Car/Track/Event-Test

[KAlex122]

I edited the thread title as i will do more than just the Alfa vs. Alpine "Test".

Alfa vs. Alpine // Red vs. Blue // Italy vs. France

Hi, i did a little test with the Alfa 4C '14 and the seemingly relatively similar Alpine A110 '17.
(I'm not the greatest driver, would be DR:B is i was still online and i'm golding a bit more than half of the online Time trials. If a car is slow i can be relatively consistent.)

Both are two little MR cars, lightweight and in my eyes pretty to look at. Who wouldn't like one of these in there real life garage?

I did my testing at Tsukuba (stock + 550PP + 600PP) and then branched out to use those cars at the 550PP events of the Clubman Cup+.

Tsukuba - stock settings, SH tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 530PP, 175kW@6000rpm, 350Nm@2000rpm, 950Kg ---> PB: 1:04,239 Optimum: 1:04,135
Alpine A110, 528PP, 185kW@6000rpm, 320Nm@2000rpm, 1.103Kg ---> PB: 1:04,395 Optimum: 1:04,107

Tsukuba - 550PP, SH tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 550PP, 190kW@6100rpm, 357Nm@4100rpm, 954Kg ---> PB: 1:02,924 Optimum: 1:02,836
Alpine A110, 550PP, 208kW@6200rpm, 347Nm@5100rpm, 1.106Kg ---> PB: 1:02,958 Optimum: 1:02,783

Tsukuba - 600PP, SM tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 600PP, 233kW@6000rpm, 426Nm@4100rpm, 953Kg ---> PB: 0:59,882 Optimum: 0:59,838
Alpine A110, 600PP, 233kW@6000rpm, 402Nm@5100rpm, 1.104Kg ---> PB: 1:00,457 Optimum: 1:00,352

First Conclusion:
The Alfa 4C at stock settings drives superb. Very smooth ride, feels like a very planted FR car. The Alpine is much more all over the place and drives like a typical GT MR car.
At 550PP i tried a custom suspension with pretty standard/medium settings. Both feel relatively close to each other.
At 600PP the bad habits of the Alpine come out again and with my limited skill level it starts to lose time against the Alfa. Both cars could use a little more downforce at 600PP. Alfa is understeering mid corner, Alpine is oversteering at braking which can look cool if you know what you are doing (i don't).

Clubman Cup+ (550PP only):
A nice selection of events for 550PP cars are: High Speed Ring, Tsukuba and Tokyo Central.
High Speed Ring:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 4:14,8 best lap: 1:21:5
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 4:14,7 best lap: 1:21:2
Tsukuba:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 5:23,8 best lap: 1:03:4
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 5:26,8 best lap: 1:03:6 (only 4th place!)
Tokyo Central:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 7:26,1 best lap: 1:28:0
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 7:24,6 best lap: 1:27:5

Both transmissions where set a bit too short for High Speed Ring, but it shouldn't matter much. Alfa is much better at the technical Tsukuba Circuit when you have to steer around those AI cars. Alpine was a pleasure at Tokyo Central.

After initially i liked the Alfa more at Tsukuba i would go with the Alpine for faster, flowing tracks. Also, it has 7 gears vs. the Alfa's 6.

Do what you like with the info. I can't motivate myself for other things you can do in GT7 by now, so i will do little Track/Event/Car tests like this one. Maybe i'll make a video. The next idea is already laid out:

 

[skydragon49]

@KAlex122 nice job!!!

If I may suggest, test those 2 cars at Nurburgring in the Clubman 600 event. I've done that and I had a good time.

I liked the Alpine more at first, but after driving the 4C for a while I guess I like the italian car more. The Alpine is such a nice and correct and save drive. The Alfa I feel more I can throw it in the corners and hope it sticks. Meaning, it's more fun to drive.

 

[kiseca]

Nice match up and test. I'd be happy to read more of them if you continue. It's a nice format.

 

[Alex p.]

Alfa vs. Alpine // Red vs. Blue // Italy vs. France

View attachment 1379576

Hi, i did a little test with the Alfa 4C '14 and the seemingly relatively similar Alpine A110 '17.
(I'm not the greatest driver, would be DR:B is i was still online and i'm golding a bit more than half of the online Time trials. If a car is slow i can be relatively consistent.)

Both are two little MR cars, lightweight and in my eyes pretty to look at. Who wouldn't like one of these in there real life garage?

I did my testing at Tsukuba (stock + 550PP + 600PP) and then branched out to use those cars at the 550PP events of the Clubman Cup+.

Tsukuba - stock settings, SH tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 530PP, 175kW@6000rpm, 350Nm@2000rpm, 950Kg ---> PB: 1:04,239 Optimum: 1:04,135
Alpine A110, 528PP, 185kW@6000rpm, 320Nm@2000rpm, 1.103Kg ---> PB: 1:04,395 Optimum: 1:04,107

Tsukuba - 550PP, SH tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 550PP, 190kW@6100rpm, 357Nm@4100rpm, 954Kg ---> PB: 1:02,924 Optimum: 1:02,836
Alpine A110, 550PP, 208kW@6200rpm, 347Nm@5100rpm, 1.106Kg ---> PB: 1:02,958 Optimum: 1:02,783
View attachment 1379578
View attachment 1379579

Tsukuba - 600PP, SM tires:
Alfa Romeo 4C, 600PP, 233kW@6000rpm, 426Nm@4100rpm, 953Kg ---> PB: 0:59,882 Optimum: 0:59,838
Alpine A110, 600PP, 233kW@6000rpm, 402Nm@5100rpm, 1.104Kg ---> PB: 1:00,457 Optimum: 1:00,352
View attachment 1379580
View attachment 1379581

First Conclusion:
The Alfa 4C at stock settings drives superb. Very smooth ride, feels like a very planted FR car. The Alpine is much more all over the place and drives like a typical GT MR car.
At 550PP i tried a custom suspension with pretty standard/medium settings. Both feel relatively close to each other.
At 600PP the bad habits of the Alpine come out again and with my limited skill level it starts to lose time against the Alfa. Both cars could use a little more downforce at 600PP. Alfa is understeering mid corner, Alpine is oversteering at braking which can look cool if you know what you are doing (i don't).

Clubman Cup+ (550PP only):
A nice selection of events for 550PP cars are: High Speed Ring, Tsukuba and Tokyo Central.
High Speed Ring:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 4:14,8 best lap: 1:21:5
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 4:14,7 best lap: 1:21:2
Tsukuba:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 5:23,8 best lap: 1:03:4
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 5:26,8 best lap: 1:03:6 (only 4th place!)
Tokyo Central:
Alfa 4C ---> race time: 7:26,1 best lap: 1:28:0
Alpine A110 ---> race time: 7:24,6 best lap: 1:27:5

Both transmissions where set a bit too short for High Speed Ring, but it shouldn't matter much. Alfa is much better at the technical Tsukuba Circuit when you have to steer arount those AI cars. Alpine was a pleasure at Tokyo Central.

After initially i liked the Alfa more at Tsukuba i would go with the Alpine for faster, flowing tracks. Also, it has 7 gears vs. the Alfa's 6.

Do what you like with the info. I can't motivate myself for other things you can do in GT7 by now, so i will do little Track/Event/Car tests like this one. Maybe i'll make a video. The next idea is already laid out:

View attachment 1379584

Nice idea. I've done dozens of such tests in video form with GT Sport and GT 7. And I actually did test those 4 beemers against each other. Maybe my comparisons will inspire you somewhat:





Looking forward to more of your comparisons btw.

 

[KAlex122]

Thanks for your contribution. Everyone is invited to compare times, share better tunes of the tested cars and so on.

Before i can share the Test of the 4 BMW M3 I have the data for another comparison.

I am not really into US cars but i used kudosprime to look for 3 relatively PP-close modern musclecars that everybody knows. This is what came out:

Stock they are all in the ~570PP range with the Shelby being the lowest PP value.

Where to test american cars? I guess Watkins Glen sounds good. The short circuit cut out some corners which would have made it very hard for me to be (a little) consistent.

Stock:
Ford Shelby GT350R: 1:18,311
Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe '06: 1:18,706
Chevrolet Corvette C7: 1:18,671

I was surprised that the heavy Shelby felt pretty good on brakes and cornering. It was the fastest although it lacked some PP points. The Viper felt stable but a bit heavy and the Corvette was a bit skiddish on exit and not that good on brakes although being the most lightweight.

600PP:

Shelby: 1:16,802
Viper: 1:16,262
Corvette: 1:16,853

Shelby felt ok again. Corvette still a bit unstable for a not-that-gifted driver. Viper got less understeer and less of that heavy feeling.

I completely forgot that there where 700PP events for american cars and even the Pan-American championship is 700PP. So i had to test the 600PP cars on a WTC600 event. To stay in the US i thought Grand Valley was the right tarmac for that comparison.

Grand Valley Highway 600PP WTC600:
Shelby: 10:17,506
Viper: 10:14,727
Corvette: 10:19,665 (only 2. place)

Corvette still a bit loose and lacking a bit of power but manageable. Viper really planted and fast. Shelby felt good but I felt i had too many mistakes so i went again: 10:11,341 in a race with much less line-conflicting enemies. So, you see, a race will never be a perfect scientific example as there are too many variables but if you want some fun there and show the Lamborghini's and Japanese "imports" of this world what the modern US muscle can do in the WTC600 at Grand Valley, i would suggest, try the Viper and the Shelby. They are both nice there.

Once i get my M3 comparison out, I'll see what i can do with the muscle cars at the american 700PP events, maybe with sport soft tires. Next time i write more data, i promise to use some kind of embedded tables.

 

[skydragon49]

@KAlex122 I'd say Watskin Glenn is a good track to test USA cars, either the long or short version.

I used to keep a list of winners and their times at Mount Panorama though. There's an event there (American Clubman 700) with an AI driver with a Corvette C8 that does something similar to Mr. Gallo and his Alfa at Suzuka and Nurburgring. It's a fun event!

If I may say, that a look at that and test the american cars there.

Edit: that Shelby is one of those cars people underestimate, people should use it more. Also it is super cheap credits wise. 😅

 

[KAlex122]

Thanks, i want to identify the more interesting races of some event-series and take the cars to the test their. After getting the BMW M3s out i will come back to the more interesting models of the 3 tests to tune and race the suitable, more demanding events.

If somebody helps me identifying core events for roadcars I'll be happy (or sad, if something got too hard for me through updates) as it's a long time since i completed all the singleplayer stuff.

After that I'll go on with my next ideas for themed tests.

 

[S-car-Go]

I have a soft spot for the Alfa 4c, I modded it to within an inch of its life to do the 700pp race of turbo cars in the past and made a punchy car with lots of grip.
The Alpine on the hand comes alive when engine swapped a 250mph capable road car in those circumstances although it never has the grip to compete with group one and two cars but it can chase them down on circuits with long straights.

 

[skydragon49]

I've started a re-run on the events directory some time ago, looking for exactly that.

In my humble opinion I'd say the most interesting events would be:

European Clubman 600 at Nurburgring
European Clubman 600 at Suzuka
American Clubman 700 at Mount Panorama
Historic Sports Masters at Spa
Historic Sports Masters at Nurburgring
Hypercar parade at Kyoto

I haven't found a Japanese only race to run and test cars yet. Also, haven't re-run the Clubman + yet since those require some tuning which is something I'm still to get a better understanding yet.

 

[KAlex122]

I haven't found a Japanese only race to run and test cars yet.

Japanese Clubman Cup (550PP) and Japanese Championship (600PP) are nice ones.

Don't wait too long on the Clubman Cup+. Nice ones there too!

 

[KAlex122]

BMW M3 - The Generation Test - 89 / 97 / 03 / 07

This time you find the complete data- and timetable at the bottom of the posting.

Maybe i should have thought of a european hotlapping location like Nürburgring Short but it was Tsukuba again. I tested the 4 generations of M3s stock, 600PP with SM tires, 550PP with SH tires and the two oldest ones at 500PP with CS. I haven't downtuned the two newer ones to 500PP.

After Tsukuba i took all 4 cars @550PP to the European FR550 event at the Red Bull Ring and the 600PP versions to Brands Hatch from the European Clubman Cup events.

General findings:

The BMW colour Alpinweiß suits all of the cars.

The M3 '89 is a slidy boy. The '97 much less so, the '03 is super stable, even unter acceleration and the '07 even more, maybe even too much. I find the '03 the most pleasant but a bit more unstable the '97 is also fun and even more stable the '07 is a very reliable car.

It feels like you can experience 4 levels of driver aids and refinement with the 4 generations from old and unstable to modern and very easy to drive.

I won't post every tune of every car with every PP as this post is long enough but in the table at the end you'll find the weight, torque and power of every tune. Got screenshots if anyone is interested. Nothing special.

Performance on track:
The '89 seemed very slow at Tsukuba, a bit because of the gearbox which wasn't optimal for the short track. The '97 did better and the '03 and '07 where on par with the '03 having the slightly better end.

The big time differences from hotlapping Tsukuba didn't show at the races i chose. At the European FR550 event at the Red Bull Ring every car passed the leader in the 3rd to last corner, the left-right-accelerating corners before the last two right-handers. 1,2 seconds race time between the '89 model and the '07 are really nothing.

At the European Clubman Cup 600 at Brand Hatch, which is a relatively easy event, race time between the oldest and newest model are 2,6 seconds apart. Also not that much.

Though i have to say i would still choose the '03 model as an optimum and go one down to the '97 for a more lively experience or one up to the '07 for an even more stable car where you can put the power down very soon.

Before i go on to do the other (at least 9) ideas i have for testing somewhat similar or related cars, i will use the cars from the 3 tests i did up to now and identify "races of pleasure" (like suggested) and optimise tunes a bit for some 550/600/(700) PP events.

 

[KAlex122]

If anybody could post a tune for the Alpine A110, the Alfa 4c, the Shelby Mustang, Viper or any of the newer BMW M3s for the European Clubman Cup at the Nürburgring i would appreciate that. I'm really bad at the Nordschleife and can't win anymore. Only cars i got a win there lately was the Alfa 8C and the AMG 63C.

 

[Gorefast]

If anybody could post a tune for the Alpine A110, the Alfa 4c, the Shelby Mustang, Viper or any of the newer BMW M3s for the European Clubman Cup at the Nürburgring i would appreciate that. I'm really bad at the Nordschleife and can't win anymore. Only cars i got a win there lately was the Alfa 8C and the AMG 63C.

Nice thread and a pity that you aren't available for Titan racing at the moment. At time trials you are now out of reach for me. Have a nice day!

 

[KAlex122]

Nice thread and a pity that you aren't available for Titan racing at the moment. At time trials you are now out of reach for me. Have a nice day!

At the moment I'm not that competitive at Time Trials. Thought gold was possible at Laguna Seca but at the moment im @ 4,8%.

I hope I'll get to the Titans before the end of the decade.

 

[skydragon49]

If anybody could post a tune for the Alpine A110, the Alfa 4c, the Shelby Mustang, Viper or any of the newer BMW M3s for the European Clubman Cup at the Nürburgring i would appreciate that. I'm really bad at the Nordschleife and can't win anymore. Only cars i got a win there lately was the Alfa 8C and the AMG 63C.

I have done the Clubman 600 at Nurburgring with the Alpine and the 4C. I didn't have much of a tune, it was much more buying engine parts (not the permanent mods, only the removable ones), sports suspension and sports brakes (pads and kit).

They were around 615 - 620pp (before update 1:49) and they were capable of running close to the 15 mins total. Applying max downforce brought them under the 15 mins which should be enough to beat it in hard mode, though I always run on normal.

Edit 1 - they were always on SS tyres.

Edit 2 - for the other cars you mentioned I have equipped sport brakes, aero parts and sometimes a sport muffler to get a better sound. I like their stock behaviour too much.

 

[KAlex122]

Thanks. I'm trying to stay under 600PP on sports medium tires. I had a 15:01 in the Alfa without aero and was 6 seconds slower with some aero equiped.

Maybe only using sports brakes and suspension would give me back some PP for more power.

 

[KAlex122]

Thanks for your contribution. Everyone is invited to compare times, share better tunes of the tested cars and so on.

Before i can share the Test of the 4 BMW M3 I have the data for another comparison.

I am not really into US cars but i used kudosprime to look for 3 relatively PP-close modern musclecars that everybody knows. This is what came out:

View attachment 1380290
Stock they are all in the ~570PP range with the Shelby being the lowest PP value.

Where to test american cars? I guess Watkins Glen sounds good. The short circuit cut out some corners which would have made it very hard for me to be (a little) consistent.

Stock:
Ford Shelby GT350R: 1:18,311
Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe '06: 1:18,706
Chevrolet Corvette C7: 1:18,671

I was surprised that the heavy Shelby felt pretty good on brakes and cornering. It was the fastest although it lacked some PP points. The Viper felt stable but a bit heavy and the Corvette was a bit skiddish on exit and not that good on brakes although being the most lightweight.

600PP:
View attachment 1380295View attachment 1380296View attachment 1380297
Shelby: 1:16,802
Viper: 1:16,262
Corvette: 1:16,853

Shelby felt ok again. Corvette still a bit unstable for a not-that-gifted driver. Viper got less understeer and less of that heavy feeling.

I completely forgot that there where 700PP events for american cars and even the Pan-American championship is 700PP. So i had to test the 600PP cars on a WTC600 event. To stay in the US i thought Grand Valley was the right tarmac for that comparison.

Grand Valley Highway 600PP WTC600:
Shelby: 10:17,506
Viper: 10:14,727
Corvette: 10:19,665 (only 2. place)

Corvette still a bit loose and lacking a bit of power but manageable. Viper really planted and fast. Shelby felt good but I felt i had too many mistakes so i went again: 10:11,341 in a race with much less line-conflicting enemies. So, you see, a race will never be a perfect scientific example as there are too many variables but if you want some fun there and show the Lamborghini's and Japanese "imports" of this world what the modern US muscle can do in the WTC600 at Grand Valley, i would suggest, try the Viper and the Shelby. They are both nice there.

Once i get my M3 comparison out, I'll see what i can do with the muscle cars at the american 700PP events, maybe with sport soft tires. Next time i write more data, i promise to use some kind of embedded tables.

As planed, i did tune the 3 modern US-cars to 700PP to attend the American Clubman Cup. I stayed at Watkins Glen as a middle ground between the slow Laguna Seca and the fast High Speed Ring.

These 3 we are speaking of:

As i grew a bit more experienced in GT7 i often read the opinions of the fast guys that told us that abusing fast road cars with racing tires is a sin and these should be driven as intended with sports tires. So i did. At 700PP that meant sport soft tires and north of 500 kW of power. It was a handful or more...

SS tires @Watkins Glen 5 laps American Clubman Cup 700

Ford Shelby	9:30
Dodge Viper	9:24
Corvette	9:33

still fun and you'll win 20 seconds in front of everyone else (hard difficulty) but i didn't feel "fast".

So i slapped on racing hard tires. Power fell to exactly 400 kW in the Corvette and a bit more in the other two cars. There was still some character in the cars and i felt enough "in control" to push.

RH tires @Watkins Glen 5 laps American Clubman Cup 700

Ford Shelby	9:08
Dodge Viper	9:07
Corvette	9:11

So... yeah. It's nice to know that the top guys can deliver in any setup but RH tires where the much better fit for my limited talent. I don't want to kill any character through slapping racing soft on anything that moves but racing hards will stay a healthy option for me on fast cars.

________________

With that in mind i took my Alfa and Alpine build from the first post and inserted sport soft tires instead of mediums in my 600PP tune for the European Clubman Cup event at the Nürburgring to tackle Gallo in his Alfa Giulia.

My best of the 2 cars on sports medium tires was a 15:01 in the Alfa 4C.

It definitely got better in the Alfa:

Not so much in the Alpine as i still can't connect to its behaviour: