, I do understand the basis of running them. I understand you buy/ change oil / paint and you are done. You are ready to get on track. Add in tuning, and you could add in multiple hours of trial and error (mostly error) to find your best setup/pp/hp/weight/balance/etc for the car and the track your on. So i get that part, it's turn key -vs- time spent. Racers would rather spend all time on track, where tuners are OK with some % of time off track refining the car for each specific situation.

A lot of cars in GT5 got a bad rap because stock, they were garbage - and that kinda frustrated me - because (GT350R for example) with just a little suspension and LSD work, would turn said car (even stock hp/weight) into a nice little machine that was anything but a handful. (some might even say pleasant)

I'd like to see a stock hp/weight series start up that allows suspension/lsd/transmission tuning. Wouldn't that be a nice balance between the two ? Get the best of both worlds. Rant over flame away sorry in advance if i offended any stock hardcore'ers. To each his own. I don't hate you and I don't think my way is better, I just like my way better (as you do your way) so it's cool.
 
It's rather simple, in this game if they can simulate the way a stock vehicle handles and drives then they have done their job. Now enthusiasts can take said stock vehicle and push it to it's limits which would be incredibly dangerous to do IRL but in the game perfectly acceptable. I have many stock vehicles in my garage simply because they feel fine just as they are, I don't need monstrous power nor a lower stance, just a change of paint and I'm out on the track pushing the car to it's limits and enjoying that to no end. This games allows you to do what I do or tune to your hearts content(within GT's somewhat arbitrary limits), hey not a problem. Just enjoy the game however you see fit, remember no two people are alike so we aren't all going to like the same things the same way. Just live and enjoy every bit of what you have.
 
I too despise most stock cars, but if you are trying to compare two cars, stock is the easiest, Lots of people prefer to just get in and drive, spending their time racing and not tuning.

Its also a slippery slope, allowing tuning can create a huge gap in lap times between good tunes and bad tunes, often negating any driver advantage.

Trying to regulate specific mods becomes a nightmare IRL when you can actually see the car, and basically impossible in GT6 online as there are only so many variables you can controls,(Ie, driver aids, hp, weight, pp,etc.)

It's just easier to deal with from an administrative perspective.

Edit- I should clarify 90% of my cars have stock or reduced power, most of my tuning is in susp,trans,diff. Bolting on parts for power isn't really my thing, optimize what you have, no 200% power increase.
 
Last edited:
Well, a lot of cars in GT5 and GT6 are straight up garbage and require tuning (Caterham). On the other hand a lot of cars (Yellow bird) become favorites because of their stock tunes.
I feel like tuning in GT5 and GT6 pushed cars into "unreal" settings and situations. I find enjoyment of driving something that has basis of real life behind it and tuning, in my opinion, creates cars that are no better than made-up vomit like X1.
 
For me, it`s to be able experience the different cars characteristics. To get the "feel" for them and master them around a track, despite the flaws or kinks they may have.

As for the tuning restrictions online, it probably like hognhominy said above.

Besides I won't have the opportunity to drive 99% of them real life. So GT gives me the opportunity to do so
 
If you think untuned cars are all awful and unfun to drive then you're not doing a great job of picking cars. I prefer stock sports cars to race cars across the board. Are you suggesting than a stock RX7 doesn't belong on a track just because it was designed with use as a daily driver taken into consideration? Same with the GTR, STi, M series, etc.

I really don't enjoy tuning at all. I like seeing bland cars tuned up into monsters, don't get me wrong, but I just don't want to sit down for a day tweaking a setup. I have a lot more fun spending that time on the track tweaking my line. I'd rather know the limits of the car and that my ability is improving my times, as opposed to muddling all the additional variables introduced by tuning. Not trying to dismiss tuning at all, this is just how I personally feel.

I really like spec racing a lot. An even playing field means that everything comes down to driver skill but you're still driving a car that has been hopped up for the track.
 
Driving on a track something that isn't meant to be driven on a track is generally fun since it tends to fight back which makes things interesting. It's pure racing cars and their neutral characteristics that often bore me to tears (minus a few exceptions).

Take GT300/500 cars as an example. I'd rather drive a train instead, It'll probably be more unpredictable in corners.
 
bloodredsky
Talking about street cars. Every time I drive a stock car I'm like 'Hey this isn't really fun' .

So many rooms out there with tuning prohibited/Spec racing. Where have all the tuners gone to ?

So for suspension - (Most) road cars' stock setup are designed to clear speed bumps, clear concrete lips out of parking garages, pot holes, man hole covers, etc...why would you ever take a car that's tuned to putt around on public roads, with all that crazy suspension travel, onto a race surface? It makes no sense to me and the only answer I've gotten from anyone is 'It's fun because it's the same for everyone.'
Click to expand...
I have a slightly different take

"It's fun"

I don't care for the balancing aspect. I don't see what the difference is between racing a road car and a race car, I like them both. In real life, the road car is more dangerous and fragile, but danger doesn't apply to GT and fragility is not an issue since you don't need to hand over multiple real world paychecks to fix damage. Road car simply drive differently. Some are pretty interesting, and not all of them are terrible for track use.

Transmission - Who likes four speeds ? Almost every stock car race I've been in, regardless of how many gears the car has, you use four speeds (five sometimes if your lucky). How is this enjoyable ? Am I the only one that feels kinda sorry for non-tuners, because they have no idea what it's like to tune your transmission to almost top out at the end of the longest straight with a decent amount or draft ?
Click to expand...
Four speeds is fine with me. Sometimes that's all a car needs anyway. The 2J, a race car, has 3 gears.


I'd like to see a stock hp/weight series start up that allows suspension/lsd/transmission tuning. Wouldn't that be a nice balance between the two ? Get the best of both worlds. Rant over flame away sorry in advance if i offended any stock hardcore'ers. To each his own. I don't hate you and I don't think my way is better, I just like my way better (as you do your way) so it's cool.
Click to expand...
PD needs to give hosts more control. If I was designing the online section, GT5 would have shipped with the ability to set a race with rules like this.
 
Exorcet
PD needs to give hosts more control. If I was designing the online section, GT5 would have shipped with the ability to set a race with rules like this.
Click to expand...
This would make my life much easier

I'd like to see a stock hp/weight series start up that allows suspension/lsd/transmission tuning. Wouldn't that be a nice balance between the two ?
Click to expand...
This is what I am trying to do with my series, I'm not running exactly stock HP for balance(Trying to get all the lower FIA classes into just 4 is a PITA), nearly all stock weight, SM/SS tires, but full adj susp,trans,diff.
 
Sometimes, it's a rather simple deal.

"I bet you an Audi S4 can lap Spa-F faster than your BMW M3."
Boom, right there, a battle between stock cars. It's the same reason Top Gear laps cars in stock form. It's taking a car as it was built and pushing to its limits. In most road vehicles, you will reach that limit rather quickly (for experienced drivers, at least) and if you have ever taken a car around a track before, you'll quickly noticed the excitement of driving a car on its absolute limit.
 
Biggest problem with stock cars is that most of them have awful lsd settings, almost every single car has too high accel setting. Plus, there are a handful of cars in which the last gear is set to a 0.500 ratio which makes if effectively useless. Don't know why PD does this but it's been happening since GT1, cars like the Dodge Viper (actually, this happens with some american and british cars, haven't seen it in cars from other countries) with a ridiculously long 6th gear that gives it a theoretical top speed of 500 km/h and which of course can't be true to the real stock car.

So every time I try to drive a car in stock form I usually end up cursing at the lsd or the transmission and tuning them, and after that I figure in for a penny in for a pound and tune the suspension too :lol:
 
claudiorz
Biggest problem with stock cars is that most of them have awful lsd settings, almost every single car has too high accel setting. Plus, there are a handful of cars in which the last gear is set to a 0.500 ratio which makes if effectively useless. Don't know why PD does this but it's been happening since GT1, cars like the Dodge Viper (actually, this happens with some american and british cars, haven't seen it in cars from other countries) with a ridiculously long 6th gear that gives it a theoretical top speed of 500 km/h and which of course can't be true to the real stock car.

So every time I try to drive a car in stock form I usually end up cursing at the lsd or the transmission and tuning them, and after that I figure in for a penny in for a pound and tune the suspension too :lol:
Click to expand...
Usually this is to "cheat" emissions testing, and better fuel economy, alot of the higher performance cars will run a higher top speed in in 2nd highest gear, which is why you will see alot more final drive gear changes when people are looking for better performance
From Road&Track test of 2008 Viper SRT10 Coupe :
1 :6250 rpm 62 mph
2 :6250 rpm 91
3 :6250 rpm 127
4 :6250 rpm 165
5 :5450 rpm 202 drag limited
6 : na top speed reached in 5th gear
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
claudiorz
Plus, there are a handful of cars in which the last gear is set to a 0.500 ratio which makes if effectively useless. Don't know why PD does this but it's been happening since GT1, cars like the Dodge Viper (actually, this happens with some american and british cars, haven't seen it in cars from other countries) with a ridiculously long 6th gear that gives it a theoretical top speed of 500 km/h and which of course can't be true to the real stock car.
Click to expand...
That's the Borg-Warner T-56, and yes, it's like that IRL.
The original Viper RT/10 did 80 km/h at 1250rpm in 6th IIRC, that's a proper overdrive :eek:
 
I love driving the stock cars, to me it feels more realistic. If I do decide to tune a car I usually buy another one so I can tune one but also keep the original stock. As has been stated above a lot of the race cars feel exactly the same to drive.

Also, I've noticed that quite a few stock cars have better engine sounds, when I do tune a car I feel that I have ruined the sound and get a generic sound.
 
hognhominy
Usually this is to "cheat" emissions testing, and better fuel economy, alot of the higher performance cars will run a higher top speed in in 2nd highest gear, which is why you will see alot more final drive gear changes when people are looking for better performance
Click to expand...

Vegard
That's the Borg-Warner T-56, and yes, it's like that IRL.
The original Viper RT/10 did 80 km/h at 1250rpm in 6th IIRC, that's a proper overdrive :eek:
Click to expand...

I always thought it was a design flaw in the game, thanks for the info. Still pisses me off, feels like a complete waste and I feel compelled to tune the transmission every time I see it xD
 
When people are referring to "fun", they mean gearbox lag, body roll, wheelspin, and understeer/oversteer. Tuning is the method to reduce or eliminate these problems for a competitive racing machine. Fun doesn't mean competitive, it means spinning your tires around the curves of the track because it makes the car harder to handle and on the edge of being "out of control".

Circuit racing with a drag racing setup is fun, as the suspension isn't tight enough to stay competitive in corners, but is more than quick in the straightaways. The reverse is true as well. Drifting is a form of racing that melds fun & competitive together in one form of driving that can't be compared to anything else. Even though I don't do it myself, it does include moderate tuning to stay on the competitive side of it, but you can do it with stock power & suspension cars with comfort tires.
 
Gee, I don't know, the SCCA seems to be full of primarily stock cars in the thousands of track days they put on throughout the country every year. You seem to be the one who just doesn't get it. Take the car I have for my avatar, it is a 1990 XJS Jaguar with a V12, it is tons of fun to drive...on the street and the track :)
 
Master__Shake_
When people are referring to "fun", they mean gearbox lag, body roll, wheelspin, and understeer/oversteer. Tuning is the method to reduce or eliminate these problems for a competitive racing machine. Fun doesn't mean competitive, it means spinning your tires around the curves of the track because it makes the car harder to handle and on the edge of being "out of control".
Click to expand...

This sums it up nicely.

And if you don't like a car in stock form, you can tune it :)

Isn't that a win-win situation?
 

Latest Posts

Back