Cars To Buy, or how I learned to stop worrying and buy the money pit.

[Tornado]

So my attempts to be dissuaded from buying a luxury car in the Infield were less than successful ("Talk me out of it" "Seems like a great idea" "..."), so now I take it to you, the general GTP public. Going to get a car by the end of this month. It's becoming increasingly impractical to borrow my parents' cars, and I refuse to spend another cent on getting the Blazer running again. And hell, I want something nice, since why not. Heated leather seats and wood and a nice audio system out of the box, so I don't have to screw around with any of that stuff. I want a V8, and I'm not particularly fussed about stick or slushbox (leaning towards the latter, though). I want sporty-ish luxury rather than DeVille-esque yacthiness. I want to spend about 7 on it, too; though I'd stretch it to 8 if need be.



The contenders:

"The One I want."
​

Pros:

• OMG have you ever heard one of these at full tilt?
• Pretty. Very pretty. By a wide margin the best looking car I think Cadillac ever built
  
• Pretty much every one for sale is loaded or damn close, because the STS itself was sold like that.
• Parts are more plentiful/cheaper than contemporaries, as is the car itself
  
• I know where to go to get information about them if need be
• Filled with lots of cool gimmicky things. I love cool gimmicky things.
• Runs on Regular instead of Premium
• Not a DeVille.

Cons:

• The cow says "Mooooo." The Head Gasket says "HAAAAABOOOOM." The obscenely complex suspension says "Crunch." Hence why I'm looking only at ones 2002 and newer when GM fixed most of that up (head gasket fix in 2000, Magnaride replacing CVRSS in 2002), which is a problem because they only made the STS to 2003.
  
• Actually installing parts sounds obscenely difficult/expensive (drop the engine/front subframe out the bottom to work on it, like a Testarossa?!)
  
• Transmission is kinda crap in terms of programming, if it's anything like the one in the DeVille
  
• Cool gimmicky things break
• Some parts bin parts where there really shouldn't be
• My love of them since I first saw them probably clouding my judgement

"The One I Probably Can't Afford"
​

Pros:

• The gold standard of the segment
• Can be had with a stick if I decide I do want one
• Actually have driven one before
  
• In all honesty the best car here

Cons:

• Assuming it will be more expensive, much more, to service
• Most of the ones in the price range have lots more miles than I'm thinking are worth it
• Don't even know where I would go to have it worked on. I'm assuming Rochester.
• My uncle had one of these, and at 100k pretty much everything stopped working at the same time.

"The One I Feel I Should Avoid"
​

Pros:

• Be amazed if any of the first owners were under 55.

Cons:

• As I understand it, Lincoln dealers loathe working on these, and they don't share much of anything with any other Ford
  
• So anonymous and bland that even I have to take pause
• Ones in my budget skew older and/or higher mileage than I'd like, as I want a 02+
  
• The sheer competence rather than any actual excelling features
• Doesn't really look like a luxury car inside. It looks like a Sable.
  
• Heard horror stories about the Jag equivalent

"The One I Should Probably Want Instead"
​

Pros:

• Toyota reliability and engineering
• Tend to be similarly loaded as the Seville
• Probably the nicest interior out of any of them
• Seem to be all over the place to buy

Cons:

• Mileage tends to skew higher than the Lincoln and Seville
• Prices seem to be randomly allotted, and unsure why
• Certain things about the styling turn me off

"The One That Intrigues Me"
​

Pros:

• 8/10s of the Seville experience, with the remaining 2/10s being the expensive things that break
• Occasionally available really cheap because it seems people don't realize how much they cost new
  
• Largely the same drivetrain as the Seville
• Not as expensive to maintain as a Seville

Cons:

• Rarely actually sold with the V8
  
• Often just as expensive as the Seville, but without all of the Seville's stuff
• More luxury inside than the Lincoln when you get the V8 one, but not really a luxury car
• A lot more parts bin stuff than the Seville (from the Bonneville mostly, as I understand it)
• More likely than the others to be on their 2nd/3rd owner than the others above.
  
• It's an Oldsmobile

So, what does the GTP community think? And am I missing any glaring entries in that segment from that time period? And what insight can be provided in this most likely idiotic venture?

 

[Bopop4]

The only one I'd even consider is the Lexus.

Reliability is the most important thing, so buying a BMW is laughable.

And you even pointed out all the issues with the American ones, so the only logical choice would be the one that doesn't break.

 

[Dennisch]

I'd still go with the STS. Best looking of the bunch. After that the Lincoln. The other 3 are just meh. They all will be money pits if things go wrong...

 

[Slash]

Bimmer. There's a few dealers around here that can work on them and I know of a few small times shops that won't screw you over and are very good if something went bad.

The Caddy and Linoln follow.

 

[Doog]

I can definitely vouch for the E39, and a bit for the GS, though my dad hasn't had his for a good seven years. The E39, from a practical standpoint, isn't good. Browse E39 forums, Youtube channels or independent fan sites and 80% of the stuff you see is "omg it won't start help plz". Finding one in acceptable condition (no weird interior wear, oxidation, or in need of serious repairs) is hard as hell. But then you drive it, and you start to forgive the unreliability. The steering is excellent for a car its size; nicely-weighted and direct. Handling is great, of course. The transmission always keeps you in the right gear and is willing to kick down quickly when you roll onto the throttle. The interior, if in good shape, is well-built and of nice quality. The seats, once you get them adjusted, are very comfortable. The six cylinder models make a sweet sound as you close in on redline.

You gotta stay on top of stuff, though. If you take a look at Bimmerfest, people tend to continue to run into the same issues all the time. You've gotta stay on top of maintenance, or at least have an idea of when you should fix whatever decided to give up the ghost this time. Being a German car, parts are expensive, of course. If you do find a good one with a stick shift, go for it. The stick holds up much better than the automatic they used in later E39s.

The Lexus, according to my dad, is responsive when you get on the gas and handles nicely (my dad is in no way a spirited driver, though). But being a Lexus, there's still a noticeable comfort over performance bias. The interior is of excellent quality, and is quite roomy. Every material is of a high standard. Just like E39s, finding a good one is difficult, though old Lexii are especially hard to find with reasonable mileage. In the four years my dad's had his LS430, the only non-wear item that's gone wrong are the taillights. If you want a stress-free luxury car, get the Lexus.

 

[Joey D]

The Aurora is one of those cars I love despite it probably not being very good at anything. The V8 in it also eventually went on to power the Shelby Series 1, so if you buy that car it's like owning a Series 1...right? I'd imagine finding parts for the 4.0 V8 wouldn't be that easy though as I don't think GM's used it since 2004 went the shot the brand in the face.

Other than that the Caddy has the coolest picture because it's snowing, which means that it probably does a really good job driving in poor weather. Also the engine is called a Northstar, which I like quite a bit.

Finally a buddy of mine had a LS, and the only two things I really remember about it was that it was really easy to get it sideways and anytime we ended up in a shaddy area of Detroit (so the whole city) he always had people want to know if they could buy it from him.

As you can probably see I don't know much about these cars, if it was my money though and I couldn't find an Aurora, I'd probably buy the Cadillac.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

How about a W210 or W211 E Class? I don't know anything about them, but they're likely quite reliable and seem to fit right into your criteria.

 

[Dennisch]

How about a W210 or W211 E Class? I don't know anything about them, but they're likely quite reliable and seem to fit right into your criteria.

I can tell you right now that you don't want either of those. The first one rust away when you look at it, and not only yhe body work. The second one is haunted by electrical ghosts. Not Mercs finest hour.

 

[Crash]

The BMW could potentially be a large money pit, especially if you plan on taking it to a reputable shop to work on issues, though different people have had different experiences with the E39.

To add to the extra old-people plush luxobarge, what about a Lexus LS?

 

[Azure Flare]

Of the cars listed there, I like the BMW best, Cadillac 2nd.

What about a Ford Crown Victoria?

 

[Slash]

If you're going to get a Vic, get it right and go 80s. 80s Vics never go out of style. Ever.

And 302. Just sayin'.

 

[Tornado]

A Crown Victoria is so far removed from being a luxury car that I might as well just buy a Neon.

To add to the extra old-people plush luxobarge, what about a Lexus LS?

It's hard enough finding GS430s in that price bracket. LS' are on a completely higher level.

How about a W210 or W211 E Class? I don't know anything about them, but they're likely quite reliable and seem to fit right into your criteria.

The only DaimlerChrysler-era product I'd even consider would be a 300M; and even that's because it would be so easy to fix when stuff started failing catastrophically.

If you're going to get a Vic, get it right and go 80s. 80s Vics never go out of style. Ever.

And 302. Just sayin'.

Do I look like Matlock to you?







And thanks guys for confirming what I expected to be the case with the Beamer. My uncle didn't hold on to his very long after he started running into problems with it; so I kinda figured.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I've had very different experiences with the E39 to be honest. The people I know who've had one only have some minor electrical quibbles and the engine and transmission are tip top, so long as they're serviced on time of course. Also AFAIK the V8s still have the same issue as the straight-6s in that the cooling system components are made of a plastic that becomes incredibly prone to breakage in the heat.

The examples I have driven were all tight as a drum, though that might be a testament to the owners who had them rather than general brand reliability.

EDIT: Of course being where I am I have zero experience on the American models and can only really speak for the Beemer or the Lexus, the latter of which is of course made out of witchcraft and unicorns apparently, such is the reliability even with somewhat neglected maintenance.

 

[Slash]

A Crown Victoria is so far removed from being a luxury car that I might as well just buy a Neon.

Do I look like Matlock to you?

Did you think I was being serious?


(Yeah, even I know it can be hard to tell with me )

 

[YSSMAN]

As the guy who has many well-known secrets, mid-size sedans of any designation are an odd fascination. I'll run through some thoughts, and add on some other ideas as I go.

RE: Cadillac Seville

Well, they made them for a while, so the good news is that there are a lot of donor parts all over for these things. But, I can't think of too many people I know that have had one that hasn't had problems. That being said, I don't know that many people who have had one, so that really can't be considered a reasonable sample size. The bad thing about Cadillacs of that era is that so many of the mechanical bits were specific to the car that it was ridiculously expensive to fix much of anything. Worse yet, it seems that many of the vehicles of that vintage are now owned by the lower classes who may not have treated them as well as they should have. I'd be careful with this one, see if they have the paperwork on it.

Recommendation: If you want a fancy, V8-powered, front-wheel-drive GM sedan, I'd go with the much later Bonneville GXP, Grand Prix GXP, or Chevrolet Impala SS.

RE: E39 BMW 5-Series

A while back when I was considering a 540i, I was told that overall the cars were fairly easy to maintain, but it was when two problems came up that you made need to consider selling a kidney. First, the VANOS system is dumb. Second, the clutch is apparently made of unobtanium. Third, the GM-made automatic transmissions seem to be iffy, but overall hold up okay. Buyer beware, I guess on the BMW. All of that being said, as you pointed out, it will be the best to drive. It will probably be the best to own. And lastly, it's arguably the best-looking of the bunch. Really, the best BMW, ever. So, you've got that going for you.

Recommendation: If you want German, it's the way to go. Unless you buy a W123. Maybe a W124. Mercs are cool, too.

RE: Lexus GS

Admission: I've been looking at GS300s for a while. The straight six is silky, yo, and overall Lexus put together a sharp package on this car. I've seen the same odd price fluctuations that you have. I've seen the same high mileage. But, overall, it seems like these cars run pretty much forever. Keep in mind this is back when Toyota still liked building cars, so, you really can't go wrong with them. In terms of years/trims, I seem to recall someone telling me that the MY01+ models are better to go with, especially with the sport package. Better handling, "manual" shifting. All that jazz. As far as the GS400 is concerned, well, it's the same 4.0L that was in the rest of the Toyota/Lexus lineup at the time, so I can't imagine it being all that much of a problem (particularly when considering the performance of LS models). I'd have the six-pot, though. It's like a four-door Supra, yo.

Recommendation: Secretly, it's the luxury barge I want. VIP style. Because reasons. This would be my choice.

RE: Lincoln LS

It's really the diamond in the rough for that era of mid-size luxury cars. Ford had a good chassis, a pretty good engine, and a pretty good transmission. But, I seem to recall that the reliability on the car wasn't so great, especially on the older models. The Lincoln also suffers from the same problem as the STS. The lower class folks have largely bought these things up and have neglected them significantly. If you find one, make sure it's been well taken care of. Later models had a lot of updates that were supposed to make them significantly better - no idea how that would effect the pricing.

Recommendation: Get a Cadillac CTS.

RE: Oldsmobile Aurora

I like this car. I think a lot of people really like this car. Honestly, I can't see anything wrong with it other than the fact that it had those special Northstar bits that would give it more trouble than what you might want to deal with later on. But, if more models had the same engine and transmission as damn near everything else at the time, then, well, it should largely be trouble free. It was a big car that was largely ahead of it's time. Even on a low-mileage model that's been well taken care of, I'd bet that you'd be able to get a pretty sweet deal. Thing is, was it really that much better than the Bonneville or Park Avenue?

Recommendation: Curious to see what comes of this one, but I'd lean more toward a Park Avenue. Especially the old Park Avenue Ultra models.

Other Stuff and Things

Well, I think you covered most of the bases here. As far as luxobarges are concerned in this era, it really depends on what kind of powertrain layout and engine that you'd want. Problem is that, when you're looking at entry-level luxury cars, you get a lot of weird "intermediate" models that cross a lot of lines. Even then, a lot of these efforts, while fairly competitive at the time, really didn't pan out the way that they wanted them to.

As much as the Lincoln LS and Cadillac CTS wanted to be competitors to the 5-series, they didn't turn out that well when it came to outright performance and reliability. I'd argue that, not only after those original models showed up, many of the higher trimmed models from lower-spec brands were significantly better. As great as an $8000 Lincoln LS may be, I think you'd get more for your money with an $8000 Mercury Milan from a few years later. Values on that car have not held up that well, I think you'd be able to find a pretty well-equipped model in your price range.

On the Lexus GS, I kinda lean toward some of the other Toyotas of the age as well. The early Toyota Avalon was a good-looking car, and seemed to have held up pretty well, too. Not that it would be as good to drive, but, you may be able to find more with low miles, and in better shape (old people are crazy). But even then, is an Avalon all that much greater than a well-appointed Toyota Camry XLE? Bigger, yes. Still has the same V6 and slushbox. If you really want a stick, you can find Camry SE models that way. That'd be cool. You know, just to say that you have a Camry V6, with a stick.

But really, there are a lot of Acura and Infiniti models missing from your list. They too suffered from the parts bin sharing that the GM models had, and their overall results were equally varied. The Acura RL seems to be a pretty good value from the era, using a lot of corporate parts from Honda that at least seem to be reliable. Thing is, they didn't sell many, so who knows if you'd even be able to find one. Same goes for the Acura TL, but as I noted above, the reliability seems to be very wonky on these cars. They like to eat transmissions, which probably seems to be why I almost never see late '90s and early '00 models on the road. There is of course the option of the Infiniti J30 too, but this is probably the worst example of badge engineering that there is. It's a goddamn Nissan Maxima LE, and nothing is going to change that. So, in that sense, you could probably get a J30 for next to nothing. But wouldn't you rather have the Maxima? BECAUSE 4DSC.

The glaring omission is of course anything from Mercedes, in particular the W124. It was the last of the outrageously over-engineered Benz models, and overall, these damn things seem to last forever. But, this is when Mercedes got their stuff together, and they seem far less common than the W123 predecessor. Just like any German car, well, they're easy to run until something breaks. Something will break. Then you'll wish you had a Japanese model with parts from everything else.

WORDS.

WORDS.

WORDS.

 

[Azure Flare]

Word.

 

[Doog]

A Crown Victoria is so far removed from being a luxury car that I might as well just buy a Neon.

What about the Town Car or Continental?

It's hard enough finding GS430s in that price bracket. LS' are on a completely higher level.

No LS400s around?

As the guy who has many well-known secrets, mid-size sedans of any designation are an odd fascination. I'll run through some thoughts, and add on some other ideas as I go.

*snip*

WORDS.

WORDS.

WORDS.

I believe you just won the thread.

 

[playnthru]

2006ish V-8 Impala is a nice car. I'm not sure it qualifies as a luxury car but has most all the amenities.

EDIT: When I read your wanted description it screams Jag XJ-R? Is it me..

 

[homeforsummer]

I was one of the ones who was no help at all in the infield by suggesting you buy the Cadillac, but the Lexus would certainly make me think twice here. Sorry to reduce this to "features I'd buy an entire car for" but I'm guessing you guys also got the cool electroluminescent dials that we did?

 

[Doog]

I was one of the ones who was no help at all in the infield by suggesting you buy the Cadillac, but the Lexus would certainly make me think twice here. Sorry to reduce this to "features I'd buy an entire car for" but I'm guessing you guys also got the cool electroluminescent dials that we did?

Every GS of that generation sold here had the Optitron gauge cluster. 👍

 

[Aquarelle]

Definitely the Lexus

 

[niky]

Just like any German car, well, they're easy to run until something breaks. Something will break. Then you'll wish you had a Japanese model with parts from everything else.

LIES.

THOSE CARS NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER BREAK.

EVER.










But if they do, *cough*, sucks to be you.

 

[Korza]

Every GS of that generation sold here had the Optitron gauge cluster. 👍

Every JZS160/161 made came with the EL gauges, not just the USDM GS'. 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

Every GS of that generation sold here had the Optitron gauge cluster. 👍

That'd be my decision made then

 

[AlvaroF]

In my opinion you should look at the Lexus and the BMW.

Both are reliable, can do lots of miles without a single issue. If something goes wrong with either one, well, you are both a Bad Luck Brian and poor because orginal parts are really expensive.

 

[Slash]

In my opinion you should look at the Lexus and the BMW.

Both are reliable, can do lots of miles without a single issue. If something goes wrong with either one, well, you are both a Bad Luck Brian and poor because orginal parts are really expensive.

That's why there is aftermarket replacements

 

[AlvaroF]

That's why there is aftermarket replacements

Precisely, but you need to choose them wisely or you'll end up with something that is really bad quality.

 

[Slash]

I agree there is both good and bad aftermarket. Depends on what exactly you are buying. Most aftermarket parts are equal too or superior to OEM these days.

 

[motortrend]

I'd go with either E39 or GS. the bimmers are Very reliable if maintaned right and te parts really are not more expensive than the others listed, especially if you search the right places and you do the work yourself. Can't go wrong with the GS really.

 

[JMoney]

I'd go with the Olds or the Lincoln- they are the best-designed of the bunch, as well as (probably) the cheapest. They won't be head-turners though, while the caddy or the beamer might be. Don't get the Lexus- Lexuses (or Lexi?) are excellent cars, but they are incredibly boring.