Can't Rally, which car

[Popeye]

Ok. Gonna throw this one out there. I will happily admit to not being able to rally worth shinola.
Which car is the best to learn in and the best circuit to learn on. I refuse point blank to go and try to do these with the dodge.
I want to get the enjoyment and satisfaction of learn and beating this myself.
Everyone has an opinion as to which is best, but if someone says a renault 5 turbo fine, or the cappucino, great. Just the 450+ monsters are ok for overkill, but teach nothing.

 

[VTiRoj]

Any Impreza or Lancer will be good enough to teach you the basics on dirt. Less than 300bhp, 4WD, they're perfect for learning in my opinion.

The best rally course... I have no idea. One with a large range of corners should be good enough. But why concentrate on one course?

 

[killer450235]

I'd try the '85 Lancia S4.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Ok. Gonna throw this one out there. I will happily admit to not being able to rally worth shinola.
Which car is the best to learn in and the best circuit to learn on. I refuse point blank to go and try to do these with the dodge.
I want to get the enjoyment and satisfaction of learn and beating this myself.
Everyone has an opinion as to which is best, but if someone says a renault 5 turbo fine, or the cappucino, great. Just the 450+ monsters are ok for overkill, but teach nothing.

You're gonna get a lot of reponses, and many of them will be good. Here's mine:

Get the '92 Mitsubishi Lancer GSR. No VCD. No LSD. None of that stuff. Get dirt tires (duh). Keep your power lowish. Suspension tuning can be minimal to your taste.

Other than this, it's all about learning the tracks...what you can get away with off-road (as opposed to on-road). You'll be delighted that oversteer is allowed and you'll need to control it.

Learn to brake early in a straight line, crank your steering hard (so you start sliding) and kick in the throttle as needed to pull you out of your slide. On snow tracks, you'll not want to slide, tho...it's more important to keep as much traction as possible.

The '92 GSR is just one car of many you can practice with. I like it because it's not too powerful, and it's got great traction. In real-life, it also has 2 differentials--one center and one rear (an oddity in the early 90s)-- because it was supposed to be based on the WRC racing version so Mitsubishi could meet WRC regulations.

This is unfortunately why it understeers so damn much on the pavement. But off-road? You may find that the stock drivetrain works really well.

 

[sesselpupser]

Get a weak 4WD car as described above, then learn how to use weight distribution and countersteer to get round corners.

When you accelerate, the weight of your car is shifted to the back and away from the front tyres (no really, it is!) which means you get no cornering traction. By accelerating then suddenly lifting off the accelerator completely throws the weight forward but because you're not braking you get full use of the front tyre traction to steer, while the rear tyres are totally unloaded and so the rear becomes oversteery. This is known as lift-off oversteer, and in an FWD car in real life it can be fun indeed.

Countersteering is kind of similar, but instead of distributing the weight to the front and back, it does it side to side. By steering into a corner, the weight is pushed by centrifugal force to the outside tyres, and reduces the weight on the inside, so by turning right the left side of the car becomes 'heavier' than the right, if you like. By turning away from the corner you intend to take, then quickly steering into it again, the weight gets thrown from one side to the other.

So say you've got a medium left hand turn, by turning right before going into it the left hand side gets loaded but the right is unloaded, then turn left and the weight is thrown over. In combination with lift-off oversteer, the car practically turns itself, which just lets you get on with deciding when to accelerate again, which is usually when you're pointing in the direction you want to go.

Thats the beauty of 4WD cars, they require no work to straighten out of a drift/oversteer situation, just accelerate and all four wheels dig in and off you go, basically.

On snow, however, I've found countersteering with lift-off oversteer to be literally asking for trouble, so what I tend to do is increase the front brake bias to around 7 in the front and 3 at the back then using a lot less countersteer combined with a bit of braking to get round the bend before getting back on the accelerator.

Its generally best to time the lifting off/braking to coincide with when the car is halfway through changing direction, so basically when its pointing in the direction it was going before you started steering.

 

[PARAGON GT]

I've used a '99 Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) for the majority of the races.

It's 4wd system has a very unique feel to it on the rally courses. Similar to a standard 4wd, but a little more . . . well . . . Its hard to explain. Give it a shot and you will see what I mean.

I ran it stock through the easy races, stepped it up a little for the normal ones, and built it a little more for the hard races. I might have 2 races left to do in the hard races.

None of the tuning on the car had any permanent effects that would keep me from running the car at 100% stock again. (No weight reduction, or permanent engine mods.)

I run the standard GT-R over the V-spec model. Just had a better feel to me.

Give it a shot. Can't hurt anything.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd recommend Swiss Alps as the place to start. It's nice and wide and it doesn't punish you if you get it out of shape the way Cathedral Rocks, Grand Canyon and Tahiti Maze will. Once you're comfortable with Swiss Alps, I'd recommend you step up to Cathedral Rocks Trail II. It's a lot narrower and the corners are tighter, but while there's a rhythm to it, you're not going to lose a truckload of time for getting out of sync with it. At this stage, you may want to consider takng on Ice Arena for snow driving as it's both fast an flowing - except maybe the little dogleg before the main straight - and Chamonix is a huge step up in terms of difficulty.

As for cars, I actually quite like the Mitsubishi Starion '84, but the problem is you won't get it until you clear the Grand Canyon (Hard) races, an while it's a very nice track, it's the most difficult the game has to offer. But check the car lists under Arcade Mode; I can't remember whether it's available from the word Go or not.

 

[Popeye]

I expected a lot of replies and I am grateful for all your help. Everyone will give different advice and different cars and I am grateful for that.
It frustrates me that I have problems with rallying and snow driving, because here in Sweden we get to snow drive every year. And while not a Swede, and whilst driving a 60 ton truck on snow and ice I suppose the difference is the weight. Every year i regularly drive in temperatures of -30. But the principal must be the same. No sudden movements, and no excessive throttle movements. Believe me, I really value your advice, so please keep giving it. I will try anything. Something will work.
Big thanks guys.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'll add a vote to Swiss Alps being the course to train on. It develops your skills in high speed sweepers, mid range sliders and slow hairpin turns with a couple of chicane like snapback corners. It's a large and VERY WIDE course.
From there I would step up to Cathedral I, and maybe add Chamonix in there as it's a blend of tarmac & snow. For normal Tarmac, go Costa Di Amalfi first, then move up to Citta Di Aria. Tahiti Maze is really good for learning how to go around hairpins. 👍 As for wet tracks, go Tsukuba Wet first (obvious choice, you should already have raced there enough) and then move up to George Paris V.

In the car department I would look at either the Evo 1 or the WRX STi V2. Both very basic but the STi has 202Kw vs the Evo's 180ish Kw so for performance, the STi is the way to go.

 

[RzB]

Swiss Alps is wide enough that I can cleanly run the escudo almost full throttle... so yeah it's wide... once you get the hang of rallying with 4WD cars, you should try muscle cars alot of fun...

I disagree with george V though I ran a stock DB9 coupe there it slaughters that course...(I won all 3 races with the DB9 as well)

George V is simple and easy if you take a minute to drive slowly around the course then you know where to brake/get on and off the accelerator..

 

[Monkey House]

Just don't start out on Grand Canyon. You'll only get discouraged.
I STILL can't finish a race on that damned track.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'll add a vote to Swiss Alps being the course to train on. It develops your skills in high speed sweepers, mid range sliders and slow hairpin turns with a couple of chicane like snapback corners. It's a large and VERY WIDE course.
From there I would step up to Cathedral I, and maybe add Chamonix in there as it's a blend of tarmac & snow. For normal Tarmac, go Costa Di Amalfi first, then move up to Citta Di Aria. Tahiti Maze is really good for learning how to go around hairpins. 👍 As for wet tracks, go Tsukuba Wet first (obvious choice, you should already have raced there enough) and then move up to George Paris V.

In the car department I would look at either the Evo 1 or the WRX STi V2. Both very basic but the STi has 202Kw vs the Evo's 180ish Kw so for performance, the STi is the way to go.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Chamonix count. The tarmac sections are very frustrating; I find the only way I can get through without nudging the walls hard enough for that blasted penalty is by only giving it half the juice I normally would.

 

[Simplex 4100U]

Audi RS6 Avant, & take it out on Cathedral Rocks Trail II(or whatever the long one is called). the RS6 Avant has about 440hp, but even though it has that much power, the weight basically knocks off about 240 horsepower from it, so basically, it's got roughly the same performance as any WRX Sti. also some other cars you may want to consider:
1969 Camaro SS/Z28-- good amount of hp, drifts nicely(plz don't oversteer)offroad.
RUF CTR2--yeah, i know it's overkill, but the handling is just perfect!
Silverado SST Concept--works like the camaros, but drives a little heavier(some skill required)
Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4--works like the RS6, but it's lighter, yet less powerful, but can easily outrun a stock WRX.
Nissan Stagea 260RS Autech Version--basically a heavier Skyline GT-R (R34).

also, no mods needed for these.(except dirt tires, of course)

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Chamonix count. The tarmac sections are very frustrating; I find the only way I can get through without nudging the walls hard enough for that blasted penalty is by only giving it half the juice I normally would.

Both snow tracks are very difficult. Out of the 2, Ice Arena is easier than Chamonix simply because there is less to remember....but (as I said) they're both toughies.

 

[a112]

Go to license center and try to gold as many rally exams as you can,watching the demo examples can help you golding it.

 

[mafia_boy]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Chamonix count. The tarmac sections are very frustrating; I find the only way I can get through without nudging the walls hard enough for that blasted penalty is by only giving it half the juice I normally would.

But the point of that course is teaching throttle control. Yes, between the black ice on the tarmac and the snow you have no problems sliding around and start worrying about being a penalised pancake off the wall.

Also, because of that it takes the button mashing out of a GT4 player so you have to feather it here or there and stab it other times, and some sections are actually better using a handbrake with throttle or brake. Apply some of those same techniques to other tracks like the 'ring and you see the seconds slice off your lap times there.

Ice Arena you can wallride 80% of that course and win sorry to say, making it easier for most people to get through that race and not really teaching anything. 👎

 

[crabsncancer]

3 things I did to pass the HARD Rally missions (after smashing 2 controllers):

1) Must learn to Drift through the corners using a combonation of Breaking + Hand-Break.
- For hair-pin turns, Break to an appropriate speed, then apply a little hand-break to maintain that high speed around corners. The computer car will try to take turns normally forcing him to slow down a lot more than you allowing you to maintain higher speeds through corners and gain Great amounts of ground. I learned this technique playing Grand Canyon OVER and OVER again.

2) It's okay to have Huge Horsepower for your car, just adjust the Limited-slip so the Torque distribution is more in the front than in the rear; I use a FRONT:10/25/10 REAR:10/20/10 This keeps your car from:
- Spinning out
- Drags the car rather than Pushes it leading to more stability on dirt and snow
- There's still enough torque to push you forward so you can drift and not slow down.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Ice Arena you can wallride 80% of that course and win sorry to say, making it easier for most people to get through that race and not really teaching anything. 👎

How on earth are people able to wall-ride races and not get penalized? I swear....any unintentional contact with a wall, and 90% of the time I get the damn penalty!

 

[PARAGON GT]

You start in close, keep your nose off the wall, and you drag your back bumper on it.

At least that's how I did it.

 

[mafia_boy]

You start in close, keep your nose off the wall, and you drag your back bumper on it.

At least that's how I did it.

Spot on there Paragon and on Ice Arena it can actually be slammed in VERY hard if it's a pretty flush whack to the rear end or the rear corners. I started off with this when I started GT4 (before I felt I was cheating). And it can be used at Costa Di Amalfi too if you do it right, one example is this.

Smack the back corner of the bumper against the wall at the right hand bend at the end of the straight across the top and you can get away with it. But I mean rear only, you hit it side on and it's 5sec penalty. So your car has to be turning around the bend but more flung out so the rear is facing that wall...semi-scandinavian flick style. 👍

 

[iLex]

Try to do it track by track.
First do EASY-NORMAL-HARD of one track, then go to the next. This was an efficient way for me to do the dirt challenges.

I loved the Evo Super Rally Car (I think it is called) for the dirt driving. It's relatively easy to drive and can be very fast.

The whole wall riding thing didn't work for me... I got the hang of rallying before I got the hang of wall riding :-)

 

[Popeye]

Thanks guys for all your help. Am doing the licenses at the moment but skip the rallying ones to go do the missions. When I have cracked those, then I'll have a real good try at rallying. Did manage to post a bronze in the S license around Chaminix, so I'll keep trying. I absolutely refuse to give in or up on this. I want to be able to do this. I HAVE TO DO THIS. But welcome anyones and everyones input.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Thanks guys for all your help. Am doing the licenses at the moment but skip the rallying ones to go do the missions. When I have cracked those, then I'll have a real good try at rallying. Did manage to post a bronze in the S license around Chaminix, so I'll keep trying. I absolutely refuse to give in or up on this. I want to be able to do this. I HAVE TO DO THIS. But welcome anyones and everyones input.

Well you got the right attitude. Determination, skill, some brainwork, and a bit of luck will get you where you want to go.

Funny thing. All this applies in real-life, too. But I'd get off-topic if I go there.

 

[Popeye]

👍 Thanks Parnelli. I will get there. Just like you did with 34. ( And going off topic, when you are ready with the manual, I'll idiot drive it for you )
Just hate it when I can do something in real life but fails me in a game. Can snow drive, yeah, not like a finn, but getting used to it. But I will do this. At first I wanted to cheat. Get a save and race, but now, I am getting the sense of achivement from the game, starting from scratch, doing it all myself, and taking advice, and using it. The enjoyment I got when I passed the mission 11 was great. Now I just got to try to enjoy the rallying. And I will.
Thanks everybody for your support and ideas. They are still more than welcome.