Can you become a car enthusiast on a budget?

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mhammam1

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Hey everyone, after a while of playing Gran Turismo and other racing games. I've decided to take it to the next level. How much should i consider spending on a daily driven project car? I was thinking of building an m50. What are your thoughts?
 
To answer the question in the title, yes you can be a car enthusiast on a budget. You don't need to have a modified car to be an enthusiast, I know a lot of people who are petrolheads and they drive a standard hot hatch.

How much can you afford to spend on modifying your car. Do you already have a car you can upgrade, or are you looking to purchase one?

If you're looking at getting a daily driven project car, I would highly recommend getting a car that doesn't need anything doing to it at all so you have a nice clean base for a project.

I've recently picked up a 95 Honda Civic hatchback which is mechanically mint, has full service history and has passed all of it's previous MOT's with flying colors (only failing on a few older ones because of worn tires). Because I live in England, the rear arches are a little rusty and will need fixing this year.
 
Hi, I think it's worth mentioning money alone can't make someone a car enthusiast, you do have to do a bit of searching and find events to go to or groups to be in (just be wary car meets in public are frowned upon by authorities these days...). Don't know what area you are in, I envy the autocross events that are held on car parks in America. I'd love to be into that
 
I was a car enthusiast when I was 12. You don't have to even own a car to be a petrolhead. Buy something you can afford, and enjoy it. Realistically you're the only one who knows how much you can spend on a car, and there's no 'should' or 'shouldn't' when it comes to the budget. Spend what you're comfortable with. Some people spend a few hundred quid on a cheap car and enjoy it, and some people spend hundreds of millions on a collection of rare exotics and classics. Some people spend thousands modifying a car themselves in exactly the way they like, some people pay someone to modify their car, some buy a few key bits and leave it at that, and many leave their car totally stock. There's no right answer there, either.

Do what you enjoy, and don't worry too much about what other people think. The most important part about being a car enthusiast is liking and enjoying cars.
 
Zona
To answer the question in the title, yes you can be a car enthusiast on a budget. You don't need to have a modified car to be an enthusiast, I know a lot of people who are petrolheads and they drive a standard hot hatch.

How much can you afford to spend on modifying your car. Do you already have a car you can upgrade, or are you looking to purchase one?

If you're looking at getting a daily driven project car, I would highly recommend getting a car that doesn't need anything doing to it at all so you have a nice clean base for a project.

I've recently picked up a 95 Honda Civic hatchback which is mechanically mint, has full service history and has passed all of it's previous MOT's with flying colors (only failing on a few older ones because of worn tires). Because I live in England, the rear arches are a little rusty and will need fixing this year.
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Well, i do not own a car that can be tuned. But i'm thinking of buying a car that can handle a turbo without blowing up the engine and of course some suspension upgrades on a budget of $10,000 dollars in total. My friend drives a turbo E30 S14 and its kinda interesting to drive one of these. I don't really care if its a 4 door or a convertible. If it looks nice and can handle a turbo pushing around 400 hp to the rear i'm fine.
 
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mhammam1
Well, i do not own a car that can be tuned. But i'm thinking of buying a car that can handle a turbo without blowing up the engine and of course some suspension upgrades on a budget of $10,000 dollars in total. My friend drives a turbo E30 S14 and its kinda interesting to drive one of these. I don't really care if its a 4 door or a convertible. If it looks nice and can handle a turbo pushing around 400 hp to the rear i'm fine.
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$10k budget is good, can get a lotta of cars with that. Are you US$, CA$ or AU$?
 
mhammam1
Damn, how much should i consider spending on a fast reliable car?
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A lot. As far as I'm aware it's very, very rare for anyone to have a fast, reliable car first try. Modifying cars isn't something you can just jump into by throwing money at them, unless you have a very good mechanic(s) who is willing to spend a great deal of [billable] time working on your car for you. Even then, getting the right work done takes knowledge, restraint, and careful planning. You can't just say that you want a reliable, fast modified car and have it appear out of thin air. In my opinion you're better off starting with something reliable, cheap, and fun, or buying something that's already reliable and fast and making small changes to it. Most of the people who own reliable, fast cars have years or even decades of experience with project cars and know exactly what they need to do. More importantly, they know what they want. I could tell you to go out and buy a WRX and stick a massive turbo on it, or I could tell you to buy an MX-5 and drop an LS in it (neither of which is a recipe for reliability without the proper expertise and a lot of money). They're totally different approaches, and so it's important to actually try things out to find out what sort of things you really want from a car. Driven wheels? Gearbox? Engine placement? Seats? Interior space? Comfort? Steering feel? Handling balance? Power? Grip? Torque? There's no single answer, so if you're absolutely set on modifying a car then I recommend starting with something cheap and going from there.

Something else I'd like to point out is the range of technical problems you'll likely face. Unless you're starting with a car that already makes close to your target power output, you'll need to take a careful look at every component in the drivetrain to see if it can handle the power. You'll have to make sure the gearbox can handle the power, and you may need to upgrade the clutch. You may also need to upgrade the diff, which is a good opportunity to get a decent LSD. With more power you'll also need better brakes, and that could potentially necessitate larger wheels. In addition, you'll have the potential to be entering and exiting corners much faster and you'll be putting down more power through them, so you'll want to take a look at the suspension to see if it needs altering to handling the additional performance. The engine itself is another area which will need upgrades. Depending on how upgraded it is you may need to upgrade peripherals like the cooling system and lubrication system. You'll likely want to upgrade the exhaust and potentially the intake, as well as the fuel system. And of course, you'll almost certainly need to retune or replace the ECU.

I don't want to dissuade you from buying and modifying a car, but I do want to help you learn as much as possible before you do it so that you know what you're getting into. The easy route is simply to buy a car that's already fast from the factory; it's what most people do. It's easier and will usually get you a car that's reliable and refined enough to drive on a daily basis, but still fast and fun when you want it.
 
How long have you been driving for? Does you budget include insurance costs and the premium you’ll pay for driving a modified car?
 
mhammam1
Well, i do not own a car that can be tuned. But i'm thinking of buying a car that can handle a turbo without blowing up the engine and of course some suspension upgrades on a budget of $10,000 dollars in total. My friend drives a turbo E30 S14 and its kinda interesting to drive one of these. I don't really care if its a 4 door or a convertible. If it looks nice and can handle a turbo pushing around 400 hp to the rear i'm fine.
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For $10k (I don't know where you live), I'd recommend that you get a used honda civic (or something similar) as a daily driver and a used E36 BMW for more sporty driving (such as track or autocross). If it's autocross, maybe a miata, but for track days I'd go manual E36. Your E36 can be pretty trashed, interior doesn't need to be in one piece, AC doesn't need to work. You can spend the rest of the money (and your time) making sure that it is in good shape mechanically.

400 hp is too much for someone who is thinking of becoming an enthusiast. For track (or autocross) the very first thing you'll want is good tires. The next thing you'll probably want is good brakes. Next it'll be suspension upgrades. Acceleration is not going to hit your radar for a while.

Learn how to heel-toe.

Edit:

A better route (which will blow your budget) is to get a pickup that can tow as your daily, and then you don't have to register your track car or insure it (although that makes it tough to test-drive after you've made changes). You can put it on a trailer and haul it to the track.


Edit 2:

Your best friends as a car enthusiast are parking spots at home (so that you can have dedicated cars), a garage, and some tools. It's hard to do it (especially when it comes to "modding" to 400 hp) with no garage. It's also a terrible idea to start making modifications to a car that you're counting on to get you to work. Also a terrible idea is to thrash your daily driver at the track.
 
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mhammam1
Damn, how much should i consider spending on a fast reliable car?
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If the bar is 400Hp, $20,000-$30,000 for something cheaper that's already been modified to 400Hp (240, STi, Evo, etc.). By that price point, you should be paying for a car that's still in acceptable condition (mileage, wear and tear, and so forth in relation to year) as well as being modified properly. At that point, the owners are already trying to maximize their return in mods.

Stock with 400Hp, is going be $30,000 and up easily. Cheapest thing I can think of with that much horsepower out of the box is a C5Z, but if you're just starting out, these aren't the cars for you. These require maintenance costs to be taken into heavy consideration.

I would take @Danoff & @Beeblebrox237's advice and start out around 200-250Hp. That power range knocks off a lot of the money you'd need for an immediate 400Hp & puts you a position to achieving more power however you want (turbo, s/c, n/a) with figuring out the limitations of the motor as well. Do research on this as well. If you plan on sticking with this car for the long haul, you need to find a project that has a motor capable of building alongside your experience. At some point, you'll need to tear the motor down and start building the internals to handle higher horsepower. In other words, find a project with a large aftermarket & has been pushed to extremes. You don't need to be in a car where you're Elon Musk modifying it to a point no one else ever has.
 
The best way to get the most performance out of a car is to start with something built from the factory with the performance you want. That way it's reliable and doesn't break the bank .

For 400hp, starting with something like a Camaro would probably work. It's easy to modify, parts are cheap, and it can turn out good power numbers with little effort.

It'll take a ton of money and know how to turn a slow car fast, plus you nuke the reliability. Although, if you just want to have fun, get a slow car, put good tires on it, and do some minor suspension stuff. You'll enjoy the car and it'll be reliable enough .
 
I'm gonna circle back and add some thoughts to my previous post if not for any other reason that just for posterity in this thread.

The reason I say 400hp is too much, is because I haven't met that many people that are so good at driving that they need 400 hp. That kind of number is really a "street" number. It's the kind of number that gets thrown around because you want to be able to out-accelerate the people you're around at stoplights and take off on the freeway when you get a clear passing lane. The high horsepower numbers are usually driven by a desire to very quickly accelerate in a straight line briefly. Street driving is very conducive to that, and makes you think... gosh I could use a little more power.

Track (or autocross) is a totally different animal, but it's where "real driving" happens. You don't really appreciate how long those straightaways are until you've been on a few and have seen the kind of speed numbers you can rack up at the end with a fairly low horsepower car. Coming in to turn 1 on just about any "normal" track you'll be doing well over 100 mph, even in a car that's low on horsepower. It's about then that you'll pucker up because you're going to threshold brake at 115, 120, 125 mph to avoid going into a field, a gravel pit, a wall, whatever is at the end of that straight. It is definitely enough to make you want a brown colored racing suit. 400 hp means you're taking that turn at 160? more? Time to count on those brakes! (and you'll be doing that on every single lap)

It's actually detrimental to have too much horsepower when you're learning how to drive smoothly. It can cover up your driving mistakes and make it more difficult to understand what happened when you spin. Everything happens a little faster, a little harder, a little less perceptibly. While you're learning how to get on the gas easily as you unwind the steering, you need something that's not going to punish you, hard, for getting it slightly off.

There is so much to learn when it comes to driving well. What line should you take, when should you brake, how early can you get on the gas, heel-toe perfection, how to overtake, how to be overtaken, how to correct when you've messed it all up. And then you get into a different car and have to learn how cars differ when it comes to each of those things.

I had an absolute blast driving around a race track in a car that cost $2k and had unimpressive acceleration. I even managed to pass a brand new lotus. Trust me, taking an old slow car that handles well to the track is NOT going to be boring unless you're just an amazing driver... and even then... it's hard to picture.

Tires matter so much, and brake-fade is another brown jumpsuit moment.
 
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What cars have you owned in past? Will you track?
I would abandon this 400hp idea, get an unloved miata, buy tools, do some maintenance, drive wheels off of it, if you lack power then do a turbo project, I'm sure you will be blown away by a 200whp (if turbo) 1000kg/2200lbs car this size.
 
Danoff
You don't really appreciate how long those straightaways are until you've been on a few and have seen the kind of speed numbers you can rack up at the end with a fairly low horsepower car.
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Definitely this.

On the last bout of track driving I did, I hit 147mph in a Nismo GT-R at the end of the Hangar Straight at Silverstone. And that's coming from a relatively slow right-hander at Chapel from the international circuit, rather than the quicker left on the GP circuit. It felt really, really fast, and that's because it is really, really fast, and a car with that much power gets you to that kind of speed in a relatively short space of time. Which you need to shave off again for the next corner.

Even my Miata - recently dynoed at just over 90bhp at the wheels - will nudge 100mph at my local track. With around double that power, the last car I owned through work added another 20mph to that on the same straight. I'd say a car of around 200bhp is a fairly sweet spot for learning to drive on track - it's not so fast that as a novice you'd be terrified by the speed, but it's enough power that with decent technique you can be right on cars with a great deal more power.

Good brakes make track driving just as enjoyable as power though. The ability to hit the pedal corner after corner, lap after lap without a performance drop-off is satisfying and confidence-inspiring in equal measure. A fast car is no fun if you struggle to slow it down at the other end...

Buying a car that corners well is also satisfying. You don't need as much speed if you don't need to lose as much speed for the corners.

So I'd echo what other people have said here @mhammam1 - set your sights on slightly lower power (for lower cost and hopefully more reliability) and learn the craft of driving first.

And don't rule out front-drive either. Will probably be cheaper to buy in the first place, and while the high-powered options are fewer, a good front-driver can be huge amounts of fun and very good to learn with.
 
As much fun as 400hp on a track sounds. In reality, as others above have stated, it comes with it's own problems. For starters, you need to be able to transmit that power to the track surface to make use of it otherwise you'll be spinning wheels or feathering the throttle for too long and only making use of that power at the end of even a decently long straight, at which point you'll be shortly onto the the brakes anyway. Cars with around 400hp tend to be heavy too, if they're a standard road car, which again as others have said is your best bet since modified cars just don't have the same level of reliability. So a heavy car is going to be tough on brakes and tough on tyres and probably not as nimble or adjustable in a corner.

To be honest, on a track the fun comes from taking corners quickly not from going quickly in a straight line. Track driving rarely gives you a good sense of speed anyway. After the initial enjoyment of pushing 400hp down a straight, the novelty will soon wear off (you'll probably find that eventually happens with road driving too). It becomes the norm. You'll just crave more power to get the same rush. The real enjoyment comes from manhandling the car round corners as quickly as you dare push yourself, so you might as well aim for a car that naturally handles well to start with.
 

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