Career Idea / New Economy Structure (for Gran Turismo "X")

[Foxiol]

I have an idea but is way too revolutionary...developers won´t get it...you all won´t get it...and I´ll be like a "crazy cat lady" all alone enjoying it in the darkness...So why not share it?


I´m going to put it in a "resumed" way (not so...):


I play racing simulators on PC, I also played some arcade but fun racing games with great concepts like "Race Driver Grid" (or just Grid, the first one) and an idea came to my mind with relates how all the economy system works for career mode.

My idea is by mixing 2 concepts:

1: PC simulators, the ones that you pay for the entire game, comes with all cars unlocked since day one, and same with the tracks. Then you only have to worry about which one you want to get, where to race, and then tune/refine it to have fun online or against AI.

2: Race Drive Grid (Grid) which had sponsors in career mode in where you could get more by winning races, and the better you choose from certain levels, you could make more money out of it. You could also contract a fellow AI racer to compete with you in the very same race against AI´s to get the money from him ("with his discount" per race) depending in which position he ended.
Even if you loose that race and if he won, you could get good money from that event. This was for me one of the best economy systems ever made in a racing game.


Now my idea for Gran Turismo "X" having in mind those 2 concepts all together:


Why not make all cars free from the beginning? That can remove the whole "grinding useless concept" (we all have a life outside the game right?) and it can let you play with the cars you really want for each event without having to use the cars you don´t want to use. Since the car selection is one of the biggest in the market...hell...why not? (I know you have answers for this but wait to see the rest)


How this can possibly work FFS? ("Foxiol you are like a crazy cat lady!!" )

Well, of course there will be limitations but not remarked by which specific cars you should use at any time just because you don´t have the money for it...Yet there will be certain classes and events that require and specific type of car for you to use as we have now (FF, MR, etc), and also categories (as open wheeler, road cars, race cars, GT, LMP, Rally, etc). So we won´t loose the variety of events by doing this.


How this can be structured and work? (You are not so crazy after all...)

Well my idea comes from the usual evolution of a racer career...You usually start from the bottom using less powerful cars (Go-Karts) and then start to evolve from that and even not having to use an specific structured career and can be divided in "trees".

For example, we all starting using Karts, then going to road cars RM (Race modified) as in amateur races similar to WTCC or BTCC, then advance by winning championships to actual BTCC. One step further will be coming to FIA GT, and then LMP.

A second tree can start with a higher "level" of racing or just again by the same (Karts) by instead of going in the same direction you may "choose" your path. Example, going from Karts to Skip Barber (open wheeler), Formula 3, Formula 2 and finally Formula 1 cars. (hopefully with an smart marketing division at PD we can have emulated cars using Formula Gran Turismo in different divisions/models/engines and characteristics. (but they are not as smart as me...)
Same if you wanna be at the end of your career a Rally driver.

This can give a more sense of what a Race Driver career actually is, but it doesn´t end right here.


You are probably wonder..."but Credits...Má money, where is it?" "I lost my sense at life, I can not live without capitalism!!"

Certainly you won´t because this is where the whole idea of "making sense" in a economy based game begins.

Pilots in real life need money to race, you need equipment, a car that you need to buy, a team of mechanics to fix the car and prepare it to race, you need sponsors to help you with your money and you need a manager to help you to get contracts and to actual race in different events and championships.

So my idea is that once you start with the bottom and again using the Go Karts as an example (Ayrton Senna started with Karts), the game can give you some starter money/credits by not just to buy your first Kart, instead you´ll need to pay to enter in a championship so you can race with it.

What?!?!? Exactly...you will pay to race and to advance in this game...the money you will get, will be for you to advance in the game, to make your way to enter in better and harder competitions. But at the same time following specific "trees" or "paths" depending in your own preferences or driving style. (though you will be able to replay the game, re-start your career, go back and choose/change your past/future, until you get to the top)

Money also can be spent as it is now, to get better parts for it, cosmetics, tuning, Race Modifications, repair the car, even why not add a fuel economy system per race? (maybe I´m getting to the actual "Human Drama" that Kaz still has to show...)

Also "a virtual manager" can be added to the game to help you through the career (similar to what other games have) and also you can be that "virtual manager" bringing back B-Spec and have not just one pilot under your hands, but more pilots. (this came right now to my head and made me remember of Gran Turismo 4 B-Spec, it was cool to control 3 AI´s in a race to help you with the 24hr race (with the glorious FW option).


Going back to the economy, as I said...earn money by racing in championships, use it to advance to the "next level" following the paths you choose as a race driver/pilot, pay a virtual manager to find contracts/championships to you, be your manager and control a virtual team (A and B-Spec mix a la GT4?).
You decide how the career is going to be at the end of the day, by predefined trees/paths that let you choose which type of pilot you want to be.

I don´t forget drifters with actual drift championships and not aisled events in the middle of random races. Imagine a path like this, street races/RM cars in world circuits/Drift championship/Rally (add in between more types, change the beginning, the end...etc...this is just an example idea of what the career´s path could be)

This can also add more to what you really like, If you are a drifter and want to do more events of drift to get more money and such you can. And also why not add sub events/categories inside of the events having in mind the type of car...less HP drifters and high HP drift cars or Japanese Vs American Muscle cars battles.
There are concepts that you can find in tons of games and with the amount of cars Gran Turismo has, you can make tons of variety. (talking at you PD)


I know that maybe the concept or idea of not having to pay for the cars crashes with the whole idea of the economy system, but this is still a game...and a question must be asked (and read this because here is where all makes sense):

Would you prefer to have all cars unlocked for you so you can also go straight to the online and race like mad with the cars you want...(yet obligated to get credits so you can upgrade them, so therefore you are also forced to enter the career mode to make your cars better and get money/credits)?

I can also add the idea (so you won´t get mad at me at the end of this TL DR post) of having a separated economy for the online portion of the game, in where with an "event creator" you can customize your championships/leagues, and make money/credits there as well.

(Now there is a problem online, you can have a race with 12 laps...and earn 1200 credits...why not make a cap of credits per lap added to that race...500 credits per lap? That will encourage people to race for more laps...and also race more.)


As a final thought, if you are not agree with this (lot of people won´t be I know) we just add the need of buy the cars as usually, but keeping the whole economy/career system.

Some KEYS:

-No XP level system as of now...you make your own career depending in how you want to level up.

-PP system depends more of the category of the cars you are racing (no more Rally cars racing against a Corvette RM or a Muscle cars at Toscana...you can avoid that by restricting cars to categories and not just numbers)

-All cars at your disposal (or not) but restricted to category or event in where you are actually racing (as stated above avoiding unmatched cars for specific events with specific cars)

-Choose your path in a tree, different posibilities...end as a F1 driver, or as a Rally driver, an LMP Endurance racer, a Difter...Define what you really are.

-A/B-Spec manager system, contract a manager or be the manager, or even your own manager. (examples in real life...tons)

-No more grinding, no more life wasted into one thing that at the end of the day is just a game...you race more if you like racing. If a career mode well structured gives you fun and makes sense, you will also want to race more.




That´s all...I can come again and add more stuff...I was thinking about this for a while and all of this are just ideas that can be combined with others, add and delete what you don´t like as usually...

Just don´t hate...Poll added.


Peace.

 

[drag_izayoi]

Wow that's long

I've got an idea for money, it's exactly the same as the Formula One : You're paid every time you earn a point in championship, and as you progress, they are more races in championships, so you can get more points, and points value increase with the difficulty.

I hope this is understandable

 

[Foxiol]

Wow that's long

I've got an idea for money, it's exactly the same as the Formula One : You're paid every time you earn a point in championship, and as you progress, they are more races in championships, so you can get more points, and points value increase with the difficulty.

I hope this is understandable

That can be added to the whole system as well. That´s why I made this thread...from my idea/concept, we can remove stuff, mix, or delete what it won´t work and make a great one.

Thanks, if you read the whole thing.

(It doesn´t take so long to read but people see that and goes away...)

 

[Tenacious D]

Something this comprehensive needs a big post. Reading stuff like this is fun.

Unfortunately it's also time consuming, gonna get in some quality time with GT6, so I'll be back to participate in this later.

 

[magburner]

Very interesting concepts. PD could turn the game on its head by removing the economy, and turning the game into a meritocracy. Instead of racing to earn money, you practice to achieve grades. Those grades are structured according to the licence tests of old, with better cars, and races available to those with higher grades. The kicker is too that instead of using the seasonals as races that are not linked to the game in any meaningful way, the seasonals become recurring licence tests that you have to attain, to stay at the grade that you are at. This form of progression and testing would raise overall driver skill levels, and add an incentive to reach further into the game.

The economy does not have to completely disappear, though, as you have stated, the money could be used to service vehicles, purchase car parts, and enter races,and if PD intoduced an auction house system, for buying customised cars from other players.

 

[HuskyGT]

Cool idea.

However, why don't they bring things back how they were in the first four games? It worked well. Especially in GT4. GT4's economy and prize system is probably what made me play that game for so many years without getting bored at all.

 

[Foxiol]

Thank you @magburner to take your time and read all that. And yeah you are right...By using this "method" you can give people a real incentive to play the game...but the real thing is the driving itself...that is what should make you want to play the game...not collecting cars. That´s why an economy should not be the main reason to play the game...by giving the cars to you but "blocking" them in the sense of you need certain licences or let´s call it permissions in advance depending in what you wanna do...it makes the whole aspect more interesting.

At least for me.

The auction house could be great too. You can get pre-customized cars and such prepared by the community and such. (sharing setups through cars more or less)

@HuskyGT, yeah but for example GT4 took ages to finish it and people don´t want to live for the game and its certain economy...you should try to give them incentives in the way of..."you want to race with these type of cars (plural) you should do this and that...then you can do it".

People will play the career not just because there are events in it.

That´s my point of making it that way...racing with the actual cars you want and the style you really want as the great ending of it.

 

[Earth]

I like alot of it

However, I dont see the need to make all cars available day 1. A better, higher paying economy along with better prize cars for every event will take care of that. Having to buy cars can be used as motivation to compete in and finish races. PC sims usually make all cars free because theres a tiny amount to start with, and theres little or no career mode to speak of. When your asking someone to invest 100+ hours into a career mode, they need motivation and a sense of progression.

Ive debated many people over this before and they say you dont need motivation to want to race. Why not give extra motivation? In the next few paragraphs Im going to explain how all cars needed to progress through the game should be available as prize cars. That way its possible to progress through the game while spending very few credits on cars. This way you can save up easier for cars you want to add to your stable.

I like the idea of branching career paths, but instead of making all cars instantly available for them, why not make the car needed for the next leg in the career the prize car from the championship prior? For example, if the FIA GT is the last championship before the WEC Le Mans championship, then the prize car for the FIA GT championship should be an Audi R18 prototype so your ready to go.

I know GT has become too much of a car collecting simulator, but it does need to keep a bit of that in the formula. Just make it where you can get rich faster either through sponsors or credits won in races. Also make the prize cars better. I remember older GT games where championships gave out Le mans prototypes as prize cars. That doesnt happen anymore. Its an awful gameplay mechanic by PD to artificially increase gameplay length and to make extremely overpriced credit DLC more attractive.

 

[Foxiol]

I like a lot of it.

I like the idea of branching career paths, but instead of making all cars instantly available for them, why not make the car needed for the next leg in the career the prize car from the championship prior? For example, if the FIA GT is the last championship before the WEC Le Mans championship, then the prize car for the FIA GT championship should be an Audi R18 prototype so your ready to go.

Agreed with this, I was thinking to put that as well but forgot it...that´s why we need the "community help" to add/remove stuff from here...I made the concept, then it can be modified with more ideas.


Also this happens in a PC game called GTR2 (one of the bests and fun racing simulators with a great AI), it has licence tests as in GT4 with specific FIA GT cars (because the game is all about FIA GT, it is the official game actually), then you by racing in different cups and championships, you unlock some cars and tracks which are locked in the game once you start. Also licences unlock content as well.

The good thing about it is that you can add cars through mods from different categories.

PD is suitable for this type of game because of the amount of cars that comes with it. Also as I said if we prefer to keep the current way to get cars...it can also work with the whole economy without sacrifice features.

 

[FishHunters]

Can't get beyond all cars "free" from the beginning. That's part of the "glamour" of GT earning cars. Its sorta an appreciation for what you've accomplished. If I have to save for a car (reasonalbe time frame) to get it, makes it that much more rewarding or disappointing.

 

[Snaeper]

I really like this idea. Develop a career around how an actual racing driver has to advance.

Start at the bottom, the better you do, the more money you make, the more opportunities become available to you the higher up you go and the better.

For example, you could finish 4th in a Championship and that would give you the money and/or opportunity to race in a back-of-the-grid car in the next championship. So you weigh your options: Do you race the faster car that's slower in class? Or do you go back and try to win your championship you just completed to get access to a faster car, etc.

But then you'd basically be throwing tuning and customization out the window, as well as car ownership.

 

[Foxiol]

I really like this idea. Develop a career around how an actual racing driver has to advance.
....
But then you'd basically be throwing tuning and customization out the window, as well as car ownership.

Not exactly, because as happens now inside the championships in GT6 where you can´t get out to change the car, you still can have the customization if you can´t win the races because of the opponents.
For example if you lost the first race, then in the middle you can customize or "fix/tune" that specific car that you are driving.
So it will be needed.

Also if you think about it, having all cars available doesn´t take out "ownership" at all because as usually happens, you are going to drive and tune the cars that you really like...Same if you pay for them...cars are there but you choose which one to buy...same if they are just there. (I have mixed feelings with my own ideas about that though, as other guys said it is good to have the need to buy the cars you want...you can have that sense of "property" as I prefer to call instead of "ownership").
Ownership is there because all cars will be yours...you just choose the ones you really like...you can´t play with all at the same time if you know what I mean.

It throws away the sense of having your own collection of cars. (Jay Leno will be sad...)

Still as I said before is just a concept and the ideas as a whole can make a great one, if people prefer to buy the cars that can be there as well.
Then a re-structure of the career without changing the sense of advance as a real pilot can be there...but the economy should be similar to my example, paying for everything, winning more with sponsorships, managing a team...etc.
I should explain that idea better but I don´t want to make a book here since not so much people will come to read this..

Thank you to read all that and contribute.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Good idea. But we would only have race cars in the game. I like this concept, but there should be more routes that you can take once you have finished the carts. Route not with just race cars but street cars as well.

Great idea, if PD could work something out with this it would awesome.

 

[ironman44321]

I really like your idea for A-spec. I would personally change a couple of things though.

I wouldn't make all of the cars free. I'd make them all available in Arcade mode and allow you to use arcade mode cars online. That way people who don't have a ton of time to put into the game can still use all of the cars even online but it doesn't take away from the collecting and owning the cars that some people really love. I should add that I think they should re-do how the pricing is done. I don't see how any car should cost 20 million credits.

I also think it would be a good idea if the game gave you the option to either use one of your own cars to do the events or use a recommended car so you don't need to spend a ton of money buying cars just for A-spec.

 

[MrDrWatson]

I would prefer to have all cars available in Arcade and Online mode, you could tune them but you couldn't buy parts from them.
Basically how Forza 4 had. I could race with friends any car available in the game and, when playing alone, have a nice career mode where I would start from bottom, purchasing cars and parts.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

I would not want all the car available right at the start, it would get too boring too quickly. I would much rather have to work hard to earn my cars.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Isn't that what Project CARs is?

 

[GordonS]

Nice concept, but not very granturismo in my opinion.
Reading that all helped me quickly remember why I love The Real Driving Simulator so much: I don't have to be a race driver. Just only a driver and a car nut if I want. But at the same time, in some fluid way, the game manages to provide us something from almost every branch of automotive world.

 

[zotobom]

Sorry,but definitley not. Some of the main pleasures of GT is finally purchasing that awesome car,or trying to get all the cars. If GT would implement this,I would probably not buy it.

 

[NICKname]

Sorry,but definitley not. Some of the main pleasures of GT is finally purchasing that awesome car,or trying to get all the cars. If GT would implement this,I would probably not buy it.

This. The economy just needs some tweaking, that's all. If PD wants to make the next TOCA Race Driver, they should, but not instead of Gran Turismo.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

It's a nice idea Foxiol, but it doesn't really fit in with Gran Turismo, the game about anonymous rich playboy-carnuts who race, buy cars, tune cars and race some more so they can fill their hangars with cars.
Some aspects of this probably should make their way into Gran Turismo, definitely start professional racing with karts, all cars unlocked by default in Arcade/Online. However, I don't see being sponsored by an energy drink to race in a car that your team borrowed so you can earn enough recognition to race in a higher series and maintain a stable career as something that I would want to replace what I know and love about GT.

 

[Lain]

I like earning credits and then buying a car that is mine.

Having all the cars available for use at the start of the game completely evaporates any sense of ownership. IMHO, GT's fine as-is. The only thing I think it could use is more events so that the "grind" isn't so monotonous, and perhaps improved payouts.

 

[Lain]

(accidental double post)

 

[magburner]

Having all the cars available for use at the start of the game completely evaporates any sense of ownership. IMHO, GT's fine as-is. The only thing I think it could use is more events so that the "grind" isn't so monotonous, and perhaps improved payouts.[/quote]

In an earlier post, I suggested that Gran Turismo became a meritocracy. In the context of the game, your skill could be your currency, and any cars earned in that manner would feel as they were owned, because you had to work on your driving technique to acquire them.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Maybe after completing all the races, all the cars can be bought for free? Similar to Midnight Club LA

 

[Lain]

In an earlier post, I suggested that Gran Turismo became a meritocracy. In the context of the game, your skill could be your currency, and any cars earned in that manner would feel as they were owned, because you had to work on your driving technique to acquire them.

That'd probably make the grind worse for the vast majority of GT players out there, since most are quite unskilled.

 

[Fogerty_Jr]

 

[magburner]

That'd probably make the grind worse for the vast majority of GT players out there, since most are quite unskilled.

Perhaps, but the challenges could be scaled in difficulty. They need to make Gran Turimso more difficult. The games reputation was built on how its no nonsense approach to cheats and difficulty. Nowadays, the game is a convoluted mess of aids and glitches, where it is difficult to fathom the quality of an online grid.

 

[JTB10000]

It's pretty spaced out and easy to read if you ask me.

 

[Foxiol]

It's pretty spaced out and easy to read if you ask me.

Is hard to find a little bit of respect in this age, mostly over the internet.

Thank you, I took my time to make it easy and funny/entertained to read so the people who hates to read too much can read it. Writing it took more time than reading it for sure.